The Ultimate Boomer

[The Knimbies who say No]

Acuarial tables says she's got 16.33 years left, a pessimistic 80.

Yes, and what's a quarter of a council tax bill for a house like that, £400? So a bill of £6k+ is in the offing now she has the green light not to pay, plus any of her mates that fancy doing likewise.

[gf3]

Just wondered how many people on here would be prepared to do what her and her husband did?

Buy a plot of land live in a caravan on site for five year doing a lot of the labouring for the house yourselves.

Personally I would rather waste my time on the internet.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

I agree with her.The local council charges in the UK are ridiculous.Why should she pay 75% of what a house with 4 working adults pays?.

Because she's living in a house that could house 4 working adults, while working adults have to share a 3 bed house between 6 of them?

[The Knimbies who say No]

Just wondered how many people on here would be prepared to do what her and her husband did?

Buy a plot of land live in a caravan on site for five year doing a lot of the labouring for the house yourselves.

Personally I would rather waste my time on the internet.

If plots were available at similar relative prices, youbetcha I would.

[olliegog]

Wouldn't like to criticise this lady too much, she is clearly slim, fit, and not relying on supplementary pension top ups, housing benefit and disability like many of her age.

However, for many young people, having just shy of a 10K income and a mortgage free home worth 250K would be dreamland. In her position would be a bit embarrassed complaining.....I suppose if you included imputed rent her real income would be about 20K tax free.

my bold

are you serious. Even a mortgage free home has costs - like council tax, insurances, utilities. Just because it is mortgage free does not make it FREE of cost. Of course it would not be dreamland for young people - lots of whom earn the average UK wage of £25k

and have their health and vigour to enjoy.

walk a mile in her shoes first. She is not a scrounger - she and her husband contributed to her current income (or at least while they paid NI and tax to support the then older generation and did it without the constant whinging and demonisation of the older generation which is now heard. )

rant over.

Edited July 18, 2013 by olliegog

[OnionTerror]

Yes, and what's a quarter of a council tax bill for a house like that, £400? So a bill of £6k+ is in the offing now she has the green light not to pay, plus any of her mates that fancy doing likewise.

Its going to open the flood gates, now its set a precedence...

[gf3]

If plots were available at similar relative prices, youbetcha I would.

So lets say the land cost everything they could afford and they built the house on the money they saved by living rent free in a caravan would you do it then?

[OurDayWillCome]

As I've looked into it, the ones most against it were younger non home owners. 18 years old and hit by a bill for £400ish, when some elderly woman in a 4-bed detached house she bought for next-to-nothing has only to pay £400ish as well.

Big fancy house = pay more. Not equalised on non home-owners sharing in rentals, hoping for house prices to come down, or those with smaller lower-value homes.

Local services paid by everyone makes local councils more accountable if everyone chips in. Regarding properties - tax them separately.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

So lets say the land cost everything they could afford and they built the house on the money they saved by living rent free in a caravan would you do it then?

Not if you also expect me to raise the children who will pay the taxes to look after everyone.

Although even 4 acres of agri land will be out of most peoples reach let alone with PP

(Assumes comments about 4 acres and no kids is correct)

[The Knimbies who say No]

So lets say the land cost everything they could afford and they built the house on the money they saved by living rent free in a caravan would you do it then?

We are talking hypotheticals of course. She and her man reportedly bought the plot in 1960 for £460, that's an (RPI adjusted) £9,300 today for a four-acre plot and planning permission was easy to come by.

Our lives have taken different paths, but I'll happily say that if a 4-acre plot was available for that sum with the overwhelming likelihood of planning being granted, I'd bite yer arm off for it. Caravan living with a pregnant wife might not be adviseable so I couldn't really compare like with like. I've often thought about self-build as it happens, architects are in the family and I like the idea of getting something exactly as you'd like it. But it's a non-starter for all but the most wealthy these days.

Long-term RPI series:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=CDKO&dataset=mm23&table-id=3.5

edit clarity.

