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richc

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Looking at the local news online brought this amusing (?) comparison between how the BBC reports the news, and what actually happens.

From the BBC:

Muslim religious leaders condemn child sex grooming

The sexual grooming of children has been condemned by Muslim leaders across the UK in a sermon read to thousands of worshippers.

From the Oxford Mail (where the latest round of gang rapes happened):

National sermon on child grooming shunned as a stunt by many Muslims in Oxford

SEVERAL Oxford mosques did not take part in yesterday’s simultaneous anti-grooming sermons held across the country.

Hundred of sermons took place after a gang of seven men from Oxford were given prison sentences totalling at least 95 years for sexually exploiting girls as young as 11 in Oxford. Five were of Pakistani origin and two were from North Africa.

But Oxford Islamic leaders yesterday said it was wrong to link child sex grooming cases to their religion as the abusers were not practising Muslims.

Together Against Grooming (Tag) said 500 mosques across the country were taking part in sermons to address the issue at Friday prayers.

But those who attended the Madina Mosque in Stanley Road, the Bath Street Mosque and Oxford Central Mosque in Manzil Way said they did not take part.

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grooming the vulnerable, rape, imprisonment, beating, and everything else that went on are all CRIMES.

not sure where religion comes into it.

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In the early morning reports on the conviction on Thursday or Friday AM (can't remember which day). Radio 4 prefaced the report with the statement::

"most groomng is carried out online by white men "

I've no idea whether that's true or not, for the UK it probably would be in terms of absolute numbers, but I can't see how you'd prove or disprove it either way, or why it's relevant. It did sound like a very odd thing to say, and I noticed it was dropped from the later reports.

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grooming the vulnerable, rape, imprisonment, beating, and everything else that went on are all CRIMES.

not sure where religion comes into it.

The short answer is you're not going to run foul of the law if you try and make it a religious issue.

If you make it a racial issue you will.

I'm looking forward to the BBC and other institutions putting all their staff through 'Why it's wrong to **** children' seminars and that not being seen as some kind of admission of guilt. Pro football teams might want to think about sending their players on 'Why rape is a no no' training courses as well.

If someone gets a preacher in a mosque on tape advocating gang rape I'll bite. Otherwise, I'll be putting this stuff down to importing a load of hillbillies from some of the most messed-up places in the world.

As for the whites being groomers thing, I've mentioned this before, but I've travelled to various places in the world where the locals automatically assumed I was in the market to **** children simply because I was a white, older male travelling on my own. I could only conclude a lot of that sort of thing must go on I (and I'd be guessing that whether those whites were Christian, Muslim or Atheist wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it)

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As for the whites being groomers thing, I've mentioned this before, but I've travelled to various places in the world where the locals automatically assumed I was in the market to **** children simply because I was a white, older male travelling on my own. I could only conclude a lot of that sort of thing must go on I (and I'd be guessing that whether those whites were Christian, Muslim or Atheist wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it)

I am afraid I have been offered small girls (and boys) under age bottoms too, for a fee! :blink:

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If someone gets a preacher in a mosque on tape advocating gang rape I'll bite. Otherwise, I'll be putting this stuff down to importing a load of hillbillies from some of the most messed-up places in the world.

HILLBILLYIST!!!

As for the whites being groomers thing, I've mentioned this before, but I've travelled to various places in the world where the locals automatically assumed I was in the market to **** children simply because I was a white, older male travelling on my own. I could only conclude a lot of that sort of thing must go on I (and I'd be guessing that whether those whites were Christian, Muslim or Atheist wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it)

Sex tourists may well be mostly white.

In more traditional, browner countries you don't need to travel to indulge in such things as its part of the culture:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/01/27/kandahar-men-return-to-original-love-teenage-boys/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Afghanistan

Despite the negative social attitudes and legal prohibitions, there is an institutionalized form of bisexuality within Afghan culture. This occurs when boys are kidnapped to act as sexual slaves for adult men, typically in a militia, or when an adult man buys sexual favors from young boys with money or gifts.

