Universal Credit New Thread.complete Disaster.

[workingpoor]

The benefits covered by UC are

Non contributory JSA.

Housing Benefit.

Working Tax Credit

Child Tax Credit

Employment and Support Allowance

Income and Support Allowance.

https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/claiming-other-benefits

Pensions and Pensioners Credit are not part of it.

One element of Pensioners Credit the Savings credit was effectively abolished for all new Pensioners from 2016.

No one who qualifies for the full new State Pension of £155 per week will be eligible for Pensioner Credit.

What about those who are under state pension age but in reciept of pension credit? i believe you can start collecting pension credit some 2.5years prior to state pension age.

(and possibly also in reciept of housing benefit)

Ah some clarity:

Pension Credit

As Housing Benefit is being abolished, Pension Credit will change. It may include a new housing credit to help towards rent. Its unclear when this will happen.

As Child Tax Credit is being abolished, Pension Credit will include additional amounts for dependent children. It's not clear when this change will happen but it's unlikely to be before October 2016.

Edited April 14, 2016 by workingpoor

[mrtickle]

Dreading what?

The hassle?

Or the 400/week?

Dreading have to work honestly for a living, I expect.

He's been getting £21,320 NET TAX-FREE GIFTS all this time, and has the gall to "dread" it being taken away? He should have the grace to quietly sigh in relief that he didn't get caught for his tax fraud. These people make me sick. At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.

[workingpoor]

Dreading have to work honestly for a living, I expect.

He's been getting £21,320 NET TAX-FREE GIFTS all this time, and has the gall to "dread" it being taken away? He should have the grace to quietly sigh in relief that he didn't get caught for his tax fraud. These people make me sick. At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask.

I would do my civic duty.

[Economic Exile]

Article in the Socialist Worker (it might been the Guardian, actually - easily confused) today.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/14/dwp-punishing-low-paid-full-time-workers-under-new-benefits-rule

Cites full timers being sanctioned and includes lots of quotes along the lines of "I've got a job - why should I have to go to the job centre?".

This comment on the article caught my eye:-

"My son has just got another job, 0 contract hours, minimum wage! Even if he worked 50 hours a week he could not afford to pay rent, bills and eat without support. Hopefully when he finishes studying, he will get a better paid job. However I can remember being at Uni, 25 years ago, doing a part time easy job in a part sales department of a big company, and I was getting £5.50 a hour, 25 years ago!! Same job now £6.50 an hour - disgusting!!!"

This seems to me how things have panned out. Cost of housing, council tax and heating have all increased far far more than wages for the majority! Yes, disgusting!

[workingpoor]

This comment on the article caught my eye:-

"My son has just got another job, 0 contract hours, minimum wage! Even if he worked 50 hours a week he could not afford to pay rent, bills and eat without support. Hopefully when he finishes studying, he will get a better paid job. However I can remember being at Uni, 25 years ago, doing a part time easy job in a part sales department of a big company, and I was getting £5.50 a hour, 25 years ago!! Same job now £6.50 an hour - disgusting!!!"

This seems to me how things have panned out. Cost of housing, council tax and heating have all increased far far more than wages for the majority! Yes, disgusting!

Wages have regressed to this paltry level beginning at around 2003/4 and declining steadily to minimum wage for most unskilled jobs.

What began in 2003/4 that could have had this effect?

[workingpoor]

Article in the Socialist Worker (it might been the Guardian, actually - easily confused) today.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/14/dwp-punishing-low-paid-full-time-workers-under-new-benefits-rule

Cites full timers being sanctioned and includes lots of quotes along the lines of "I've got a job - why should I have to go to the job centre?".

This is a brilliant article and i am both surprised and extremely pleased that UC is working as intended and not letting people think that 20hrs part time is enough work to get away with collecting huge top ups and subsidised rent.

I look forward to the Homebased Nail bar workers, grass cutters & dog walkers benefitting from some tailored work advisor input & work focused activity seminars.

I will add that you are not allowed to go on holiday outside of the UK whilst in reciept of UC (or Jsa)

You can go on holiday inside the UK but must be no more than 4 hrs away from home in case you are called in to the Jobcentre.

Also you must be available for and actively seeking work whilst on holiday.

Now maybe that woman had been on Tax Credits where the above holiday conditionlity didnt apply but she was moved over to UC so it is correct.

I was forced to sign off and back on again either side of a trip abroad whilst claiming JSA.

Edited April 14, 2016 by workingpoor

[Economic Exile]

Wages have regressed to this paltry level beginning at around 2003/4 and declining steadily to minimum wage for most unskilled jobs.

What began in 2003/4 that could have had this effect?

My take on how things are is that it goes back to the 90's when Thatcher/Reagan "opened up the markets". Then the New Labour Project deregulated the banks further with the aim of redistributing wealth (the classless society!) from banking profits through tax credits.

What a mess now! UK is in a prolonged downturn regarding social mobility for the majority IMO.

[Economic Exile]

This is a brilliant article and i am both surprised and extremely pleased that UC is working as intended and not letting people think that 20hrs part time is enough work to get away with collecting huge top ups and subsidised rent.

