Universal Credit New Thread.complete Disaster.

[durhamborn]

Schapps floats two-child benefit cap. Looks like that will be their 'wedge' issue for the election.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2364718/No-benefit-child-youre-dole-Tories-unveil-controversial-welfare-plan.html

Of course this is sold as for unemployed people but in fact its for everyone so people working on tax credits will be the same and UC if it did by some miracle come in.

Notice the comment "We need to create a choice for people on welfare which mirrors that which millions of people in work who aren’t receiving state support have to make. It’s only fair to the taxpayer.’

It mentions only people in work who aren't getting state support,in other words it would affect in work tax credits or UC.

[@contradevian]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/five-things-iain-duncan-smith-doesnt-want-you-know-about-benefit-cap

The claim on which the policy rests - that a non-working family can be better off than a working one - is a myth since it takes no account of the benefits that an in-work family can claim to increase their income. For instance, a couple with four children earning £26,000 after tax and with rent and council tax liabilities of £400 a week is entitled to around £15,000 a year in housing benefit and council tax support, £3,146 in child benefit and more than £4,000 in tax credits.

Were the cap based on the average income (as opposed to average earnings) of a working family, it would be set at a significantly higher level of £31,500. The suggestion that the welfare system "rewards" worklessness isn’t true; families are already better off in employment. Thus, the two central arguments for the policy - that it will improve work incentives and end the "unfairness" of out-of-work families receiving more than their in-work equivalents - fall down.

[mrtickle]

Of course this is sold as for unemployed people but in fact its for everyone so people working on tax credits will be the same and UC if it did by some miracle come in.

Notice the comment "We need to create a choice for people on welfare which mirrors that which millions of people in work who aren't receiving state support have to make. It's only fair to the taxpayer.'

It mentions only people in work who aren't getting state support,in other words it would affect in work tax credits or UC.

GOOD.

[Solitaire]

Anonymous source: Universal Credit IT "reset", started again

"Right, a good installment of latest info hot from the DWP coal face. Universal Credit project is officially "reset" and changing direction"

http://storify.com/latentexistence/anonymous-source-universal-credit-it-reset-started

[winkie]

100% certain to be in the Conservative manifesto.Unless they tackle that welfare will never be reformed.Its the main problem.Deal with that and you deal with a large part of the problem with welfare.

The best answer would be to limit to 1 child but increase it.Instead of child tax credit,children tax credit set higher than for 1 child now but lower than for 2.

I can now see why it works out far cheaper and cost effective to let another country bare the childcare, upbringing and educational costs and import them when they are fit, healthy and educated, ready, willing and eager to work and start paying taxes.

[Tired of Waiting]

Anonymous source: Universal Credit IT "reset", started again

"Right, a good installment of latest info hot from the DWP coal face. Universal Credit project is officially "reset" and changing direction"

http://storify.com/latentexistence/anonymous-source-universal-credit-it-reset-started

Interesting link.

"I.e. the current IT system is not fit for purpose and has been scrapped (at a cost of at least £300M)"

Really?! Only £300M?!

[tinker]

Anonymous source: Universal Credit IT "reset", started again

"Right, a good installment of latest info hot from the DWP coal face. Universal Credit project is officially "reset" and changing direction"

http://storify.com/latentexistence/anonymous-source-universal-credit-it-reset-started

Interesting another failed, very expensive IT project. Just £300m this time.

£300m could buy a lot of food for those foodbanks they've helped create a need for.

He - IDS - really has to go. An insane waste of money.

I thought a Citizen's Income was a good idea and the way to go. Of course, the whole concept of the 9-5 would have to be re-thought to match the economic reality.

[durhamborn]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/209529/universal-credit-your-claim-journey-toolkit.pdf

Well the DWPs has released the pathfinder area "Claim journey".

The interesting bits are that UC was always supposed to be digital by default yet only the first claim form is.Then you have to run the claim over the phone and by letter.You also have to phone in every month with pay details etc.