Edited July 18, 2013 by cheeznbreed

[crashmonitor]

my bold

are you serious. Even a mortgage free home has costs - like council tax, insurances, utilities. Just because it is mortgage free does not make it FREE of cost. Of course it would not be dreamland for young people - lots of whom earn the average UK wage of £25k

and have their health and vigour to enjoy.

walk a mile in her shoes first. She is not a scrounger - she and her husband contributed to her current income (or at least while they paid NI and tax to support the then older generation and did it without the constant whinging and demonisation of the older generation which is now heard. )

rant over.

I'm mortgage free too, living in a very similar property and paying £160 per month council tax , so very aware of the costs of a homeowner( granted as a couple not single). Indeed I said she was no scrounger in the first paragraph, but didn't think her position warranted special dispensations from council tax as she was more fortunate than the majority of the population.

Someone in their twenties on an average wage of 25K, 18K after tax and 10K after rent would indeed figure they were in dreamland with the same disposable income after housing costs as this lady, a 250k mortgage free home, and a salary for life with a triple lock. and no fear of job loss.

Edited July 18, 2013 by crashmonitor

[Venger]

I was a younger non-home-owner, and benefited from the community charge.

Before it, we had the Rates. Not so bad in principle, but had reached the point where my 1-bed rented flat was costing twice as much as my colleagues nearby were paying for 3- and 4-bed houses.

Can't understand how, although not claiming it's not true.

Was it because your 1-bed flat was in zone 1? Bit of net research suggests the ratings system of the time needed reform because of discrepancies, but I'm not sure.

[Venger]

Ok so I see she's back in the current news because she's still moaning about the council tax, when she could sell and downsize, or take lodgers.

Sign around her neck. (About 19 hours ago) http://www.itv.com/n...ll-council-tax/

Even though in late 2012 a magistrate told her this.

"It's just not fair when you get lots of people in a property sharing the tax and the burden is left, let's say, to the very poor. "I don't mind going to prison, at least I'll get three good meals a day."

Magistrates told her to meet the district council and arrange payment.

Judith Palles-Clark, chair of the bench, said: "This should be paid straight off. If you do not do that we will make a liability order and ultimately a prison sentence."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...orfolk-19499969

[Jason]

I think her story is ******. Who in their right mind would sell your wedding and engagement rings to pay a bill when she had £16k in the bank! The story isn't right imo.

Secondly, when she pays when she dies the debt will accrue interest at 8%. She would also have to pay court costs too. Financially, It would be better to pay it now. ... hang on, she doesn't have kids so she's not bothered what happens when she dies. So why doesn't she go and get one of those loans where she sells to the bank, but can live there for the rest of her days; then she wouldn't have to worry about money for the remainder of her years.

Thirdly, what taxes are there in this country to encourage people with large houses to downsize? Council tax is the only one; yet some people want this abolished and based on individuals so they pay less. The mind boggles.

[porca misèria]

Can't understand how, although not claiming it's not true.

Was it because your 1-bed flat was in zone 1? Bit of net research suggests the ratings system of the time needed reform because of discrepancies, but I'm not sure.

What's zone 1? If you mean a London thing ... well, I was never rich enough to rent any flat in London, and I was out of there before any of this happened. This was Yorkshire

The reason for the higher rates was because the house had been re-rated when it was converted to flats. So £650, compared to my office-mate Mark's £300 for his 3-bed house, or my friends Tony&Jenny paying £350 for their 4-bed detached, all in the same part of town.

Or under £90 for the cottage I moved to later, in a cheaper part of town up on the edge of the moors. But by then the rates were gone, so it was only water rates where I gained.

[btl_hater]

I'm mortgage free too, living in a very similar property and paying £160 per month council tax , so very aware of the costs of a homeowner( granted as a couple not single). Indeed I said she was no scrounger in the first paragraph, but didn't think her position warranted special dispensations from council tax as she was more fortunate than the majority of the population.

Someone in their twenties on an average wage of 25K, 18K after tax and 10K after rent would indeed figure they were in dreamland with the same disposable income after housing costs as this lady, a 250k mortgage free home, and a salary for life with a triple lock. and no fear of job loss.

