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swissy_fit

Housing Benefit, How Else Could It Be Spent?

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How much is the annual Housing Benefit bill?

I believe I heard it's about 23 billion GBP.

Here's a thought, Etonians, as you're so keen on direct interventions in the housing market.

Get the BOE to print 25bn, you're pretty good at that bit already.

Now instead of giving it to banks, use this money as follows :

1. Select land and use all powers of government to take the land if necessary and grant appropriate building permissions. Begin in areas where housing pressure is the greatest and therefore housing benefits are highest.

2. Build approx 300,000 council homes and infrastructure, more if a fair proportion of those are apartments. Build them well, lots of prefabs to Passivhaus standards, buy a German company and make them build a factory in the UK if necessary.

3. Beginning with the highest recipients of housing benefit, working or otherwise, offer places in the new properties. Those who refuse have housing benefit removed.

4. Remove the right-to-buy.

5. Continue this for about five years.

After this time the housing benefit bill should be tiny, and the printed money will have been well spent with much of it redistributed in the economy during the building process.

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see my sig.

QE (or whatever) £100bn and build 1m council houses.

Cost is negative real p.a.

The reason why none of the corporate apparatchiks in govt will do this is 'cause it removes the ongoing bung to their landowning rentier masters.

How would Duke of Westminster survive without his land rents?

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Yes, HB is about £24 billion a year.

If rents were halved we could save £12 billion a year on HB.

The cost (without land) of building a 3 bed semi is about £50K I think.

If the land was bought "cheaply" at say £50k a plot in the South East then that would be a total cost of £100K per house. So 120,000 extra houses a year.

But I think the savings should be brought forward to build them more quickly - say 300,000 a year

It pays for itself.

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Housing benefits if a massive intervention in the market anyway so instead of just propping up landlords' investments why not just have rent caps?

It would save on HB and keep the easy-money spivs out of the landlord game. Prices would fall for everyone.

Of course it won't happen as too much of our money was created as debt to fuel property purchases.

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Yes, HB is about £24 billion a year.

If rents were halved we could save £12 billion a year on HB.

The cost (without land) of building a 3 bed semi is about £50K I think.

If the land was bought "cheaply" at say £50k a plot in the South East then that would be a total cost of £100K per house. So 120,000 extra houses a year.

But I think the savings should be brought forward to build them more quickly - say 300,000 a year

It pays for itself.

i'll happily live in the flat if it is spacious and has a balcony, and if it is affordable:) bring it on:)

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Yes, HB is about £24 billion a year.

If rents were halved we could save £12 billion a year on HB.

The cost (without land) of building a 3 bed semi is about £50K I think.

If the land was bought "cheaply" at say £50k a plot in the South East then that would be a total cost of £100K per house. So 120,000 extra houses a year.

But I think the savings should be brought forward to build them more quickly - say 300,000 a year

It pays for itself.

I think it might even be better than you state, i.e. rents falling by x% might reduce HB by 2x or 3x the drop, which of course works against the taxpayer as rents rise. eg a 20% rise in rents from here would, I presume add more than 20% to the HB bill.

The whole thing ought to be scrapped and companies forced to pay proper wages for their workers. Low-paid workers in central London are costing the taxpayer an obscene amount in comparison to their wages, all because it's politically the PC thing to do. Tesco, GS should cough up a decent salaries for their key workers/cleaners etc or move their premeses elsewhere.

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How much is the annual Housing Benefit bill?

I believe I heard it's about 23 billion GBP.

(...)

2. Build approx 300,000 council homes and infrastructure,

(...)

No need to spend it, just reform the planning system and allow people access to building plots.

Edit: I guarantee that there are well over 300,000 people willing and able to afford to have their own homes built, if only plots were not so rare and consequently so extortionately expensive.

You could even also allow small local builders access to medium size plots as well, enough for a row of terraces for instance.

Unfortunately, currently we have instead the unholy alliance of NIMBYs and local authorities, and only the big builders are strong enough to overpower these anti-building selfish b@stards.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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No need to spend it, just reform the planning system and allow people access to building plots.