In other words none of the IT works.So people will ring in every month with pay details then the claim will be worked out by hand.They are doing everything to stretch it out,,keeping only the easy claims in several job centres.Under the above there is no chance at all it will work when spread to tax credit claims and families.

I find it incredible how they word things as if everything is all going to plan when its obvious none of the IT is working and that somehow 200ish single claims phoning in every month and being worked out by hand is the same as 10 million+

This goes from bad to worse.If they really do try to launch this for all claims it will be a complete disaster.

There is also the fact how will the DWP know the figures given are right?Utter farce.

[byron78]

I'm surprised Ian Duncan Myth hasn't gone for this yet tbh.

[dryrot]

I

Spy's simple suggestion:

Bank peoples NI contribution against their NI number.

Let them draw it down for 2 years when they are unemployed.

That'll deal with 90% of people and give them the welfare they expect.

Wtf? People get what they pay in? What kind of thatcherite fascist are you?

And how can I get elected without promising people something for nothing?

Lloyd George is turning in his grave...

Edited July 29, 2013 by dryrot

[Solitaire]

There is also the fact how will the DWP know the figures given are right?Utter farce.

Self Certification, what could possibly go wrong?

[durhamborn]

Self Certification, what could possibly go wrong?

November and January everyones wages will be just below the allowable earnings, .Where most tax credit claims contain some sort of fraud at least HMRC did catch up with maybe 1 in 10,under UC it seems a simple phone call and any old figure will do.

If UC doesn't link with the new HMRC system by October they should scrap it before they waste anymore.

They must be simply waiting for the election as this cant work at all,its a basket case

[Liquid Goldfish]

I'm surprised Ian Duncan Myth hasn't gone for this yet tbh.

He always comes top when Conservativehome members vote for their favourite cabinet member. Apparently he's made work pay. Well, that's what they always write about him, anyway.

[Tonkers]

I'm surprised Ian Duncan Myth hasn't gone for this yet tbh.

How on earth is he going to quietly drop this?

[Sancho Panza]

He always comes top when Conservativehome members vote for their favourite cabinet member. Apparently he's made work pay. Well, that's what they always write about him, anyway.

Conservativehome:The victory of hope over experience.

[@contradevian]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10220246/Welfare-reform-staff-describe-culture-of-secrecy-and-stress.html

One civil servant wrote: “I have never worked somewhere where decision making was so apparently poor at senior levels…and communications from that level was totally nonexistent.”

All going well then!

[durhamborn]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10220246/Welfare-reform-staff-describe-culture-of-secrecy-and-stress.html

All going well then!

Yep.It has no chance of working at all,none,zilch,zero.Its incredible to think the media simply accept the rolls outs are going ok when its just single unemployed new claims being done.A 10 year old can work those out by hand.There is no way they can extend to families because the IT doesn't and wont work.To do even one medium sized town by hand would take the whole DWP.

They will keep rolling out slowly to single unemployed new cases.They might even add a few new family cases in one job centre to look like things are moving.UC will then be scrapped after the next election.

Plus at least the universal jobmatch site you have to join under UC has lap dancing jobs on still.

https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2135320&JobTitle=Table+Top+Dancer+Norwich&rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=table+dancer&where=&q=&AVSDM=

Under UC if you refused to apply for that job if it was mailed to you by a workfare provider as suitable you can be sanctioned.

[Eddie_George]

Plus at least the universal jobmatch site you have to join under UC has lap dancing jobs on still.

https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2135320&JobTitle=Table+Top+Dancer+Norwich&rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=table+dancer&where=&q=&AVSDM=

Under UC if you refused to apply for that job if it was mailed to you by a workfare provider as suitable you can be sanctioned.

Jeez, it pays well doesn't it. I may move to Norwich. They can't discriminate against me because of my sex or my age can they?