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grooming the vulnerable, rape, imprisonment, beating, and everything else that went on are all CRIMES.

not sure where religion comes into it.

I gather the accused and convicted in these cases did not view the young girls they abused as fellow human beings at least partly because the young girls they abused were not fellow Muslims.

That's where religion comes into it.

But maybe there is no point trying to understand criminals motives. I don't think so, but its a point you could argue.

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Who cares what the islamic PR machine is spouting this week?

1500 years of well documented history seals it for me. Islam is an ideology of violence and conquest. They're proud of it too. Its not going to suddenly change because a couple have been outed with their pants down.

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If someone gets a preacher in a mosque on tape advocating gang rape I'll bite. Otherwise, I'll be putting this stuff down to importing a load of hillbillies from some of the most messed-up places in the world.

Mohammed was a paedo...good enough for you?

They get told they'll get 72 virgins if they blow up the infidels. Virgins tend to be underage, at least in 21st century UK.

Yes, yes, i know, christians were bad too. Thankfully, most christians are now senile old grannies...

Its not where they are from, it IS the ideology, it IS Islam.

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I gather the accused and convicted in these cases did not view the young girls they abused as fellow human beings at least partly because the young girls they abused were not fellow Muslims.

That's where religion comes into it.

But maybe there is no point trying to understand criminals motives. I don't think so, but its a point you could argue.

Islam is by definition a supremacist ideology. It looks down on unbelievers as unclean, Kaffirs or whatever insult it is this week.

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HILLBILLYIST!!!

Sex tourists may well be mostly white.

In more traditional, browner countries you don't need to travel to indulge in such things as its part of the culture:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/01/27/kandahar-men-return-to-original-love-teenage-boys/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Afghanistan

Despite the negative social attitudes and legal prohibitions, there is an institutionalized form of bisexuality within Afghan culture. This occurs when boys are kidnapped to act as sexual slaves for adult men, typically in a militia, or when an adult man buys sexual favors from young boys with money or gifts.

Paedos are everywhere, unless they know they are going to get caught. The difference is Islam is not 'just' a religion, its a complete legal and social framework, thus British law will always come secondary. You cannot integrate into secular western democracy AND be truly Islamic. The two are fundamentally opposed.

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IMO.....this has little to do with religion but a lot to do with how these people respect women especially women different to their own women. ;)

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In the early morning reports on the conviction on Thursday or Friday AM (can't remember which day). Radio 4 prefaced the report with the statement::

"most groomng is carried out online by white men "

I've no idea whether that's true or not, for the UK it probably would be in terms of absolute numbers, but I can't see how you'd prove or disprove it either way, or why it's relevant. It did sound like a very odd thing to say, and I noticed it was dropped from the later reports.

I think its most likely that the only countries that care about paedophillia enough to document it happen to be white countries. In most the world its just regarded as normal or turned a blind eye to. Why else would most white paedos go to south east asia? Its because its a lot easier to get away with there.

I doubt if there is any racial/ethnic prevalence, Im sure Islam encourages it though.

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Islam is by definition a supremacist ideology. It looks down on unbelievers as unclean, Kaffirs or whatever insult it is this week.

In fairness, I'm not convinced that other religions are wild about unbelievers either.

I think in the UK, we are so used to people getting married in church and maybe also going to christenings and funerals in church whilst at the same time being indifferent to stuff it says in our own holy book that we assume everyone else just does it for show and because its traditional and what have you.

You've only got to go 22 miles across the channel to see mass protests a million strong against the legalizalization of gay marriage to see that foreigners often take their religions very seriously indeed.

Its us, who are the weirdos.

WEIRD (Western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) People

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I think its most likely that the only countries that care about paedophillia enough to document it happen to be white countries. In most the world its just regarded as normal or turned a blind eye to. Why else would most white paedos go to south east asia? Its because its a lot easier to get away with there.

I doubt if there is any racial/ethnic prevalence, Im sure Islam encourages it though.

