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Margin Calls For Btl? Any New Info..


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IN NI we have roughly 120,000 Social housing units (90,000 NIHE and the rest a plethora of HA's). Along side that we have 120,000 private Lets. There is reported to be 30,000 to 40,000 people on the waiting list (we all question how accurate that list is).

Therefore we need the private sector to take up the slack unless we can find a way of reducing the amount of people seeking social housing. At the moment it is very difficult to get a B2L mortgage in NI. If you go onto the general websites showing the list of available mortgages they disappear once you select the Northern Ireland option.

Yes you can try to limit the options so only the rich can become Landlords. I dont think the wealthy have any great track record here.

It's easy to get a BTL mortgage provided you have a 20% deposit. It's easier compared to resi as there are few earning restrictions. Salary multiples are meaningless. There's fewer BTL taking place because there's less of an demand not because the products aren't readily available.

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It's easy to get a BTL mortgage provided you have a 20% deposit. It's easier compared to resi as there are few earning restrictions. Salary multiples are meaningless. There's fewer BTL taking place because there's less of an demand not because the products aren't readily available.

which banks are actively doing BTL mortgages in NI ?

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Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for. If people dont want to become home owners then they need to have the option to rent at an affordable level. The proce of property has more to do with the supply of credit than the supply of houses but rents are not credit driven and there is a purer relationship between the demand and supply forces. If we limit the amount of B2L mortgages then we will eventually effect the supply of properties to rent. With my VI hat on I should welcome this. However, I don't think it is a good thing.

In a theoretical world where BTL lending did not exist, and we found ourselves in a situation where there was insufficient supply to cope with rental demand, i doubt the most efficient answer would be to invent BTL as a concept.

Better alternatives for society would be:

- More social housing built by government

- Lower house prices due to BLT not existing would increase the number of people wanting to become home owners rather than rent

- Higher rents lead to a greater desire for home ownership until the market reaches equilibrium.

- Rental yields reaching a level where non-leveraged property investment is appealing enough to take up any slack

- etc

Or any one of a dozen solutions better than lending money to individuals to act as a middle man and rent houses to others as a means to fund their retirement or enrich themselves.

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which banks are actively doing BTL mortgages in NI ?

Doesn't necessarily need to be a bank. Virgin money offer BtL for NI, along with mainland building societies, via mortgage brokers here. Some don't need proof of earnings, just Ltv and a sufficient rental income.

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Can you recommend a mortgage broker?

A family member has come into inheritance money and wants to do a buy to let

I have warned on all the pitfalls , and given info on yields etc etc

this is one of the things that has prompted me to wonder if people are starting to think about BTL again.

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Accord seem to be popular. Think that's more to do with broker commission than their products. The think about BTL compared to resi is more products are open to brokers when it comes to BTL. The opposite it true with resi.

Try looking around. Most brokers here seem tied to a particular network. Remember to look for whole of the market. Let them think you're going to take out their insurance products. They make big commission on these compared to the mortgage.

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thanks

tell me this is it better to go get a BTL mortgage in principle say for any property (that meets lending requirements) up to £X

or

to find a specific property first which ticks the boxes and then go looking to the likes of Accord/Virgin etc looking for a BTl mortgage for it after?

Edited by getdoon_weebobby
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Can you recommend a mortgage broker?

A family member has come into inheritance money and wants to do a buy to let

I have warned on all the pitfalls , and given info on yields etc etc

this is one of the things that has prompted me to wonder if people are starting to think about BTL again.

Couldn't recommend any broker in particular - 2buyornot2buy is right, you need an independent whole of market broker. There are a few BTL lenders still lending here. And none of the brokers are busy - get your relative to do a bit of home work first, familiarise themselves with the criteria for BTL and then approach a few brokers.

http://www.bmsolutions.co.uk/products/buytolet/

Most BTL criteria is available on line -

I don't think Accord are doing BTL in NI at the minute, but these things change daily.

Plenty of people are thinking about BTL now. Recently, several people, most of whom are generally sensible, savy people have been making enquiries in this area. Definitely an increase in interest, I agree. Dinner talk now seems to reverting to housing, although now it's 'how cheap houses are and BTL'

I do think that a form of rent control will be introduced, along with a plethora of terms and conditions for LL's to abide by. It may not be an 'easy' ride for the LL's of the future.

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thanks

tell me this is it better to go get a BTL mortgage in principle say for any property (that meets lending requirements) up to £X

or

to find a specific property first which ticks the boxes and then go looking to the likes of Accord/Virgin etc looking for a BTl mortgage for it after?

Is buying outright at auction an option? I would think that is where the best value houses are. At least then the renter's could be given a long term lease - let them have a family, maybe even own an animal and heaven forbid but they might even be able to decorate too...

:)

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Is buying outright at auction an option? I would think that is where the best value houses are. At least then the renter's could be given a long term lease - let them have a family, maybe even own an animal and heaven forbid but they might even be able to decorate too...