+1. Can't see the argument myself, of course the average wage worker would be better off to have this women's income and housing set up.

[gf3]

Ok so I see she's back in the current news because she's still moaning about the council tax, when she could sell and downsize, or take lodgers.

Sign around her neck. (About 19 hours ago) http://www.itv.com/n...ll-council-tax/

Even though in late 2012 a magistrate told her this.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...orfolk-19499969

Perhaps the house could be given to some one more deserving like.

Heather frost.

and with 4 acres of land her horse would have some where to go as well.

Personally if I want to get angry at something I will reserve my anger for people claiming housing benefit, working tax credit,familly tax credit child tax credit and disability payments.

The £16,000 she has saved would soon go if her oil fired boiler broke down or the roof leaked. It's not like she runs a car does her shopping on an electric bike.

If she built the house with her own fair hands she has more of a right to live there than any body else .

[Venger]

Jason's got it all bang on, especially the point on asking what pressures are on the elderly in larger family homes to downsize. Few, except repairs, but many have more than £16K in the bank, given wage inflation meant they could pay their mortgages off fast, allowing them to save for years.

Elderly guy I know of bought a semi in 1951/52 for £3,000. In 2009 he left it empty for 2 years, holding out for his painfully high asking price. Neighbours decided to take it upon themselves to mow his front lawn over the 2 years.. He'd already downsized to a new flat, many miles away at the coast, bought outright.

Finally he sold the semi to a young couple, £5K less than asking, who also had her mother help them buy it. With the mother moving in with them. Not ideal, and perhaps they'd have done it regardless more affordable house prices, but points to some of the sacrifices some younger 35 year old+ people have to make to buy a £295,000 semi in this market, when many older owners hogging family homes, and even have the gall to complain about council tax.

She's a serial complainer anyway, with her complaining about sound of a new bypass in another story I read on web last night.

Ok porca misèria', thanks for explanation. You escaped to Germany. I'd advise many younger people to run from the UK, go fugitive, if they brought in a new community charge today. Locking in the HPI on larger homes even more for older owners, and putting further burdens towards buying on house-sharing renters, or patient upsizers.

Not "would be", but "were". In my childhood there were indeed quite a few people living under the embankment. To say that was the only option for those not rich enough to buy is only a slight exaggeration when you look at options after 1977 and before the AST. Not so very different to my living conditions in 1983-5 (that is, until I escaped to Germany and rented a nice flat for the price of a slum room in an HMO back in Blighty).

By the time I was exposed to that London market in 1983,

• You did need to be pretty rich to get a mortgage, at least without BoMD.
• Council housing had long-since gone the way of the dinosaurs.
• Renting carried no rights at all: your legal status with a "license" was like the house-sitters known as "guardians" today, and the only landlords in the open market were at least borderline-gangster.
• HPI meant there was no end in sight

You've told us you were a homeowner, so you weren't exposed to the horrors of being excluded pre-AST.

[Venger]

Perhaps the house could be given to some one more deserving like.

Personally if I want to get angry at something I will reserve my anger for people claiming housing benefit, working tax credit,familly tax credit child tax credit and disability payments.

They are two entirely separate policy areas. Both which need policy changes. There's some talk of not giving further benefits, ceiling them, for claimants with more than 2 or 3 children in the future.

It seems like misdirection to give elderly June a pass on her council tax 'justifications' in a 4 bed family home and few pressures on her to downsize, by pointing to all the benefit claimants. Meanwhile those working trying to improve their own circumstances, saving towards buying a house, not wanting to put themselves at risk by taking a massive mortgage, long been pincered.

[olliegog]

I'm mortgage free too, living in a very similar property and paying £160 per month council tax , so very aware of the costs of a homeowner( granted as a couple not single). Indeed I said she was no scrounger in the first paragraph, but didn't think her position warranted special dispensations from council tax as she was more fortunate than the majority of the population.

