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Sancho Panza

Graduates:242,725 In 2012 Versus An Estimated 60,000 Graduate Jobs

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10169390/Graduate-background-checks-as-85-compete-for-each-job.html

' Rising numbers of employers are carrying out background checks on graduates during the annual recruitment round amid political pressure to boost social mobility, it emerged.

A new report reveals that more than one-in-six top companies currently vet applicants’ socio-economic status and numbers will increase to almost four-in-10 in coming years.

In most cases, companies screen graduates to find out whether they went to a state or private school, to check on levels of parental education and to judge overall family income, it was revealed.

The study – by the Association of Graduate Recruiters – found that many businesses were undertaking the checks because of a national focus on “fair access” to the jobs market combined with a need to “diversify” their workforce.

But the disclosure is likely to prompt concerns that at students from middle–class backgrounds will face discrimination simply due to their choice of school or parents’ earning power.

It comes as figures from the AGR indicated an unprecedented surge in competition for jobs nationally.

According to figures, the total number of university leavers being hired by Britain’s leading companies will drop by almost four per cent to 18,913 this year, just as record numbers of students are preparing to complete their degrees.

The AGR report revealed that an average of 85 students will compete for every job this year compared with 73 just 12 months earlier.

In the food and consumer goods sector, 211 students are applying for each job, with numbers as high as 135 in banking and 130 in retail.

But the study reveals that employers are now going to extra lengths to ensure that the best positions are not monopolised by a small number of graduates from relatively well-off homes.

It follows attacks from the likes of Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, and Alan Milburn, the Government’s social mobility tsar, on companies that hand out internships to the sons and daughters of existing directors instead of giving a leg up to young people from poor backgrounds.

The AGR study – based on a survey of 209 leading employers – found that 15.6 per cent currently collect data on graduates’ social background during the applications process and a further 21 per cent plan to do so.

Some 29 per cent of companies currently have initiatives to “increase the socio-economic diversity of the graduates they recruit” – up from 24 per cent a year ago.'

HESA data confirms that there were 242,725 graduates in 2011/2.Edit to add the 242,725 is for UK domiciled/funded students.

Data on the number of graduate jobs is harder to quantify for obvious reasons.The Guardian hazard a guess at 60,000 for 2012.

It does seem remarkable that people still keep going to lower ranked Universities.In fact it does seem remarkable that people keep going to Uni full stop.

Edited by Sancho Panza

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this is the basic flaw in the 50% going to university target set by Labour - it raises expectations that a degree from a second class university will hand the graduate the world on a plate whereas in reality they would have been better starting work at the bottom at 18 and working their way up via training/apprenticeships.

back in the day when university was free and miserly grants were given - very few went to university and the jobs were there for those that did (they were the top 10%) because they were the most able. ( this is always a bone of contention with boomer bashing posters who feel it should still all be free for the 50% B) )

not sure I like the idea of positive discrimination - everyone should get a job on their own merits not because they are in someway disadvantaged by socio-economic background or any other characteristic.

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There's a BBC story about the top 10 (in terms of numbers of recruits) graduate UK employers.

Look at the list, I lol'd.

Edited by SeeYouNextTuesday

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There's a BBC story about the top 10 (in terms of numbers of recruits) graduate UK employers.

Look at the list, I lol'd.

Yup, that's going to soak them up:

Teach First - 1,261

PwC - 1,220

Deloitte - 1,200

Civil Service Fast Stream - 750

Army - 700

Ernst & Young - 690

KPMG - 520

Accenture - 390

JP Morgan - 350

IBM - 350

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23227967

Edited by cheeznbreed

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Yup, that's soak them up:

Teach First - 1,261

PwC - 1,220

Deloitte - 1,200

Civil Service Fast Stream - 750

Army - 700

Ernst & Young - 690

KPMG - 520

Accenture - 390

JP Morgan - 350

IBM - 350

http://www.bbc.co.uk...cation-23227967

City Link, TNT, Parcelforce- 120,000

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Yup, that's going to soak them up:

Teach First - 1,261

PwC - 1,220

Deloitte - 1,200

Civil Service Fast Stream - 750

Army - 700

Ernst & Young - 690

KPMG - 520

Accenture - 390

JP Morgan - 350

IBM - 350

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23227967

They should publish a list of the real top recruiters of graduates. I'd reckon:

Tesco, Sainsburys, Asda, Morrisons, PC World, Carphone Warehouse etc etc etc.

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<snip> this is the basic flaw in the 50% going to university target set by Labour - it raises expectations that a degree from a second class university will hand the graduate the world on a plate whereas in reality they would have been better starting work at the bottom at 18 and working their way up via training/apprenticeships.<snip>

Training/apprenticeships provided by whom? In what industries/sectors?

