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Sledgehead

Dragon's Den: Such Lovely People

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Such beautiful qualities displayed by the dashing Peter Jones & Theo Paphitis, and this only the first in the series.

Guy comes in trying to get WiFi service off the ground. Wants 150k for 15% equity. Jones offers him 75k for 20%, Paphitis offers to partner up with them, supplying the outstanding 75k, again for 20%.

Elnaugh says "I don't have the tech experience of these guys, but I have marketing skills and I'm willing to put up the whole 150k for 38%.

The guy contemplates the offers on the table.

Before I go on, for those who don't know:

....Red Letter Days, the business run by television personality Rachel Elnaugh.

..... was sold {by its administrators} last night to Peter Jones and Theo Paphitis.

TheLawyer.com

Back in the Dragons' Den, Jones can see the guy needs his mind making up for him, so Jones says something of the form, well if I were in your position, I'd want to know something of the people I was going into business with. He then proceeds to rattle off his successes, as does Paphitis.

Having told the guy what amazing success stories they have been, they then, in sync, turn expectantly to Elnaugh, knowing all she has is the coppers in her pockets they gave her for her failed business.

Nice.... :(

It's business: it happens all the time. But on camera in front of the nation????

For those of you who are v.young or have managed to live a charmed life, know this: there aren't only people around who will sh!t on you. There are people around who rate themselves by the height from which they do it.

And saddest of all? The people who respect them for it....

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Sledge as far as I know she didnt tell the BBC till after the programes were made that she was in trouble!

As you say the braggarts boasted about their MultiMillion/Billion pound companies - then proceeded to screw 40% of the company off everyone they offered cash to!

As if they haven't got enough already :blink:

At least in the previous series it was 20-30%

If I was the guy who had multiple dragon offerings I would have told them to stuff it, kept hold of the 38%, then show the video to prospective, decent, financial providers - for 15%!

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I wasn't objecting to then telling us about their achievements or driving a hard bargain. It was simply the way they crushed her. After all, they waited til her business was in administration before they stepped up to the plate, so they've already screwed her once. Why demean her so pointedly and publicly. It just struck me as distatsteful.

I also think that otherwise nice people have a tendency to be sycophantic towards the ruthless. It's almost like the class geek who is flattered when the jocks offer to tak ehim out for a beer. He doesn't realise that as soon as he's done that computer sciences assignment for them he'll find himself debagged in the middle of the shopping mall. Some people will do anything for a taste of acceptance. I wonder how long it will be before the Wifi guy finds himself on the end of a similar roasting....

I agree that Elnaugh shouldn't be on the prog. I reckon she probably felt the same after that episode....

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I'm sure the guy after the money knew all about them anyway, but the key bloke in there was him. If you were going into business with someone wouldn't you want 2 proven successes rather than one proven failure?

Also, Rachel was a bit sneaky trying to undercut her colleagues. I'm not a business expert, but surely one of the first rules of business is that you don't get into a bidding war with your mates. One of you will lose (ie pay more than you need to). It doesn't help either of you. She started it by joining the bidding.

Or are they not mates, in which case it's fair enough for Theo and Jones to do what they had to do to get the deal done?

The guy with the racker stacker messed up though. If I had a business like that I'd concentrate on what they could offer me... 80% of a business run by me would certainly be worth considerably less after a year than 60% of a business run by me and Theo!!!!

FF

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i think the two male dragons got what they deserved.

bloke was willing to give 15%, they wanted 40.

he was willing to give way on 25% and they wouldn't give way on 1% each. w@nkers.

elnaugh brought them down a peg or two.

it was obvious he had a good business and had cornered the market - Theo jumped in without asking ANY questions of his own.

And what the hell is Bannatyne doing there? If it ain't a proven, working business model that he can copy then he can't see the future and isn't interested. I think he's just there to feed his (already massive ) ego.

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I'm sure the guy after the money knew all about them anyway, ... 80% of a business run by me would certainly be worth considerably less after a year than 60% of a business run by me and Theo!!!!

FF

I'm not questioning whether th ebusiness woud be worth more. The question is, would you??? See what I mean now? ;)

elnaugh brought them down a peg or two.

:blink: Presumably you mean they'd have felt more comfortable having a bird each to shaft rather than having to share the same one :blink:

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I thougth the fat sweaty guy with the racker stacker (even has a good easy to remember name) was the real hero. They tried to fleece him as well, offerd him the money for 40% of his business, he was only offering 15%, he told them where to stick it (in a very nice way).

I reckon it was a good idea (but what do I know), he already had people wanting to make them, I think they thought he was in a weaker position than he actually was.

good on him.

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I think all the dragons are up themselves in different ways, and I wouldn't wish to drive a business forward with any of them. It would be a case of, "I've built a multi-million pound company blah, blah I know best".

Now, I'm not denying they've done very well for themselves, apart from Rachel Elnaugh, but they would be a nightmare to work with.

I also admired that overweight guy and hope he makes a go of things. I'm sorry to say, if I was in his position, I would've probably taken the cash.

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I really don't get the point of this TV show. The first series was quite pointless and boring and yet they somehow decided to produce another series. It is simply the same format every week with the panel of "investors" each trying to get as much "air time" as they can (these guys seriously like the sound of their own voices).

As a business show it is irrelevant. Business financing is simply not done this way in the real world. The idea that they need to “secure” all of the funding on the first meeting or walk away with nothing and/or do a deal there and then on the spot is laughable.