Edit: I guarantee that there are well over 300,000 people willing and able to afford to have their own homes built, if only plots were not so rare and consequently so extortionately expensive.

You could even also allow small local builders access to medium size plots as well, enough for a row of terraces for instance.

Unfortunately, currently we have instead the unholy alliance of NIMBYs and local authorities, and only the big builders are strong enough to overpower these anti-building selfish b@stards.

I'd say easily a million would do it. I'd do it tomorrow if it was made cheaper and simpler.

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Housing benefits if a massive intervention in the market anyway so instead of just propping up landlords' investments why not just have rent caps?

Better to solve the problem by reducing rather then increasing gov intervention in the market.

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Is any taxpayer money actually needed to sort this out? A lot of it could be done by reforming the planning system and letting private money do the work.

Why should HB claimants be given these high quality Passivhäuser instead of putting them into the general housing stock?

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4. Remove the right-to-buy.

Why would you want to do that?

By the end of the year I'll be able to buy my council house for around 80k, no banks will be troubled by this.

Whats not to like?

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Why would you want to do that?

By the end of the year I'll be able to buy my council house for around 80k, no banks will be troubled by this.

Whats not to like?

+1

Nothing wrong with RTB provided the funds are ploughed back into the social housing stock. And of course I have a VI here I suppose.

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Why would you want to do that?

By the end of the year I'll be able to buy my council house for around 80k, no banks will be troubled by this.

Whats not to like?

What's to like for all the non council tenants?

You want your own house, buy it at the market price.

This would still help you do that as the market price would get a lot lower.

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Is any taxpayer money actually needed to sort this out? A lot of it could be done by reforming the planning system and letting private money do the work.

Why should HB claimants be given these high quality Passivhäuser instead of putting them into the general housing stock?

So you think sh1t houses should be built deliberately for the plebs? OK, you didn't say that, but you see my point.

What do you think would happen in the general market? I suggest that general standards would be driven up very rapidly.

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Is any taxpayer money actually needed to sort this out? A lot of it could be done by reforming the planning system and letting private money do the work.

Why should HB claimants be given these high quality Passivhäuser instead of putting them into the general housing stock?

Well.. if council houses had excellent insulation, solar panels (with net metering), and solar hot water then you pay less in benefits, because they would need less for electricity and fuel.

Plus, of course, it might make the big housebuilders up their game a bit.

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What's to like for all the non council tenants?

You want your own house, buy it at the market price.

This would still help you do that as the market price would get a lot lower.

because the market price is inflated?

The so called RTB discount is based on the bubble price at the time of the sale.

Some twits have just put a council flat similar to mine on the market at £65k. The last one sold for £28k.

So I'm not even sure my so called RTB discount can keep pace with free market bubblenomics!

And all the time my rent is increasing above inflation. indeed even based on that ridiculous valuation I could rent cheaper from the bank than the Council.

Go sort your lunatic private sector out before telling council tenants what they can and can't do. We didn't start this crisis!!!

All you Tory boys do is deflect blame onto people that had NOTHING TO DO with the crisis.

Go do something useful. shoot some landowners and bankers and stop voting TORY for a start!

Edited by Secure Tenant

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What's to like for all the non council tenants?

You want your own house, buy it at the market price.

This would still help you do that as the market price would get a lot lower.

This country is owned by the aristocracy and by the underclass who will never pay the full price for anything.

Tell me you're not serious about wanting to pay 6 or 8 times your income (market price) for somewhere to live?

If so just pay the money....

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What do you think would happen in the general market? I suggest that general standards would be driven up very rapidly.

If these new high quality houses were put into the general market the mechanism of competition would be more direct. By restricting availability to people who are on certain benefits you are allowing housing providers to price discriminate between customers. If a chip shop is willing to give pensioners a cheaper fish supper does that mean you get a better/cheaper supper too? No, you don't qualify, so it makes no difference to you.

I think the general public would not share much in the improvements given to HB claimants other than the freeing up of some old stock as HB claimants move into high quality taxpayer-funded housing which taxpayers could not afford for themselves.