:)

Strangely most lenders dont like long term tenancy, not an issue if they buy outright though. Go to any broker,they'll all have the vested interests (based on commission), but you still get a print out I the deals available and then can pick through that.

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Strangely most lenders dont like long term tenancy, not an issue if they buy outright though. Go to any broker,they'll all have the vested interests (based on commission), but you still get a print out I the deals available and then can pick through that.

Lender's tend to view the current Rent Book Regulations (NI) 2007 where duration of a tenancy is set an initial 6 months as the maximum/only term rather than as intended as a minimum term. Only reason for this is a quick exit (repossession) for the lender. It is not in the tenant's interest and often not in the LL's either.

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In a theoretical world where BTL lending did not exist, and we found ourselves in a situation where there was insufficient supply to cope with rental demand, i doubt the most efficient answer would be to invent BTL as a concept.

Better alternatives for society would be:

- More social housing built by government

The government dosent build any more, they were terrible at. All social housing housing today is built by housing Associations who employ private sector firms.

- Lower house prices due to BLT not existing would increase the number of people wanting to become home owners rather than rent

If more people what to become home owners I would believe that that would be an upward pressure on prices.

- Higher rents lead to a greater desire for home ownership until the market reaches equilibrium.

agreed

- Rental yields reaching a level where non-leveraged property investment is appealing enough to take up any slack

explain non-levereged, is that BTL without any borrowings?

- etc

Or any one of a dozen solutions better than lending money to individuals to act as a middle man and rent houses to others as a means to fund their retirement or enrich themselves.

With my VI hat on I could say I would like there to be less rental properties, therefore pushing up rent and forcing people to look at the cheaper ownership option. However, people need the choice and there is a need for rental property in the housing system.

It is funny that it is always argued that it is cheaper to rent but then we always hear of the LL who own the rental property having their retirement funded by all the profit they are making.

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The government dosent build any more, they were terrible at. All social housing housing today is built by housing Associations who employ private sector firms.

If more people what to become home owners I would believe that that would be an upward pressure on prices.

agreed

explain non-levereged, is that BTL without any borrowings?

- etc

With my VI hat on I could say I would like there to be less rental properties, therefore pushing up rent and forcing people to look at the cheaper ownership option. However, people need the choice and there is a need for rental property in the housing system.

It is funny that it is always argued that it is cheaper to rent but then we always hear of the LL who own the rental property having their retirement funded by all the profit they are making.

There are strong arguments for BTL to be mortgage/loan free. However I agree that there needs to be a selection of choices for each circumstance, so getting rid of BTL is not an option. The problem from my perspective is that there is very little choice for young people (under 35 in particular).

Most families who rent privately do not want to be tenants. They see it as the only option open to them as they start independent family life's of their own. If we are going to be stranded with 1 in 5 families in the PRS then we need legislation to improve stability, affordability and to improve living conditions.

The attitudes of some LL's is appalling (I have just had a family described to me as 'unworthy' of having a tenancy because of housing benefit income)The adults both work - both on forced reduced hours and are now entitled to a bit of HB. And LL now asking for 2 months rent up front, rather than take a deposit! Money in his bank account rather than placed in TDS.

Rents are far too expensive - before BTL became the 'norm' they weren't. The BTL brigade brought high house prices and high rents with them. Tax payers are funding the retirement of BTL LL's through the ridiculous increase in HB paid to them - so they can make a profit on top of their mortgage payments :huh:

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The government dosent build any more, they were terrible at. All social housing housing today is built by housing Associations who employ private sector firms.

I have no problem with private investment in the market. HA (if well run) are a better alternative to BTL in my opinion, as are many other ways of providing rental stock.

If more people what to become home owners I would believe that that would be an upward pressure on prices.

Combined with the removal of BTL competition in the market perhaps not. In theory the house that would have been purchased by the BTL and rented out to someone priced out of the market will be bought by the person who would have otherwise rented, so no net change to demand.

explain non-levereged, is that BTL without any borrowings?

Yes - if you have the cash to buy the house outright then that investment choice should be open to you.

With my VI hat on I could say I would like there to be less rental properties, therefore pushing up rent and forcing people to look at the cheaper ownership option. However, people need the choice and there is a need for rental property in the housing system.

It is funny that it is always argued that it is cheaper to rent but then we always hear of the LL who own the rental property having their retirement funded by all the profit they are making.

Not arguing that everyone should be homeowners, of course some people choose to rent as that is a more suitable option for them. However I don't see how BTL is required in order to achieve the correct balance of properties available. I've proposed a few methods above but I'm sure there are others. The property world functioned perfectly well for rental properties in the pre-BTL era. Market forces generally do a good job with this sort of thing (if regulated correctly) although with property there can be issues with supply-side time lags I admit.

People who took out BTL Pre 2000 say I have no doubt made a pretty penny from their investment. Time will tell if it continues to be so profitable, I have my doubts. A lot depends on how much the government is prepared to subsidise the property market with low interest rates, FLS, etc. since BTL relies on capital gain to make their investment worthwhile.