Genuine question - I just don't see them. The "apprenticeships" offered on the CareersWales website, for instance, are mainly "Administrative Assistant", "Trainee Sales Assistant", "Retail Apprentice", "Apprentice Nursery Assistant". What kind of jobs are they going to lead to, if any? The same job but paid minimum wage instead of apprentice wage (currently £2.65 per hour), probably. If you're lucky and the employers don't just keep taking on "apprentices" rather than actual employees.

Might be an idea to read the Richard Review of Apprenticeships http://www.schoolforstartups.co.uk/richard-review/richard-review-full.pdf

Also, I really don't think "working your way up" exists for most people any more. The nature and structure of most workplaces just don't make it possible.

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Best of both worlds: become a trainee and gain a fabulously renowned degree: http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/mcd/corporate_careers/training_and_development/hamburger_university.html

You don't have to work for them in the US - MacDonalds has a campus college place in East Finchley. However, I think the highest qualification you can get with them is a Foundation Degree.

However, KFC is offering a BA honours degree in business management, in conjunction with De Montfort University in Leicester, costing £9,000 for three years, half funded by the company and the rest by the student. You have to already be a manager with KFC, though.

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Training/apprenticeships provided by whom? In what industries/sectors?

Genuine question - I just don't see them. The "apprenticeships" offered on the CareersWales website, for instance, are mainly "Administrative Assistant", "Trainee Sales Assistant", "Retail Apprentice", "Apprentice Nursery Assistant". What kind of jobs are they going to lead to, if any? The same job but paid minimum wage instead of apprentice wage (currently £2.65 per hour), probably. If you're lucky and the employers don't just keep taking on "apprentices" rather than actual employees.

Might be an idea to read the Richard Review of Apprenticeships http://www.schoolforstartups.co.uk/richard-review/richard-review-full.pdf

Also, I really don't think "working your way up" exists for most people any more. The nature and structure of most workplaces just don't make it possible.

yes I agree it is a problem but doing this kind of start up job at 18 is better than going to a fairly useless uni, graduate with a fairly useless degree and still have to start at the bottom. (with a 'I'm a graduate ' state of mind and debts to pay off for 3 years spent drinking the student bar dry)

it is also tied in with high housing costs, lack of 'real jobs' for non-academic youngsters (particularly boys). :(

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this is the basic flaw in the 50% going to university target set by Labour - it raises expectations that a degree from a second class university will hand the graduate the world on a plate whereas in reality they would have been better starting work at the bottom at 18 and working their way up via training/apprenticeships.

back in the day when university was free and miserly grants were given - very few went to university and the jobs were there for those that did (they were the top 10%) because they were the most able. ( this is always a bone of contention with boomer bashing posters who feel it should still all be free for the 50% B) )

not sure I like the idea of positive discrimination - everyone should get a job on their own merits not because they are in someway disadvantaged by socio-economic background or any other characteristic.

I don't think most have great expectations - they know half their peers are degreed-up too. They were sold this as their defence against competition from their rising Far East counterparts for decent well-paid jobs. They weren't told the globalisation game was rigged from the start, and those jobs that were (and are) being shipped overseas in great swathes, are going to disappear anyway.

I have faith that eventually the youth will find their way to adapt and thrive, but what a bloody mess their predecessors are leaving behind. And what a waste of so many years of their lives.

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( this is always a bone of contention with boomer bashing posters who feel it should still all be free for the 50% B) )

Not true in my experience. Most of the 'boomer bashers' I've spoken to regard the 50% target as a mistake. Their problem is that the 10% of boomers who went to university for free are as a general rule the ones now in government, imposing mortgage-scale student debts on the equivalent 10% in today's generation. The other 40% (specifically, the provision of sub-degree education and training that is geared to what the economy needs) is essentially a separate issue.

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Not true in my experience. Most of the 'boomer bashers' I've spoken to regard the 50% target as a mistake. Their problem is that the 10% of boomers who went to university for free are as a general rule the ones now in government, imposing mortgage-scale student debts on the equivalent 10% in today's generation. The other 40% (specifically, the provision of sub-degree education and training that is geared to what the economy needs) is essentially a separate issue.

I think you will find that only a small proportion of university educated baby boomers are in government (650 MPs in government and of those lots are under 50), the rest are retired, dead, senile, emigrated or otherwise not applicable.

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BBC article Teach First scheme 'biggest recruiter of graduates' cites High Fliers Research analysis of 100 major graduate recruiters as source. Page 13 therein.

