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Jsa Sanctions At Record Levels

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Record number of JSA sanctions..

http://www.npi.org.u...s-really-tough/

We'll start off by looking at the numbers. In the decade to May 2010, the number of referrals sanctions fluctuated between 40,000 and 70,000 per month. On average, there were 60,000 referrals per month, of which around 25,000 would result in an actual sanction. Numbers rose in 2009, as the total number of people claiming JSA rose in the recession. There was then a further rise between May 2010 and August 2012, to an average of 125,000 referrals per month, of which around 65,000 resulted in a sanction.

Looking at these numbers in terms of the proportion of people claiming, the average in the years to May 2010, monthly referrals amounted to 6.3% of those receiving JSA, and actual sanctions 2.7%. Since then, referrals as a proportion of claimants have risen to 8.9%, with 4.3% receiving an actual sanction. So since 2010 there has been more than a doubling in the number of sanctions applied and a 50% increase in sanctions as a proportion of all JSA claimants. However you measure it, the post- 2010 regime was much stricter than the previous one.

The dip in 2011 coincides with the beginning of the Work Programme. It took some months for the Work Programme to become fully established, and to become a source of a significant number of sanctions. By the middle of last year around 50,000 people a month were referred for sanctions for not attending the Work Programme, around one third of which (around 15,000) received an actual sanction. Up to October last year, the number of people who found work through the Work Programme never reached this monthly level. More people were sanctioned for not attending the Work Programme than found work through it.

List of silly sanctions here

http://birminghamaga...upid-sanctions/

Edited by aSecureTenant

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That sounds like my period of unemployment in the early 90s! I had to attend meetings and perform tricks, which rather took a cut in the time I could have spent looking for a job! :blink:

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That sounds like my period of unemployment in the early 90s! I had to attend meetings and perform tricks, which rather took a cut in the time I could have spent looking for a job! :blink:

Most people I know have gone the "tax credit" route. No silly rules and almost as much money.

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Most people I know have gone the "tax credit" route. No silly rules and almost as much money.

That must be their intension, surely? Makes the figures look better.

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There aren't any jobs. 1,350 people applied for 16 jobs at my local Tesco Extra when it opened, over 800 were University graduates, Let's get those desperate people back into work before we start worrying about "scroungers"

Edited by Harry Monk

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That must be their intension, surely? Makes the figures look better.

That is the agenda 100% and that is from someone on the front line ( BTW it`s not me on the front line) the jobcenter have had a major push to get the skilled unemployed onto working tax credits

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I mentioned in another thread then when a Jobseeker has their benefit disallowed they are not included on the claimant register as they are not entitled to benefit. They are not appearing on the governments statistics and with a constant rotation of claimants on and off benefits the claimant count appears lower than it actually is.

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I've a borderline autistic cousin booted off of the sick and onto JSA a couple of years ago whose been repeatedly sanctioned. He's not "all there" (and I really don't mean that in a horrible way) so lord knows who they expect to employ him. He was fostered originally by my Aunt who can't afford to support him now (both his real parents were suicides). Poor sod was arrested for stealing food last week as he literally can't afford to live. Awful awful feeling he'll be pushed the way of his mum and dad.

Meanwhile the country celebrates the birth of a baby that will cost it tens of millions.

Edited by byron78

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I've a borderline autistic cousin booted off of the sick and onto JSA a couple of years ago whose been repeatedly sanctioned. He's not "all there" (and I really don't mean that in a horrible way) so lord knows who they expect to employ him. He was fostered originally by my Aunt who can't afford to support him now (both his real parents were suicides). Poor sod was arrested for stealing food last week as he literally can't afford to live. Awful awful feeling he'll be pushed the way of his mum and dad.

Meanwhile the country celebrates the birth of a baby that will cost it tens of millions.

Advise him to apply for what is called 'Hardship'. It is JSA paid at a reduced rate until the end of any sanction. He needs to pick up a form from the Jobcentre and fill it out. Fill out the form yourself if needs be.

He could also re-apply for ESA (the sick). Advise him to see his doctor and get a sick note. If he is booted off he should appeal the decision straight away.