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Is buying outright at auction an option? I would think that is where the best value houses are. At least then the renter's could be given a long term lease - let them have a family, maybe even own an animal and heaven forbid but they might even be able to decorate too...

:)

I wouldn't buy at a auction , you need make sure you do your homework... I know someone who lost his deposit 10 k because he hadn't told the bank he had a car loan out , and he couldn't get the money together in 2 weeks.

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I wouldn't buy at a auction , you need make sure you do your homework... I know someone who lost his deposit 10 k because he hadn't told the bank he had a car loan out , and he couldn't get the money together in 2 weeks.

Well, that was his fault rather the auction's. I certainly would buy that way - all over in minutes.

He should have auctioned the car in the meantime.

Edited by yadayada
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There are strong arguments for BTL to be mortgage/loan free. However I agree that there needs to be a selection of choices for each circumstance, so getting rid of BTL is not an option. The problem from my perspective is that there is very little choice for young people (under 35 in particular).

Most families who rent privately do not want to be tenants. They see it as the only option open to them as they start independent family life's of their own. If we are going to be stranded with 1 in 5 families in the PRS then we need legislation to improve stability, affordability and to improve living conditions.

The attitudes of some LL's is appalling (I have just had a family described to me as 'unworthy' of having a tenancy because of housing benefit income)The adults both work - both on forced reduced hours and are now entitled to a bit of HB. And LL now asking for 2 months rent up front, rather than take a deposit! Money in his bank account rather than placed in TDS.

Rents are far too expensive - before BTL became the 'norm' they weren't. The BTL brigade brought high house prices and high rents with them. Tax payers are funding the retirement of BTL LL's through the ridiculous increase in HB paid to them - so they can make a profit on top of their mortgage payments :huh:

Poople should vote poor LL's out with their feet. Dont use them. If a hotel was poor people would not go. However, it is only when demand is high that poor LL get away with it. I would not in any way defend them.

However, our record of successful regesteration has not been good and what are we trying to achieve. I understand there is a protective deposit scheme in place or shortly coming into place where the deposits are held by 'an agency'. This should stop abuse by LL of deposits.

To keep rents low we either have to increase the number of available properties or reduct the amount of people seeking them. Both of these are extreemly difficult to do and slow to do. What, I believe we dont want it to make the Private Rented sector more difficult to either remain in or to enter. At the moment 15% of our houses are Private Rented and the same is social rented.

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You realise something like 75% of all private tenancies here receive housing benefit. Few LLs get to be picky. Housing benefit set the rent in most areas.

I stand corrected but I am not sure if that is corrected. I know 67% of all social Rented Houses rent comes from HB. I would be very surprised is the Private sector is higher.

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I stand corrected but I am not sure if that is corrected. I know 67% of all social Rented Houses rent comes from HB. I would be very surprised is the Private sector is higher.

You are quite right. Apologies.

66% (two thirds) of the private rented sector claim housing benefit.

The vast majority.

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Not arguing that everyone should be homeowners, of course some people choose to rent as that is a more suitable option for them. However I don't see how BTL is required in order to achieve the correct balance of properties available. I've proposed a few methods above but I'm sure there are others. The property world functioned perfectly well for rental properties in the pre-BTL era. Market forces generally do a good job with this sort of thing (if regulated correctly) although with property there can be issues with supply-side time lags I admit.

People who took out BTL Pre 2000 say I have no doubt made a pretty penny from their investment. Time will tell if it continues to be so profitable, I have my doubts. A lot depends on how much the government is prepared to subsidise the property market with low interest rates, FLS, etc. since BTL relies on capital gain to make their investment worthwhile.

The government is not subsidising the housing market with low interest rates. Mortgages etc have long since unlocked from base rates. Builders looking to borrow new money are being charged 5% to 6% over Libor.

Home ownership, pre 2007 was around 70%. Its now closer to 60%. on a housing stock of 750,000 thats around 75,000. That is roughly the movement in houses from home ownership to private rented. If the BTL market, which makes up 125,000 houses in NI, wasn't there where would these people have moved to. The HA's can only build about 1,500 houses per year (and I think they include Co-ownership in that figure). they will never be able to provide what was needed.

Cash buying these houses is not a solution.

There never was a pre Private Rented era. pre ww2 the majority of people rented and in many towns the rich LL owned the majority of the stock.

I don't know what the correct balance is. I would like to see more people owning their own homes prior to their retirement. the houses and the finance both need to be available and affordable. I would like to see the reliance of Tax payers HB. It should be a safety net, not a way of life.

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Well, that was his fault rather the auction's. I certainly would buy that way - all over in minutes.

He should have auctioned the car in the meantime.

Don't think it was that easy .

Im sure it works for some, if you know what your doing ,or have good builder to sort out any problems as most them have .

Worst car I ever bought was at a auction, and that was only 2k .

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