Someone in their twenties on an average wage of 25K, 18K after tax and 10K after rent would indeed figure they were in dreamland with the same disposable income after housing costs as this lady, a 250k mortgage free home, and a salary for life with a triple lock. and no fear of job loss.

so how would a single person pay 8 k in rent (oh it is London prices again) - that is 650 pounds a month.

when I was in my twenties and starting out on a salary as a graduate of about £1000 a year I only only dream of a detached house and had to make do with a shared house or bedsit. it is only as the result of years of work, paying tax and NI that anyone gets to have the equivalent of a 250K house (of course that is a ridiculous amount for a house anyway)

the sense of entitlement is breathtaking - none of us were living the high life when we were in our twenties.

[Venger]

so how would a single person pay 8 k in rent (oh it is London prices again) - that is 650 pounds a month.

when I was in my twenties and starting out on a salary as a graduate of about £1000 a year I only only dream of a detached house and had to make do with a shared house or bedsit. it is only as the result of years of work, paying tax and NI that anyone gets to have the equivalent of a 250K house (of course that is a ridiculous amount for a house anyway)

the sense of entitlement is breathtaking - none of us were living the high life when we were in our twenties.

HPI helped many toward their £250K houses, with wage inflation too, making mortgages more manageable and, for many, to pay down the debt within a few years.

It's not 20s anymore anyway. It's people into their 30s priced way out of the market on even starter homes, stuck renting, house-sharing, or living with older relatives/parents.

I'm confused; hope you're not suggesting grads in their 30s who've waited for better housing value during the boom, have some massive sense of entitlement. Or even those in their 20s who look at starter homes as nearly impossible to afford, and ever trade up from. Entitlement. (Not including the dumber types who march to Help-To-Buy). Entitlement? Younger people are having even starter home basic dreams killed off. Well done younger people; you've graduated, got a good job, and can afford a terrace in Failsworth.

http://www.guardian....g-price-uk-home

Edited July 18, 2013 by Venger

[The Knimbies who say No]

so how would a single person pay 8 k in rent (oh it is London prices again) - that is 650 pounds a month.

when I was in my twenties and starting out on a salary as a graduate of about £1000 a year I only only dream of a detached house and had to make do with a shared house or bedsit. it is only as the result of years of work, paying tax and NI that anyone gets to have the equivalent of a 250K house (of course that is a ridiculous amount for a house anyway)

the sense of entitlement is breathtaking - none of us were living the high life when we were in our twenties.

Our household income is in the ninth decile, and a larger 3-bed semi in a smarter part of town costs between 4 and 5 times that income. I'm not talking about a couple of exclusive streets, I mean large, areas covering a third of the town. 4 bedder is typically 5-7 times, with some detached places appearing at 7 times. We are mid/late thirties, kid on the way. No debts or other financial strife in the past. I don't feel any particular sense of 'entitlement' per say, but is this is situation that is sustainable, desireable, condoneable?

Do you think this landscape can be ignored indefinitely in an era of declining real wages?

I'd love to know what your age/income was when you made your purchase(s). Why don't you do a virtual Rightmove tour of the places you've lived in to see what you'd pay now, and get a good idea of what your wage would be doing the same job as before.

Edited July 18, 2013 by cheeznbreed

[Pindar]

Life's tough when you live in a cable-car station.

[zugzwang]

Life's tough when you live in a cable-car station.

It's certainly got its ups and downs.

[gf3]

I'm confused; hope you're not suggesting grads in their 30s who've waited for better housing value during the boom, have some massive sense of entitlement.

Bit black and white if you don't mind me saying. To say that all grads have a sense of entitlement would be as stupid as saying no grads have a sense of entitlement. I am sure there were people that could have bought a small grotty terrace on a repayment mortgage but went for the quick fix and rented a much nicer house. This may have been because he felt the terrace was over valued or it may have been his feeling of entitlement pushed him away from the long slow route.

(Not including the dumber types who march to Help-To-Buy). Entitlement?

HTB is probably the dumbest policy the government has ever brought out. But it doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth using it.

5% down if house prices fall sell it at a loss in 5 years time and let the government take the hit. Ok you will have lost your 5% deposit but the saving in rent may compensate you for that. The calculator is you friend on that one.