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Go sort your lunatic private sector out before telling council tenants what they can and can't do. We didn't start this crisis!!!

Go do something useful. shoot some landowners and bankers and stop voting TORY for a start!

The problem is that by letting a large proportion of renters sit out the game in government-owned housing, the political will to do something about the problems in the private rental market is greatly reduced. Over a third of the population lives in rented housing of one sort or another, but between social housing and housing benefit maybe only a third of that third actually has much skin in the game. If all renters were exposed to the same market forces there would be a much bigger demand for a properly regulated and professionally operated rental market.

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Think about what would happen though if you trebled house building.

There'd be a shortage of builders so labour costs would double build costs, there'd be a immigration flood and loads of natives retraining as builders...

just in time for the scheme to stop when a couple of million houses are built, leaving builders and newly trained builders and high and dry. Another crisis to solve.

:P

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because the market price is inflated?

The so called RTB discount is based on the bubble price at the time of the sale.

Some twits have just put a council flat similar to mine on the market at £65k. The last one sold for £28k.

So I'm not even sure my so called RTB discount can keep pace with free market bubblenomics!

And all the time my rent is increasing above inflation. indeed even based on that ridiculous valuation I could rent cheaper from the bank than the Council.

Go sort your lunatic private sector out before telling council tenants what they can and can't do. We didn't start this crisis!!!

All you Tory boys do is deflect blame onto people that had NOTHING TO DO with the crisis.

Go do something useful. shoot some landowners and bankers and stop voting TORY for a start!

This is the most un-Tory idea imaginable.

You're missing the point, this would sort out the lunatic private sector, what do you think would be the result of a massive increase in supply of high-quality housing?

You didn't earn your RTB discount any more than the boomers earned their property wealth. If you could still end up with your own house at an acceptable price - what's the problem? Do you need to feel you're getting something for nothing?

Edited by swissy_fit

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What's to like for all the non council tenants?

You want your own house, buy it at the market price.

This would still help you do that as the market price would get a lot lower.

Do home owners that once bought at the market price, end up buying at the market price?.......no they buy at the interest rate and deposit price, the amount it ends up being worth is not the price they paid.........in other words a council house secured tenant that has lived in a property for many years is in effect paying their rent/bank interest up front and paying the price the capital at the end of the deal.....the capital is a similar price/valuation as when they entered the property.....

Making it an even playing field if you want to compare buyers using a mortgage debt and long-term council house tenants using rent like interest and paying a price they would of paid for it when they moved it.....same thing. ;)

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This country is owned by the aristocracy and by the underclass who will never pay the full price for anything.

Yes that is correct, this would go some way to reversing this(so won't happen). The interesting thing is that as a council tenant you're so wrapped up in the idea of getting your RTB money for nothing that you can't see the consequences of this would benefit everyone. It's not surprising the elite find manipulation fairly straightforward.

Tell me you're not serious about wanting to pay 6 or 8 times your income (market price) for somewhere to live?

If so just pay the money....

No. Market prices would fall dramatically.

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Do home owners that once bought at the market price, end up buying at the market price?.......no they buy at the interest rate and deposit price, the amount it ends up being worth is not the price they paid.........in other words a council house secured tenant that has lived in a property for many years is in effect paying their rent/bank interest up front and paying the price the capital at the end of the deal.....the capital is a similar price/valuation as when they entered the property.....

Making it an even playing field if you want to compare buyers using a mortgage debt and long-term council house tenants using rent like interest and paying a price they would of paid for it when they moved it.....same thing. ;)

If there was massive, high-quality supply, nothing you have described would be true. It is not normal for property prices to increase dramatically over a mortgage term, this has become the norm in the UK due to supply/quality constraints.

RTB was introduced to try and garner Tory votes, ironically. (given Secure Tenant's post)

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EDIT: But you'd be mad not to take such an offer up Council Dweller. It is just that the rest of us can only see negatives on a broader front.

True. It's wrong IMO, but not at an individual level, you must do your best for your family.

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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