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Nick Boles Heckled By Cpre

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/10146962/Nick-Boles-suffers-heckling-and-walk-outs-at-stormy-CPRE-meeting.html

Banging the lectern, Mr Boles said: “Look at Germany where real house prices have been constant for 30 years, where houses have got bigger, better designed, more beautiful, more eco-friendly.

“Why? Because they release enough land, to build enough houses, to meet demand. Nobody is doing what we crazily do which is put all of our income into houses, bank our whole retirement into the value of our house – it is completely nuts.”

This prompted more heckles from the CPRE members, and two walked out. Outside the first member, who declined to be named, said: “He is not listening.”

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In his speech Mr Boles had told the CPRE that blocking new housing developments was slowly condemning rural villages to be “museum exhibits, not so much protected as embalmed”.

...

In remarks to the National House Building Council, he said badly designed new homes “undermined” property prices. He said: “If you design better places, if you design more beautiful buildings, communities will release land for development.”

Interesting. Sounds good to me but will we get any sensible policy out of this?

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More to the point, Germany have consistently had high, real terms interest rates.

People have invested in real things, rather than speculation.

Sort that out first. Then sort out ever-increasing population levels. Only after both of those have been done do you have any justification whatsoever of making the place even more built up. A plan to "save" villages by dragging them down to the same level as every other dull town is hardly a plan.

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Just look at the old f*rts in the audience. If I ever get like that, shoot me. I speak as an old f*rt myself :blink:

Edited by Secure Tenant

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/10146962/Nick-Boles-suffers-heckling-and-walk-outs-at-stormy-CPRE-meeting.html

Banging the lectern, Mr Boles said: “Look at Germany where real house prices have been constant for 30 years, where houses have got bigger, better designed, more beautiful, more eco-friendly.

“Why? Because they release enough land, to build enough houses, to meet demand. Nobody is doing what we crazily do which is put all of our income into houses, bank our whole retirement into the value of our house – it is completely nuts.”

This prompted more heckles from the CPRE members, and two walked out. Outside the first member, who declined to be named, said: “He is not listening.”

I like him, a lot. :D

He is absolutely right.

And has the balls to say it to the CPRE, the Telegraph, and Telegraph's readers. "Respec".

We need more politicians like him.

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There was more anger among the CPRE members when Mr Boles said he wished England was more like Germany, where property prices are low because more land is released for building.

Banging the lectern, Mr Boles said: “Look at Germany where real house prices have been constant for 30 years, where houses have got bigger, better designed, more beautiful, more eco-friendly.

“Why? Because they release enough land, to build enough houses, to meet demand. Nobody is doing what we crazily do which is put all of our income into houses, bank our whole retirement into the value of our house – it is completely nuts.”

It's doubtful that planning is fundamental to Germany's lower house prices etc. To start with their population hasn't been driven to increase by the same amount as in the UK over several decades and in fact for the last 10 years Germany's population has fallen.

http://

www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/population

Also it's unlikely that they have continuously followed policies like Help to Buy to support housing at the expense of everything else because Germany has a real economy not one just relying on housing and financial chicanery.

So the man who claimed what Boles said is "untrue" very likely has a good point - at the very least in relation to why Germany's housing market has been more constant.

If Boles wants to discuss the benefits of relaxing planning then he should find better reasons and justifications than in comparing the UK's housing market with Germany's.

Edited by billybong

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Sort that out first. Then sort out ever-increasing population levels. Only after both of those have been done do you have any justification whatsoever of making the place even more built up. A plan to "save" villages by dragging them down to the same level as every other dull town is hardly a plan.

The population at present requires more housing, are you happy to see your kids paying more than you do, for less, commuting further and having more stresses on family life as a result, in order to make a point about the immigration policy of Governments past and present? Even if immigration was dropped to zero today, it leaves a legacy problem to deal with. Not dealing with it is just cruel to future generations.

Part of the problem is that few other than big developers can get planning permission leaving small towns and villages vulnerable to being swamped with sh*tty newbuild estates. It need not be like that, but that requires changes to planning laws. "No building anywhere" is not a tenable position in the circumstances.

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“What these villages need is some noise, bustle, young blood, teenagers kicking a ball around after school, teenagers sitting on a wall nervously flirting, young mothers and fathers reaching for a pint in the local after an hour digging the vegetable patch or doing the ironing.”

Beware as they'll be passing laws to enforce that sort of stuff if people aren't careful.

Apart from that there's plenty of places where that sort of stuff already goes on even without their permission but maybe Boles doesn't see it as he should get out and about more.

Trying to painting an idealized picture of life, village or otherwise, is hardly a step forward in terms of creating good policy.

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Trying to painting an idealized picture of life, village or otherwise, is hardly a step forward in terms of creating good policy.

He's trying to paint it in words they might be willing to listen to, but he's right in essence. A village, town or city where young people can't afford to live is not sustainable*.

* okay - a few chocolate box villages can probably survive, but we're talking about large areas and far too many of them.

