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Ungeared

Digital Fuel Pumps

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'Elf and safety gone mad, no doubt.

There is a rather obscure risk with latching nozzles.

If you walk away from the nozzle while it is filling, e.g. go back to sit in the car, then you can build up static electricity. When you grab the nozzle, it ignites the petrol vapours that have been blown out of the tank by the new petrol.

This was a major cause of petrol station fires. It was eventually banned in the UK, Australia and most EU countries. The US retains this, but the result is a number of occasional petrol tank fires.

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There is a rather obscure risk with latching nozzles.

If you walk away from the nozzle while it is filling, e.g. go back to sit in the car, then you can build up static electricity. When you grab the nozzle, it ignites the petrol vapours that have been blown out of the tank by the new petrol.

This was a major cause of petrol station fires. It was eventually banned in the UK, Australia and most EU countries. The US retains this, but the result is a number of occasional petrol tank fires.

Aircraft are grounded to Earth when fuelling for this very reason

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Gone are the days when you didn't fill your own tank, there were helpful assistants employed to do it for you, they washed your windscreen and checked your oil also if you wanted......if you asked for £3 of petrol and it came to £3.02 they waved the 2p....then waved you on your way. ;)

Not in New Jersey! Somebody has to fill your car for you! :huh:

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Not in New Jersey! Somebody has to fill your car for you! :huh:

Someone filled my tank in Andorra. I had no idea whether I was supposed to get back in my car and wait for them to finish or what? Then when I gave them some Euros I had no idea whether I was supposed to follow them to the till or wait there?!? Most confusing, although she was very nice (about it all).

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Someone filled my tank in Andorra. I had no idea whether I was supposed to get back in my car and wait for them to finish or what? Then when I gave them some Euros I had no idea whether I was supposed to follow them to the till or wait there?!? Most confusing, although she was very nice (about it all).

;)

It's like the olden days when Bovril, and and eggs and milk were good for you! :(

In NJ you do not fill your own car! It's like 1964 really, except black people can sit anywhere they like on the bus now! :o

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Not being a driver, I'm curious why people really care about hitting the pound on the nose. It's charged per litre. I'd be far too lazy to care and just stop it before it hit £20. Or more likely get roughly the right number of litres I want. The cashier has change for a reason.

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Not being a driver, I'm curious why people really care about hitting the pound on the nose.

As a driver, I don't understand it either. You drive in, you fill the car up, you pay by card, you drive off. Doesn't really matter whether it is £67.42 or £60.00.

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Not being a driver, I'm curious why people really care about hitting the pound on the nose. It's charged per litre. I'd be far too lazy to care and just stop it before it hit £20. Or more likely get roughly the right number of litres I want. The cashier has change for a reason.

Hop on over to the Daily Mail website and look at some of the readers comments.

There's a whole world of people out there getting angry for reasons I find difficult to understand.

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1p for the last few drips.

sort adds meaning to "Im going to spend a penny"

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As a driver, I don't understand it either. You drive in, you fill the car up, you pay by card, you drive off. Doesn't really matter whether it is £67.42 or £60.00.

That £7.42 wont buy a pack of fags! :blink:

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I think with inflation, it gets harder and harder to fill to the exact penny.

^ This

With inflation, 1p of petrol has become a smaller volume and simply harder for anyone to deliver precisely by hand.

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With inflation, 1p of petrol has become a smaller volume and simply harder for anyone to deliver precisely by hand.

This is plausible. However, I too have noticed a rather sudden difficulty not ending up with XX.01 and only in the last few months (when petrol has been more or less the same price for a couple of years).

On the subject of 'why care about XX.00', I find I don't really know. I suppose it may be just some game that some motorists play (when paying by card).

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Some people seem to think there is a plot because it has become 'more difficult' to delver to the exact penny.

Actually, I remember a sketch about this, where a driver filled up to an exact pound amount, and then the cashier pressed a 'nudge' button on his counter to add a penny..

On Not the Nine o'Clock News, back in the 1980's.

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Some people seem to think there is a plot because it has become 'more difficult' to delver to the exact penny.

Actually, I remember a sketch about this, where a driver filled up to an exact pound amount, and then the cashier pressed a 'nudge' button on his counter to add a penny..

On Not the Nine o'Clock News, back in the 1980's.