I actually lived for a number of years in a majority black country. My wife is a nurse and I socialised with a lot of doctors, nurses and socail worker/health care types. I didn't see any statistics but I did hear a few stories (of the 'what turned up in A&E last night' variety) which indicated that in majority black countries, paedophiles are overwhelmingly black. Doesn't seem in the least bit surprising to me yet I often get the impression from reading discussions like these that some contributors would be astonished by such a possibility.

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In more traditional, browner countries you don't need to travel to indulge in such things as its part of the culture:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MA11Df03.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/01/27/kandahar-men-return-to-original-love-teenage-boys/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Afghanistan

Despite the negative social attitudes and legal prohibitions, there is an institutionalized form of bisexuality within Afghan culture. This occurs when boys are kidnapped to act as sexual slaves for adult men, typically in a militia, or when an adult man buys sexual favors from young boys with money or gifts.

These would be some of the hillbillies I had in mind.

Wikipedia has a bountiful entry on pederasty, both classical and post-classical. There's been a lot of it about, all over the place.

I'll be leaving this thread alone here on. This Off Topic Islam thing is like Groundhog Day without the jokes. It'd be a lot more interesting if one of the Islamist Supremacists turned up one day and I could lay into one of them for a change.

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In other words, people from all countries and cultures commit crimes.

In a country where the majority of the population are white, the majority of paedophiles will be...white. In a country where the majority are black, the majority of paedophiles will be...[Answers on a postcode]

Criminal behaviour is what it is - a natural, maladaptive part of unsupressed human nature. Of course people will always try and turn it into an issue about religious politics, racial politics, sexual politics or whatever other brand of sh1tey politics they're trying to peddle. If we buy it, more fool us.

P

I think you're being over-dismissive of what's going on here.

It doesn't seem surprising to me that what happened in Oxford happened where and how it did, which is not unrelated to Oxford being the least affordable place to live in the UK (as this is supposed to be a housing-related discussion). It was pretty obvious for some time what was going on. The girls' parents had been begging the police and the local authorities to do something about it, but their concerns were completely dismissed by the middle-class, right-on types who run Oxford and look down their noses at the white working class population who are "racist", "environmentally insensitive", and "have no taste".

The fact that the rapists were Muslims is just about irrelevant (not that the religion doesn't seem to obviously preach that women and non-believers are inferior). The authorities, however, knew that these girls were suffering, but stood back and did nothing about it.

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Isn't there a very long thread somewhere else about this very same thing?

For what it's worth, I think there is a positive shift going on in the world of PC politics...people are willing to stand up and say that there is an issue without swinging into rhetoric and extremism. "Greys" are very difficult to deal with, temptation is always to swing back into black or white.

Chris Morris had it right - the most revealing and amusing thing about these situations is how quick people are to jump on the back of an 'issue' and get excited about it. Instead of getting closer to a real solution you just get reactionary gestures and useless public frenzies.

P

PC politics only exists in black and white. If it admits that the world exists in grey tones, it moves from being Politically Correct to simple common sense, something far more mundane, and less useful.

I think that if you look at the BBC's response to this, you'll find that they are by no means abandoning Political Correctness. Lee Rigby was murdered by islamic extremists and the BBC reacted by going on an all out campaign to vilify the EDL.

On the whole, the idea of a state broadcaster makes a lot of sense in the United Kingdom, and the BBC makes some good programmes, but, at the same time, they engage in a lot of simply inexcusable behaviour. Their very funding model is extraordinarily unfair -- it's probably the most regressive tax in Britain. The management and "talent" are wildly overpaid considering that the BBC is the majority of the market in the UK, and these people have very limited options for working at competitor organizations. And I won't even go into the quantity of pure dross pumped out by the BBC (Homes Under the Hammer, series 53?).

The reason that the BBC gets away with this -- the reason that the people who work there can looks themselves in the mirror in the morning -- is that the BBC are the "good guys". They're not racist, xenophobic, money grubbers like anyone who works for Rupert Murdoch, i.e. they're Politically Correct, and because even "good guys" occasionally have faults, the people at the BBC are able to dismiss their failings.