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Been following Nick Boles for a while, I've not seen him utter anything with which I disagreed so far.

I did send him an email of support some time last year. I'm sure he gets plenty slagging him off.

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This talk of population is rubbish, unless you plan on warming up the gas chambers. Even if immigration was 0 tomorrow the existing people still need to be housed.

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I did send him an email of support some time last year. I'm sure he gets plenty slagging him off.

I'm tempted to follow suit (although I will never vote tory) - do you know if he's said anything critical about HTB?

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http://

shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-house

Percapita.gif

Indeed the UK's average living space is relatively small (likely it's minimum allowed by law) and it's less than Germany's and a lot of other countries.

It's not got the lowest living space but it's getting there and it's well down the list. It's also notable that the countries with lower living space are generally associated with very low living standards.

The reasons Germany has lower house prices and bigger living space isn't fundamentally to do with more relaxed planning it's more to do with other aspects of the governments policies and if Boles wants to relax the UK's planning (in terms of freeing up more land to build on) then he ought to find better reasons than comparing with Germany's planning system of land release.

Relaxing the UK's planning laws will likely result in more housing (that is if they don't simultaneously demolish housing and that's a definite possibility to keep builders prices up - builders being the real beneficiaries) but it's almost a cast iron certainty that the average living space in the UK won't increase even in the new properties. In fact it's more likely that average living space in the UK will decline even further in future.

If people think that relaxing planning laws will in itself result in lower house prices then that's likely to be a serious mistake.

Edited by billybong

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" This prompted more heckles from the CPRE members, and two walked out. Outside the first member, who declined to be named, said: “He is not listening.” "

No, YOU are not listening.

Spoiled children.

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Sort that out first. Then sort out ever-increasing population levels. Only after both of those have been done do you have any justification whatsoever of making the place even more built up. A plan to "save" villages by dragging them down to the same level as every other dull town is hardly a plan.

Remember that millions of retiring Brits emigrated to the Continent in this past decade, leaving behind "empty nests" = large family homes. We have some 7 million foreign born people living here and some 5 million Brits living abroad. Considering that many immigrants live in higher "housing density" than the emigrating Brits, then the NET effect of migration on housing may have been very small, or even neutral, or even reducing the demand. Do the maths. I think the "break-even point" would be 30%. I mean, if the average immigrant uses just 30% less housing space than the average Brit expat left behind (quite possible), then the impact of migration on housing would have been neutral.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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I'm tempted to follow suit (although I will never vote tory) - do you know if he's said anything critical about HTB?

I'm not aware of him saying anything on the subject. But bear in mind he's very junior and is merely Planning Minister, so anything other than planning is outside his remit. I guess slagging off his boss's ideas would be bad for his career....

On everything regarding his own little bailiwick though he seems sound.

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More to the point, Germany have consistently had high, real terms interest rates.

People have invested in real things, rather than speculation.

German house prices probably have more to do with the lending criteria and historical experience than anything else.

Not sure about 'people there' - but H Henry said this before and I agree - German has operational leverage with its manufacturing facilities and it will not allow financial leverage at the same time - else it is suicidal.

UK doesn't have that much operational leverage and the demand for services are relatively more stable and hence it let this financial leverage run amok. Perhaps China will soon find out what it is like to have both operational and financial leverages.

Edited by easy2012

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I'm not aware of him saying anything on the subject. But bear in mind he's very junior and is merely Planning Minister, so anything other than planning is outside his remit. I guess slagging off his boss's ideas would be bad for his career....

In the video he says we should focus on making all housing more affordable and not subsidising sections of it so I'd guess he's not a fan of HTB.

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German house prices probably have more to do with the lending criteria and historical experience than anything else.

(...)

If lending criteria has been more important than the planning system then how come they have an average of 55m2 of housing space/person and we have only 33m2/person? IMPO planning must have played the main role.

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He's trying to paint it in words they might be willing to listen to, but he's right in essence. A village, town or city where young people can't afford to live is not sustainable*.

* okay - a few chocolate box villages can probably survive, but we're talking about large areas and far too many of them.

The audience more than likely thought he's trying to con us again which could have been one of the reasons the bloke shouted out "untrue". Maybe that blokes comment was even based on past experience.

Indeed places where young people can't live are ultimately unsustainable and maybe Boles should base his argument more along that sort of line rather than invent idealized pictures of village life and then the UK might be starting to get somewhere on housing and people in such meetings would even have been able to contribute positively to the discussion.

Edited by billybong

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So what has he done so far apart from generate a load of hot air ?

In terms of construction Tories are still building diddly squat.

My guess is that he is part of a Tory media campaign to attempt to appeal to the priced out while actually doing nothing at all.

As people have said in other threads, watch what the hands do and not what the mouth says.

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if nimbys want to maintain their nimby attitude then they should move. this sorts the problem as its no longer in their back yard.

you get a lot of villagers saying were being threatened by big housing developments but all areas were villages as once. London was a village once. society moves on.

they also dont own the area, they just live there. tomorrow they could be gone if they want to move.

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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