....similar to how they are changing cost of some mobile phone calls.....for example; from say 30p a minute 60 seconds, 45p for one one and a half minutes 90 seconds..... to 30p a minute to 60p for one minute one second.....what next. ;)

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The next thing they will be doing is reducing is the size of a Mars Bar and charging the same price......oh wait a minute :rolleyes:

They'd never get away with it would they?

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On the subject of 'why care about XX.00', I find I don't really know. I suppose it may be just some game that some motorists play (when paying by card).

To make entry in my self-employment ledgers easier. ;)

It's pretty obvious why they do it, as people who want/need it to be to the pound will go round for another go (Which in my experience will work fine :ph34r: )

Multiply that by even a few people a day across the country.

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The next thing they will be doing is reducing is the size of a Mars Bar and charging the same price......oh wait a minute :rolleyes:

They'd never get away with it would they?

.......noticed everything nowadays is sold in multiples of a £1......any price increases, it either goes up in pound units or it is reduced in size,weight, volume or quality accordingly. ;)

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I was thinking this exact same thing the other day. I can stop it on .95, and .96, and .97, and .98 and .99, then it goes to .01.

I always only pay the whole amount, if the attendant says they want the penny i say i dont want it, and they are welcome to get it back out of my car.

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Quite impressed with the mild paranoia here.

So Shell and co are fixing all their pumps (at enormous expense i should imagine) so that they get an extra 0.01% of revenue in the 10% of people who are aiming for round numbers.

Not to mention the increased transaction time this would cause at their forecourts.

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Yes, same in the States.

In fact you can see the catches on the pump handles here but they have been removed. Probably some sort of safety issue.

Not type approved in the E.U. I can't recall why.

As for the OP, It's you probably, but if you must report it to your local trading standards and they will go out and test the pump.

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The next thing they will be doing is reducing is the size of a Mars Bar and charging the same price......oh wait a minute :rolleyes:

They'd never get away with it would they?

Does your car run on choccie bars? :blink:

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Quite impressed with the mild paranoia here.

It's not totally paranoid. Admittedly, no one would bother with something that skims 0.01%.

However, there have been instances recorded of "remapped" digital fuel pumps, which were designed to rip off customers, while passing calibration tests.

Traditionally, trading standards and other inspectors would check a pump by filling a precision made container (e.g. 5 litres or 10 litres). They would fill the container to the calibrated line, and check that the pump agreed.

Unscrupulous pump dealers were known to sell modified digital readouts that would read spot-on at the calibration points, but would over-read significantly, by up to 5% for measures between the calibration points.

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It's not totally paranoid. Admittedly, no one would bother with something that skims 0.01%.

However, there have been instances recorded of "remapped" digital fuel pumps, which were designed to rip off customers, while passing calibration tests.

Traditionally, trading standards and other inspectors would check a pump by filling a precision made container (e.g. 5 litres or 10 litres). They would fill the container to the calibrated line, and check that the pump agreed.

Unscrupulous pump dealers were known to sell modified digital readouts that would read spot-on at the calibration points, but would over-read significantly, by up to 5% for measures between the calibration points.

I've not come across that before interesting.

It is possible to test a pump at different points you can use any of the measures together if there is suspicion 30l, 15l 25l etc, you can also test using the gravimetric method you just need the specific densities, temps etc for the equipment and fuel.

You could adapt the formula from BS6696

V = (IL -IE) x (1) x (1 - Qa) x (1=y(t—20)) Qw-Qa Qb

IL = the balance reading of the vessel with water in grams

JE = the balance reading of the empty vessel in grams

Qa = the density of air — in grams per millilitre

Qb = the actual density of the balance weights when these are adjusted to their nominal mass or the reference density for which the weights have been adjusted in grams per rnillilitre

Qw = density of water

Y = is the co-efficient of cubical thermal expansion of the material of the glassware it was tested with in degrees celsius

T = is the temperature of the water used in the testing — in degrees celsius.

Haven't used that testing method since my practical metrology exam in 2007 :blink:

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Does your car run on choccie bars? :blink:

I have a Ford Galaxy sir.....ok I lied :D

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This has just happened to me again!

I was feeling pretty smug because I'd been filling up and managed to stop at £58 dead without slowing down. Having reached home, I've just checked the receipt[1], and it says £58.02! :angry:

[1] For entering into my sad man's home accounts.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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