[Venger]

There is no way they can extend to families because the IT doesn't and wont work.To do even one medium sized town by hand would take the whole DWP.

They will keep rolling out slowly to single unemployed new cases.They might even add a few new family cases in one job centre to look like things are moving.UC will then be scrapped after the next election.

Read the thread, but it's difficult to take it all in, given how the benefits system has ballooned, and also understand they can't get away with some cuts without affecting the all important landlords/house prices, or other consequences they don't like.

Read a thread about it when checking landlord/investor sentiment (way too high and excited over there re HTB / get ready for HPI new boom ect "capital gain is a welcome friend") on PropertyTribes the other day.

Unbelievable! Universal Credit shuns digital as "telephone based service".

It is hard to believe that, in these times of digital, that Universal Credit is set to be a "telephone based" service!

The DWP has recently issued a document called "Claimant Journey" for those claiming UC in the "pathfinder" areas that suggests that the claimant fills in an on-line form (the only digital step) and then waits for a phone call.

It says "After you make your Universal Credit claim, most interactions will be face to face, by telephone or by post".

It does go on to say the other on-line facilities will be incorporated at a later date.

Any changes in circumstances will have to be reported via telephone as well.

The DWP are using an 0845 number which will incur significant costs from mobiles, and you will need a mobile to claim UC as some information are sent as text messages.

I find this shocking and a recipe for disaster in so many ways.

Where do you see the flaws in this?

http://www.propertytribes.com/unbelievable-universal-credit-shuns-digital-as-telephone-based-t-8654.html

[Snugglybear]

Jeez, it pays well doesn't it. I may move to Norwich. They can't discriminate against me because of my sex or my age can they?

Please, please, please apply for the job and find out!

[GinAndPlatonic]

Please, please, please apply for the job and find out!

Don`t forget to take your tutu !

[OnionTerror]

Yep.It has no chance of working at all,none,zilch,zero.Its incredible to think the media simply accept the rolls outs are going ok when its just single unemployed new claims being done.A 10 year old can work those out by hand.There is no way they can extend to families because the IT doesn't and wont work.To do even one medium sized town by hand would take the whole DWP.

They will keep rolling out slowly to single unemployed new cases.They might even add a few new family cases in one job centre to look like things are moving.UC will then be scrapped after the next election.

Plus at least the universal jobmatch site you have to join under UC has lap dancing jobs on still.

https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2135320&JobTitle=Table+Top+Dancer+Norwich&rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=table+dancer&where=&q=&AVSDM=

Under UC if you refused to apply for that job if it was mailed to you by a workfare provider as suitable you can be sanctioned.

...so the Tories are moralising over porn, page 3 and somesuch, and they allow adverts that ilk to appear all over their universal jobmatch website..

[durhamborn]

...so the Tories are moralising over porn, page 3 and somesuch, and they allow adverts that ilk to appear all over their universal jobmatch website..

Yes,and you can have your benefits stopped if you fail to apply for it if a workfare provider added it to your account as suitable.Almost all the "jobs" on the Universal Jobmatch site are fake in some way.10 million+ people will be on there under conditions if UC comes in.

[sombreroloco]

Wtf? People get what they pay in? What kind of thatcherite fascist are you?

This is how the system works in most of continental Europe (yes, those evil Socialists!) and is indeed more generous to the unemployed than ours.

[spyguy]

This is how the system works in most of continental Europe (yes, those evil Socialists!) and is indeed more generous to the unemployed than ours.

Yes + No.

Providing you've paid in then they tend to be more generous as you get a percentage of your salary.

Then you get a drop at 18 months. Then nothing by about about year 2.

This is how our system is.

Our benefits tend to pay out more - scams, extras, etc -the more people stay on it.

Its a complete rip off for the people who the system is meant to be for - working people who lose their job.

For all out 'market based' system, out welfare system, state and NHS are more clunking socialist and central planned than most of those socialist European countries we read about.