If he stays on JSA, then each Jobcentre has what is called a Disability Employment Adviser. Advise him to have appointments with the DEA for extra help.

Edited by 98% Chimp

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Advise him to apply for what is called 'Hardship'. It is JSA paid at a reduced rate until the end of any sanction. He needs to pick up a form from the Jobcentre and fill it out. Fill out the form yourself if needs be.

He could also re-apply for ESA (the sick). Advise him to see his doctor and get a sick note. If he is booted off he should appeal the decision straight away.

If he stays on JSA, then each Jobcentre has what is called a Disability, Employment Adviser. Advise him to have appointments with the DEA for extra help.

He's on hardship.

You're right: it's a greatly reduced amount. It's also a loan he supposedly has to pay back (I suspect that will probably end up costing more in admin/chasing than the original loan amount).

His hardship payments also didn't kick for 2 weeks (hence the apparent need to steal to eat).

I'll advise him on the rest thank you. I'm guessing there are priority cases in all this and although he has problems there may be many that are more heavily disabled and worse off than him.

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This is a very sad situation. I guess one thing he needs is support to battle through the admin that does not really care about his situation and will do all they can to stop him claiming. The state should be there to help people like this but instead Mad George channels cash into his HelpToSell scheme in the hope of winning an election. What a sick world the Conservatives have created with their schoolboy antics ... 'workers not shirkers' is the Bullingdon boys chant in the playground.

We're all doing what we can - it's difficult as my auntie has fostered so many folk over the years (I have a lot of "cousins") and many others are also struggling. Unbelievably the maximum sanctions are apparently 3 years or something daft and the threat of these has already been bandied about.

I must admit I thought he was exaggerating his situation at first - it all seemed implausibly cruel and cack handed.

Implausibly cruel and cack handed is becoming rather synonymous with IDS and the benefit system at the moment unfortunately. They are in the vocation of whiping people, even though there are no (or at least extremely limited) vocations to whip them towards.

Yet by and large people think sanctions are "helping". They're just hiding people on JSA (as they don't appear as being on benefits when sanctioned) - an expensive sick fudge as far as I can make out.

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We're all doing what we can - it's difficult as my auntie has fostered so many folk over the years (I have a lot of "cousins") and many others are also struggling. Unbelievably the maximum sanctions are apparently 3 years or something daft and the threat of these has already been bandied about.

I must admit I thought he was exaggerating his situation at first - it all seemed implausibly cruel and cack handed.

Implausibly cruel and cack handed is becoming rather synonymous with IDS and the benefit system at the moment unfortunately. They are in the vocation of whiping people, even though there are no (or at least extremely limited) vocations to whip them towards.

Yet by and large people think sanctions are "helping". They're just hiding people on JSA (as they don't appear as being on benefits when sanctioned) - an expensive sick fudge as far as I can make out.

I can't see how sanctions get people to work? Rather they just wipe them off the face of the earth.

Mind you, my job centre (recently signed back on again) is now deathly quiet (central London) as they shifted all the long term unemployed out of the job centre and onto work programmes. One of the effects of this is that the advisors you see are now pleasant and helpful, and I am no longer treated like scum. Interesting - it's a bit like the streaming I wanted - but I am not sure what I think of it yet... as I don't agree with the likes of A4E etc

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I can't see how sanctions get people to work? Rather they just wipe them off the face of the earth.

Mind you, my job centre (recently signed back on again) is now deathly quiet (central London) as they shifted all the long term unemployed out of the job centre and onto work programmes. One of the effects of this is that the advisors you see are now pleasant and helpful, and I am no longer treated like scum. Interesting - it's a bit like the streaming I wanted - but I am not sure what I think of it yet... as I don't agree with the likes of A4E etc

Do people on work programs exist officially on the unemployed figures, or are they technically in education or some other fudge?

I have friends on such programs and am yet to hear anything positive. It just seems we have extra (private) layers to the unemployed onion now, which I would imagine makes it more expensive.

The employment firms impact on the unemployment figures has been spectacularly unspectacular so far.