I look forward to the Homebased Nail bar workers, grass cutters & dog walkers benefitting from some tailored work advisor input & work focused activity seminars.

I will add that you are not allowed to go on holiday outside of the UK whilst in reciept of UC (or Jsa)

You can go on holiday inside the UK but must be no mre than 4 hrs away from home in case you are called in to the Jobcentre.

Also you be available for and actively seeking work whilst on holiday.

Now maybe that woman had been on Tax Credits where the above holiday conditionlity didnt apply but she was moved over to UC so it is correct.

I was forced to sign off and back on again either side of a trip abroad whilst claiming JSA.

Setting aside someone going on, IMO, a dismal cheap holiday to a Spanish resort. Where are the full time jobs with enough money to live off without subsidies for the masses going to come from? In addition with the other problem of everyone expected to work longer before getting a state pension. I have no answer to that, maybe you have?

[workingpoor]

Setting aside someone going on, IMO, a dismal cheap holiday to a Spanish resort. Where are the full time jobs with enough money to live off without subsidies for the masses going to come from? In addition with the other problem of everyone expected to work longer before getting a state pension. I have no answer to that, maybe you have?

Yes i have the answer: The jobs are not going to come from anywhere, the damage is done.

There are too many people and not enough jobs and even less well paid jobs capable of supporting even a modest lifestlye without some kind of top up / subsidy. (and people skilled enough to get those jobs in the first place)

The future is very bleak especially with the extended working lives being foisted upon everyone with pension age increases.

There are almost 2 million extra people a year adding to the UK workforce from the EU at the current rate.

Where i live we have lost over the last 8 years some really big employers providing well paid jobs.

Shipbuilding yard moved to Scotland 1000 jobs gone (1 was mine)

Ford's transit plant closed and shipped to Turkey

Pierelli cable plant closed

BAT tobacco

And thousands of jobs in high street banking and insurance gone, Aviva, Skandia, Zurich etc

I was job searching earlier

Cruise line Meet & Greet driver

£7:20 p/hr self employed basis.

Even trying to weedle out of the NMW increase by getting people to go self employed for £7:20 p/hr

The thing is no-one is going to squeak or protest as long as they are getting their subsidy "im alright jack"

So in some ways the NMW hike and UC conditionality is working towards that moment.

Edited April 14, 2016 by workingpoor

[Economic Exile]

Yes i have the answer: The jobs are not going to come from anywhere, the damage is done.

There are too many people and not enough jobs and even less well paid jobs capable of supporting even a modest lifestlye without some kind of top up / subsidy. (and people skilled enough to get those jobs in the first place)

The future is very bleak especially with the extended working lives being foisted upon everyone with pension age increases.

There are almost 2 million extra people a year adding to the UK workforce from the EU at the current rate.

Where i live we have lost over the last 8 years some really big employers providing well paid jobs.

Shipbuilding yard moved to Scotland 1000 jobs gone (1 was mine)

Ford's transit plant closed and shipped to Turkey

Pierelli cable plant closed

BAT tobacco

And thousands of jobs in high street banking and insurance gone, Aviva, Skandia, Zurich etc

I was job searching earlier

Cruise line Meet & Greet driver

£7:20 p/hr self employed basis.

Even trying to weedle out of the NMW increase by getting people to go self employed for £7:20 p/hr

The thing is no-one is going to squeak or protest as long as they are getting their subsidy "im alright jack"

So in some ways the NMW hike and UC conditionality is working towards that moment.

I agree, the future is bleak for the majority.

Everything seems to be pointing to major social unrest in the UK. As the cuts continue I think more people will want to protest. It's much easier these days for groups to mobilise through social media.

Good luck with job searching. It's also pretty bleak job wise down here in Dumfries & Galloway.

I still have my doubts though that the cretins in charge will manage to get Universal Credit up and running

[workingpoor]

I agree, the future is bleak for the majority.

Everything seems to be pointing to major social unrest in the UK. As the cuts continue I think more people will want to protest. It's much easier these days for groups to mobilise through social media.

Good luck with job searching. It's also pretty bleak job wise down here in Dumfries & Galloway.

I still have my doubts though that the cretins in charge will manage to get Universal Credit up and running

Thanks,

I didn't mean to be too depressive, maybe they will drop the reforms once they realise all the issues it will create, still the current system is not sustainable.

[spyguy]

This comment on the article caught my eye:-

"My son has just got another job, 0 contract hours, minimum wage! Even if he worked 50 hours a week he could not afford to pay rent, bills and eat without support. Hopefully when he finishes studying, he will get a better paid job. However I can remember being at Uni, 25 years ago, doing a part time easy job in a part sales department of a big company, and I was getting £5.50 a hour, 25 years ago!! Same job now £6.50 an hour - disgusting!!!"

This seems to me how things have panned out. Cost of housing, council tax and heating have all increased far far more than wages for the majority! Yes, disgusting!

Social rents have gone up because HB benefit have gone ahead, far ahead of what earnings.

I dont think heating has gone up that far.

C tax has.