Most of the “entrepreneurs” seeking funding are desperate, deluded or both. A simple review of a business plan would stop almost all of them even presenting their proposals. Almost all of them are at the very very early stages of start-up and actually don’t need financing. They thing they need is people with the right skills and/or access to quality business advice which they could get for free or for very little via Business Link and other business start-up organisations.

The “dragons” are being paid for the appearances so the money that they “invest” isn’t “hard earned cash” as such i.e. if they are paid £150k to spend a day or two filming the series and they “invest” £100k is some flimsy business proposal then they have only risked their time.

Does anyone know if any of the businesses “invested” in have actually moved forward?

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For those of you who are v.young or have managed to live a charmed life, know this: there aren't only people around who will sh!t on you. There are people around who rate themselves by the height from which they do it.

And saddest of all? The people who respect them for it....

Sledge I consider you one of the most insightful rational posters but not this time.

Lets assume the equivolent investment sum as a percentage of your resources is £2000. A stranger approaches you and says they want your hard earned £2000 in return for 15% of thier tiny company. What would you do? I think you would want a larger stake to make the risk whorthwhile and to give your time to a project.

Beleive me, if you ever get as rich as these guys you will behave the same. You will think 'do I give some muppet £75000, or do I spend on my own family or a new car or stick it in a bond'? For you to give the money to a risky business venture you will want more than a poxy 15%. Remember that some of the business's these guys invest in will fail. Its all about risk / reward.

Tell you waht, Ive got a few new business ideas, how about you spot me £5000 in return for a 15% stake?

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I really don't get the point of this TV show. The first series was quite pointless and boring and yet they somehow decided to produce another series. It is simply the same format every week with the panel of "investors" each trying to get as much "air time" as they can (these guys seriously like the sound of their own voices).

As a business show it is irrelevant. Business financing is simply not done this way in the real world. The idea that they need to “secure” all of the funding on the first meeting or walk away with nothing and/or do a deal there and then on the spot is laughable.

Most of the “entrepreneurs” seeking funding are desperate, deluded or both. A simple review of a business plan would stop almost all of them even presenting their proposals. Almost all of them are at the very very early stages of start-up and actually don’t need financing. They thing they need is people with the right skills and/or access to quality business advice which they could get for free or for very little via Business Link and other business start-up organisations.

The “dragons” are being paid for the appearances so the money that they “invest” isn’t “hard earned cash” as such i.e. if they are paid £150k to spend a day or two filming the series and they “invest” £100k is some flimsy business proposal then they have only risked their time.

Does anyone know if any of the businesses “invested” in have actually moved forward?

Remember the umbrella dispenser with advertising screen from the first show. He took the money in exchange for equity, had customers (the London Underground) etc. Has anyone actually seen one of these things in real life?

I've been to London a few times since then but there was no sign.

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Sledge I consider you one of the most insightful rational posters but not this time.

Lets assume the equivolent investment sum as a percentage of your resources is £2000. A stranger approaches you and says they want your hard earned £2000 in return for 15% of thier tiny company. What would you do? I think you would want a larger stake to make the risk whorthwhile and to give your time to a project.

Beleive me, if you ever get as rich as these guys you will behave the same. You will think 'do I give some muppet £75000, or do I spend on my own family or a new car or stick it in a bond'? For you to give the money to a risky business venture you will want more than a poxy 15%. Remember that some of the business's these guys invest in will fail. Its all about risk / reward.

Tell you waht, Ive got a few new business ideas, how about you spot me £5000 in return for a 15% stake?

You miss the point!

£75000 is probably a months 'pocket money' to them! What they are doing is implanting the suggestion that ANYONE investing in new business ventures should ask for a HUGE stake in the new business!

They know damn well a huge percentage will turn that sort of offer down. Its almost a sinical ploy to stop new ideas/inventions from ever getting off the ground!

PS How can you mix "buying a car" with "investing in a Bond" in the same sentance - confusingly opposite end of the spectrums mixed in there!

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I really don't get the point of this TV show.

It's simply a great reality TV show, if you like that kind of thing (and I love it!)

Remember the umbrella dispenser with advertising screen from the first show. He took the money in exchange for equity, had customers (the London Underground) etc. Has anyone actually seen one of these things in real life?

I was wondering about that too.

I use the tube every day and have yet to see an umbrella dispenser in any station.

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Sledge I consider you one of the most insightful rational posters but not this time.

Lets assume the equivolent investment sum as a percentage of your resources is £2000. A stranger approaches you and says they want your hard earned £2000 in return for 15% of thier tiny company. What would you do? I think you would want a larger stake to make the risk whorthwhile and to give your time to a project.

Beleive me, if you ever get as rich as these guys you will behave the same. You will think 'do I give some muppet £75000, or do I spend on my own family or a new car or stick it in a bond'? For you to give the money to a risky business venture you will want more than a poxy 15%. Remember that some of the business's these guys invest in will fail. Its all about risk / reward.

Tell you waht, Ive got a few new business ideas, how about you spot me £5000 in return for a 15% stake?

I wasn't objecting to then telling us about their achievements or driving a hard bargain. It was simply the way they crushed her. After all, they waited til her business was in administration before they stepped up to the plate, so they've already screwed her once. Why demean her so pointedly and publicly. It just struck me as distatsteful.

Dear dogb, you have performed the eqyuivalent of telling the wife she looks lovely without even looking at her! You're gonna have to buy me a seriously large ring to get back on the right side of me! (by the way, I agree entirely with your view on seed capital etc. Very, very risky. 80% of new businesses fail, so there's a risk adjustment before we even consider particular weaknesses.. Wonder why you quoted my reference to sharks in business. They exist. period).

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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