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Do people on work programs exist officially on the unemployed figures, or are they technically in education or some other fudge?

I have friends on such programs and am yet to hear anything positive. It just seems we have extra (private) layers to the unemployed onion now, which I would imagine makes it more expensive.

The employment firms impact on the unemployment figures has been spectacularly unspectacular so far.

I just had a quick Google on that and it just isn't clear.

The thread on MSE about the work programme reports people who have been referred to the private providers and never contacted - so they have not had to sign on for months!

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I've a borderline autistic cousin booted off of the sick and onto JSA a couple of years ago whose been repeatedly sanctioned. He's not "all there" (and I really don't mean that in a horrible way) so lord knows who they expect to employ him. He was fostered originally by my Aunt who can't afford to support him now (both his real parents were suicides). Poor sod was arrested for stealing food last week as he literally can't afford to live. Awful awful feeling he'll be pushed the way of his mum and dad.

Meanwhile the country celebrates the birth of a baby that will cost it tens of millions.

It seems to be a common problem with people who have mental health issues. Hopefully they will get access to better representation in the future. Your cousin ought to reapply for ESA as it's been more than six months since his last application and should appeal the decision if he's found fit to work. Do you have a local advocacy service who could help him?

Fitness-for-work tests unfair on people with mental health problems, court says

Work capability assessments place those with mental health conditions at substantial disadvantage, judge concludes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/22/fitness-work-tests-mental-health-unfair

Edited by Solitaire

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The JSA work program and sanctions regime are the worst so called welfare reform since the system was created.The human misery it creates for no gain is shocking.In fact it costs the taxpayer billions for the abuse.

IDS like all DWP ministers before him (apart from Frank Field) have concentrated on the unemployed on JSA as the holy grail of cutting welfare.The truth is the amounts spend on JSA are too small as it is.Nobody getting JSA and no other benefits would choose not to work,at least not in any numbers.

Tax credits,housing and disability benefits are where the problem is.

I find it amazing that the government (and the last one) will treat people so badly yet hand out DLA worth £100s to families with children with made up ailments (behaviour) earning £30k,£40k£50k+.

They will hand out tax credits and housing benefit in some cases in 10s of thousands to people earning £25k+.

This was and is the great failing of the left in regards welfare.Because they failed to reform it and increased spending by such a huge amount with crazy schemes like tax credits they have created a monster the public want slaying.IDS like all before him has been a complete failure.Reform tax credits,housing and disability and use the massive savings to help people who are unemployed instead of thinking breaking people will somehow help them find work.

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Great comment on this article in the Telegraph where Unite have fallen for the Government propaganda hook line and sinker:

From what I see up here, the problem isn't "the unemployed" when it comes to benefit payouts.

Instead, it is the people who claim they are "self-employed", but *strangely* don't earn very much when it comes to their tax returns and then claim huge amounts of tax credits back (ie. ghost jobs).

It is the part-timers who refuse to take extra hours when they are offered because it will bugger up their tax credits.

It is the people who claim they are the "carer" for a child, despite the fact there is another full-time parent at home all day as well.

It is the people who have chain-children, so they never get into the position where there isn't a child under 18 in the house.

It is the teens who have a child, refuse to give the father's name, refuse to live with family, get their parents to claim they have thrown them out, all so they can get a council property near their mates and don't have to get up for work.

These people aren't the "unemployed" (not one of them will claim JSA, for example), nor are they "vulnerable". They, instead, are the gamers and scammers of the system. I know one mother who refused to live in one of her family's homes (yes, they owned a very nice house that was vacant) because the situation would affect her benefits too much.

To people who believe these people are in a minority, I can only say that you must live in very posh areas.

If you are "unemployed" in actual benefits terms, you are claiming JSA. The thing is ... you can't actually survive for long periods of time on JSA, even combined with LHA/HB and CTB. It is just not doable. And you have to sign on regularly.

The gamers know this, which is why you will tend to find they aren't actually claiming JSA at all. They are "self-employed", or "carers", or "full-time single parents" -- meaning, they are not classed as unemployed, nor does the welfare system expect their circumstances to change.