[spyguy]

My take on how things are is that it goes back to the 90's when Thatcher/Reagan "opened up the markets". Then the New Labour Project deregulated the banks further with the aim of redistributing wealth (the classless society!) from banking profits through tax credits.

What a mess now! UK is in a prolonged downturn regarding social mobility for the majority IMO.

Balls.

Reagan/Thatcher were late 80s.

The issues you've raised are down to a combination of HB chasing rents highers.

Labour changed HB to chase average rents, so rents wnet up, supported by HB.

HB should be tied to wages.

This was a Labour screw up.

The wage falls have been entirely due to EU immigration.

Again, Labour in the early 2000s.

The wages and housing costs are all down to Labout in the early 2002.

[spyguy]

Setting aside someone going on, IMO, a dismal cheap holiday to a Spanish resort. Where are the full time jobs with enough money to live off without subsidies for the masses going to come from? In addition with the other problem of everyone expected to work longer before getting a state pension. I have no answer to that, maybe you have?

Who said it was dismal?

Spain is nice at this time of year.

[interestrateripoff]

Its not though.

Look at the money going out on work-aged and disability benefits.

Companies like Amazon pay little corporate tax as they do not make a profit. Amazon will pay a lot of wage based taxes.

How much do you think a tax on IP transfer will raise?

Nothing near the taxcredit bill.

I agree it's not, but from the individual perspective you'd be crazy not to game the system whilst you can. Tax credits should never have been introduced.

[stuckin2up2down]

Contributory JSA is a joke. It should be paid out for at least 2 years and calculated according to the number of years you have paid NIC without claiming.

As far as non contributory JSA is concerned if you have not paid any contributions why should you expect a large sum of money.

Anyway the topic of the thread is Universal Credit which is about non contributory benefits.

You get less out if you've contributed - none of the dental, prescriptions and all that. So its actually wooers if your on contributions.

Surely UC will be replacing CJSA so it does concern contributions?

CJSA should be linked to what your last wage was.

[SarahBell]

Its not though.

Look at the money going out on work-aged and disability benefits.

Companies like Amazon pay little corporate tax as they do not make a profit. Amazon will pay a lot of wage based taxes.

How much do you think a tax on IP transfer will raise?

Nothing near the taxcredit bill.

What tax credit bill is created by amazon's wages?

I would like to see the data on the biggest companies in the UK - how much tax credits their employees get.

[spyguy]

What tax credit bill is created by amazon's wages?

I would like to see the data on the biggest companies in the UK - how much tax credits their employees get.

I am very anti tax credits for 16h.

I am very very very anti subbing wages for companies.

Don't know the answer to your question.

Probably quite a bit.

One of the many many side effects that tax credits created was turning 1 full-tim job into 4 or 5 part-time ones, with TC taking up the difference.

Thanks Gordon, you tnuc.

[SarahBell]

I am very anti tax credits for 16h.

I am very very very anti subbing wages for companies.

Don't know the answer to your question.

Probably quite a bit.

One of the many many side effects that tax credits created was turning 1 full-tim job into 4 or 5 part-time ones, with TC taking up the difference.

Thanks Gordon, you tnuc.

^^^^ me too.

The basic premiss of you work less hours so you earn less = common sense.

Edited April 15, 2016 by SarahBell

[spyguy]

Its like the EEs.

No problems with EEs coming over and working.

But thanks to that one eyed loon, rather than low end jobs going over to the low cost countries, we get people from the low-cost countries coming over to the UK (high cost), doing the low cost job and getting their money topped upped by taxation of the productive!

Its fcking insane, like the loon who invented the system.

Compare - Japan, a high cost country.

They automate tasks.

Here in the UK, you have fcking Roma handwashing cars FFS!

.

[Guest BillyNI]

It's just disguised unemployment. I know a girl in Belfast who works 16 hours a week. With tax credits she takes home 1300. Doesn't sound like a lot of money but for Belfast this is enough. Is there someone else doing the other 16 hours and yet another doing the 8?

[durhamborn]

Dreading what?

The hassle?

Or the 400/week?

The fact he will lose cash in hand if he has to go to jobsearch meetings.He will get the same benefits on UC.

[EssKay]

Compare - Japan, a high cost country.

They automate tasks.

Here in the UK, you have fcking Roma handwashing cars FFS!

.

It's insane - and the initial burden on the public purse through tax credit handouts is just the tip of the iceberg.

Add on the services these low productivity imported workers consume and the longer term costs when they eventually become citizens (state pensions etc) and you start to see if for what it really is - an utterly unsustainable mess

The problem is thanks to the "hard working families" narrative and people like Question Time nail bar lady, the whole topic is now politically toxic and any meaningful reform has at best been delayed until the next parliament (assuming the Tories get in again) and very possibly made impossible to achieve

[Dorkins]

^^^^ me too.

The basic premiss of you work less hours so you earn less = common sense.

How many hours do landlords work?

The idea that people who don't own assets should get zero if they don't work is slave mentality. Yes, productive work should be rewarded, but it doesn't need to be the only source of income available.

[winkie]

Here in the UK, you have fcking Roma handwashing cars FFS!

.

I will wash my own car....or allow the rain to wash it.