The key thing about Political Correctness, though, is that it only has value if it's scarce. If everyone believes that racial discrimination is bad, then there's no value in making a big show that you believe that it's bad. At that point, it's common sense and there's no scarcity value. The BBC would then be judged on the same basis as their competitors, and people might start asking difficult questions about why the BBC is receiving such generous treatment. In essence, there's always an inherent conflict between Political Correctness and common sense.

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I am always wary of the phrase 'muslim leaders'. Islam being a religion, a muslim leader would, strictly, always be an Imam or other cleric by definition. What they preach is their own business, as long as it is within the law of the country.

I do not, therefore, in a free country, expect anyone to be required to preach, or attend a sermon, on any particular subject on any particular day.

Some people pop up in the media, particularly the BBC, as 'muslim community leaders'. Who are they? Who elected them? Who decided that they are representative? What mandate do they have? Whose agenda do they follow? Why should we pay any attention to what they say or imagine that it is representative of muslim views?

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Guest eight

Some people pop up in the media, particularly the BBC, as 'muslim community leaders'. Who are they? Who elected them? Who decided that they are representative? What mandate do they have? Whose agenda do they follow? Why should we pay any attention to what they say or imagine that it is representative of muslim views?

You could say the same about me and David Cameron.

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I am always wary of the phrase 'muslim leaders'. Islam being a religion, a muslim leader would, strictly, always be an Imam or other cleric by definition. What they preach is their own business, as long as it is within the law of the country.

I do not, therefore, in a free country, expect anyone to be required to preach, or attend a sermon, on any particular subject on any particular day.

Some people pop up in the media, particularly the BBC, as 'muslim community leaders'. Who are they? Who elected them? Who decided that they are representative? What mandate do they have? Whose agenda do they follow? Why should we pay any attention to what they say or imagine that it is representative of muslim views?

I don't think we live in a 'free country' anymore. But aside from that, or maybe related to that, how can you have a functioning society if you do not have some degree of shared values?

I was browsing a book on etiquette the other day, It was American and written in the late nineties, but still, there was a section on how you should behave if your child invites you to their homosexual/lesbian wedding. I pondered whether most of our Muslim community would find the authors advice agreeable. Maybe I'm being judgemental but my impression was that this kind of thing will collapse in the face of religion - proper religion, not the pretendy Church of England, wimmin vicars conducting gay wedding variety we have here.

WRT comuuuunity leaders. I think there is a push and pull thing going on. The sort of people who run the BBC, who run the country, you know...the establishment, they're the sort of people who used to run the Empire, and no doubt their granpapa told them that when granpapa was administrating Lesser Nyasaland, he used to negotiate with the tribal elders. So they look for tribal elders in places like Luton and Bradford. The push bit is local big mouths seeing a chance to grab some gubmint money. A great account of this from the USA in the 1970s is Maumauing the Flak Catchers by Tom Wolfe - its hilarious!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Chic_%26_Mau-Mauing_the_Flak_Catchers

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If someone publicly claims to be a religious leader they should be sectioned until which time they come to their senses.

If I have an imaginary friend called bob and I talk to him all the time in public I would be classified as mentally ill, how is this any different from a religious idiot.

If we could just suck all the profit out of houses for the public good and use some of it to fix all these nut cases, we might have a better country.

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PC politics only exists in black and white. If it admits that the world exists in grey tones, it moves from being Politically Correct to simple common sense, something far more mundane, and less useful.

Isnip

PC Politics in "black and white" is essential in a tick box environment.

No-one in charge can be held accountable...it is impossible to argue with a "correct" person....theyve ticked the boxes, they are correct.

The List is in charge.

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I think you're being over-dismissive of what's going on here.

I recall some time ago that the BNP used gangs of Muslim/Asian men raping underage girls as part of their GE campaign.

It was censored as being so racist as to be illegal. Unfortunately it now turns out that the BNP were right and that the mainstream media and the establishment were wrong.

And thats really coming to something - when the BNP have it nailed and the supposedly respectable mainstream simply plays the race card.

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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