And that is where the serious money is going, not on someone who has just been made redundant.

Edited by Tonkers

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It is the part-timers who refuse to take extra hours when they are offered because it will bugger up their tax credits.

Have I misunderstood? Are they claiming that the above is the fault of the individual rather than the system?

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Have I misunderstood? Are they claiming that the above is the fault of the individual rather than the system?

It also implies they're earning more from the system doing this than they'd receive in JSA.

Not true.

I got £40 a week tax credits which got me off JSA (about £60 then) and HB (about £70), so a net saving of £90 a week for the state.

It also seems oblivious to the fact that part time workers who can't earn more for fear of losing tax credits are all parents (there are NO such restrictions for non parents) and there's a double edged sword here - they could work more and lose tax credits, but then the state would have to pay out even more for childcare.

Simplistic answer to a system that is anything but. Which is if course why Universal Credit will (is) fail) ing).

Edited by byron78

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How much would a guy on £21k before tax get in various benefits. Wife not working, 3 kids, renting a house for around £700 per month. (this is not me btw). would it financially be worth this guy working or not?

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There aren't any jobs. 1,350 people applied for 16 jobs at my local Tesco Extra when it opened, over 800 were University graduates, Let's get those desperate people back into work before we start worrying about "scroungers"

Because the system is designed to being a 'jobs worth' tick boxing game......so many jobs have to be applied for a week to get jsa benefits thus avoid suspension and a freeze on any benefits whatsoever, no food no nothing......therefore people apply for any job to get paid to eat and sleep.........employers therefore are inundated with applications many from people totally unsuited for the job, many who would not take the job.........its a numbers game, so they play it, they have no other choice. ;)

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The JSA work program and sanctions regime are the worst so called welfare reform since the system was created.The human misery it creates for no gain is shocking.In fact it costs the taxpayer billions for the abuse.

IDS like all DWP ministers before him (apart from Frank Field) have concentrated on the unemployed on JSA as the holy grail of cutting welfare.The truth is the amounts spend on JSA are too small as it is.Nobody getting JSA and no other benefits would choose not to work,at least not in any numbers.

Tax credits,housing and disability benefits are where the problem is.

I find it amazing that the government (and the last one) will treat people so badly yet hand out DLA worth £100s to families with children with made up ailments (behaviour) earning £30k,£40k£50k+.

They will hand out tax credits and housing benefit in some cases in 10s of thousands to people earning £25k+.

This was and is the great failing of the left in regards welfare.Because they failed to reform it and increased spending by such a huge amount with crazy schemes like tax credits they have created a monster the public want slaying.IDS like all before him has been a complete failure.Reform tax credits,housing and disability and use the massive savings to help people who are unemployed instead of thinking breaking people will somehow help them find work.

It has nothing to do with reducing welfare costs or getting the unemployed back into work. Its a means to crowd-please their right wing voting base. In monetary or political terms it costs them little compared with other options that do the same.

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How much would a guy on £21k before tax get in various benefits. Wife not working, 3 kids, renting a house for around £700 per month. (this is not me btw). would it financially be worth this guy working or not?

I don't know, but he should already be getting around 5K a year on top of his 21K salary in tax credits with 3 kids.

On the basis of that - yeah, he's probably way better off in work.

Edited by byron78

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I put the following into the benefits calc ... 25 hrs / week at £7 / hr, non working wife, 3 kids= wages £9k, housing benefit £15k, other benefits £15k ... so cash in hand of £39k ... so may be better if he did less hours to max out the benefits. Yes the country is MAD.

How does £700 a month = 15K then?

They wouldn't pay him twice his yearly rent - they'd pay slightly under his actual rent.

This country is mad, but not that mad (yet).

Also, he might get 15K HB if he lived in central London, but round here the top whack he'd get for 3 kids is under his current £700 a month.

In actual fact he'd get 9K + probably around 6K HB if he cut down his hours.

What are the other benefits that equal 15K here? He's already entitled to Child Tax Credits whilst working don't forget.

Edited by byron78

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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