Industry or Business Sector

Accounting & professional services---------4,600

Armed Forces--------------------------------------830

Banking & finance-------------------------------1,097

Consulting-------------------------------------------675

Consumer goods----------------------------------359

Engineering & industrial------------------------1,510

Investment banking-----------------------------2,700

IT & telecommunications------------------------695

Law---------------------------------------------------795

Media-------------------------------------------------455

Oil & energy-----------------------------------------640

Public sector--------------------------------------2,305

Retailing--------------------------------------------1,375

ALL SECTORS----------------------------------18,306

Source - The Graduate Market in 2013 Recruitment target for 2013, as published in Sept 2012

The Department for Education acknowledges they need to recruit 1,000 physics teachers every year for a decade.

Teaching always a massive destination for graduates and there is a lot of churn at the bottom of the profession as people try it for a couple of years then go and do something else, for all kinds of reasons. Running a big scheme like Teach First and calling it graduate recruitment (which you would never have done with Post-Graduate Certificate in Education course places), makes one thing look like another thing. The same people are still in front of kids, mostly enthusiastic, mostly doing a good enough job, all unable to work out who is actually humming... ;)

What strikes me is that if you tot up the accountants, consultants, lawyers and the bankers you have 9,867, fully 54% of the total. It's no wonder the debt/property Ponzi scheme appears to continue to run like a Swiss watch despite all its troubles. A lot of our most talented young people are working hard on the problem of how to keep everyone else working for The Man!

[Edit: typos and a rounding error 9,867/18306 is 54 to 2 s.f. not 53. D'oh.]

Edited by ChairmanOfTheBored

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What strikes me is that if you tot up the accountants, consultants, lawyers and the bankers you have 9,867, fully 53% of the total. It's no wonder the debt/property Ponzi scheme appears to continue to run like a Swiss watch despite all its troubles. A lot of our most talented young people are working hard on the problem of how to keep everyone else working for The Man!

That's precisely why I lol'd

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The Department for Education acknowledges they need to recruit 1,000 physics teachers every year for a decade.

So even in the midst of an economic depression, Britain is short of 10,000 physics teachers ???

There's 3000 physics graduates produced in the UK every year.

Apparently they're recruiting 900 (from somewhere) per annum into teaching.

I can totally understand why someone might want to study physics, but why someone would want to pay U.K. student fees to do so is beyond me.

Interesting to see if they ever fulfil teacher supply and demand.

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I can totally understand why someone might want to study physics, but why someone would want to pay U.K. student fees to do so is beyond me.

My experience has been that although there is a great variety of reasons why school leavers vote with their feet and head off to Uni, many seek to study anything, physics included, in order to take part in the festival of lie-ins, lager and good times that is undergraduate life. As they have no real experience of independent economic life, much less debt, it doesn't weigh particularly heavily on the decision.

Ever thus to dead-beats, ;) .

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So even in the midst of an economic depression, Britain is short of 10,000 physics teachers ???

Yes and no. The 10,000 figure comes from the attrition of present body of physics teachers in post coming on fast as the demographics are top heavy - lots of old dudes knocking on retirement, and it also expresses a wish to rebalance the stock of science teachers. Biologists are over-represented, so to get back to a Bio:Chem::Phys = 1:1:1, you need more physics graduates. Anyway, dragging the thread OT. Apologies! Enough already.

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My experience has been that although there is a great variety of reasons why school leavers vote with their feet and head off to Uni, many seek to study anything, physics included, in order to take part in the festival of lie-ins, lager and good times that is undergraduate life. As they have no real experience of independent economic life, much less debt, it doesn't weigh particularly heavily on the decision.

Ever thus to dead-beats, ;) .

Yup. One of my nieces is doing a degree at an art college. Completely pointless. I suspect it is because her mother didnt go to Uni and wants to have kids that 'make it. The kid will leave with debts of 40k+, or her parents will write it off. Imagine what you could instead do with 40k gifted at 19 to set yourself up for life!

I do not bother discussing the insanity any more with them.

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Training/apprenticeships provided by whom? In what industries/sectors?

Genuine question - I just don't see them. The "apprenticeships" offered on the CareersWales website, for instance, are mainly "Administrative Assistant", "Trainee Sales Assistant", "Retail Apprentice", "Apprentice Nursery Assistant". What kind of jobs are they going to lead to, if any? The same job but paid minimum wage instead of apprentice wage (currently £2.65 per hour), probably. If you're lucky and the employers don't just keep taking on "apprentices" rather than actual employees.

Might be an idea to read the Richard Review of Apprenticeships http://www.schoolforstartups.co.uk/richard-review/richard-review-full.pdf

Also, I really don't think "working your way up" exists for most people any more. The nature and structure of most workplaces just don't make it possible.

Indeed. The notion of working hard and being good at what you do is nostalgic at best and imo only contributes < 15% of your progression. Seems to me the people 'progressing' with their careers are those who network and/or job hop every one or two years. Thing is job hopping has become a tad more difficult over the last few years.

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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