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The Eagle

Last Sunday For 2 Hours Renewables Provided 100% Of Italys Electricity Demand

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I came across the following article (in Italian) that states that last Sunday (June 16th) for 2 hours renewables provided 100% of Italy's electricity demand. It also mentions that in May renewables covered 50% of the demand on average and the previous record was Easter Monday 2012 when renewables covered 64% of the demand (in Sicily alone it was 94%).

Annual average is 30%.

I find these numbers remarkable, it looks like the fact that Italy abandoned nuclear power in the late 80s after a referendum where most voters voted against nuclear power (and a second referendum a few years ago where again voters said 'no' to nuclear power stations) is starting to pay off, Italy seems to be even further down the road to renewables than Germany!

One more fact they mention is that in 2012 thanks to 'peak shaving' photovoltaic electricity production reduced the total cost of electricity to consumers by 1.4 billion Euros (while in the UK TPTB claim they need to raise the cost to support renewables...).

Use Google Translate to read the article:

http://www.repubblica.it/ambiente/2013/06/20/news/due_ore_solo_rinnovabili-61510638/

Looks like the UK is very much falling behind, not just compared to Germany, but even compared to 'struggling' countries like Italy.

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And what are these renewables?

turbines that cost as much to maintain as the leccy they produce....non viable without subsidy...(overpriced rip off more likely as Government cash is involved)

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What was the amount of fuel burnt in standby/conventional power stations in this time?

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What a bl*ody gloomy lot you are.

IMO energy independence is going to be a big issue in the future and renewables will play a big role in helping countries with this, it's actually my main reason for wanting them as I'm not totally convinced about CO2 and global warming etc.

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Probably not.

Hydroelectric power has historically played a large role in Italian power generation and still provides close to 20% of its electricity. Also, solar power in Italy has expanded massively over the past few years. It's entirely possible that, for a couple of hours on a sunny Sunday afternoon in June, when demand is relatively low but solar output at a maximum, the combination of hydro and solar power could suffice.

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I came across the following article (in Italian) that states that last Sunday (June 16th) for 2 hours renewables provided 100% of Italy's electricity demand. It also mentions that in May renewables covered 50% of the demand on average and the previous record was Easter Monday 2012 when renewables covered 64% of the demand (in Sicily alone it was 94%).

Annual average is 30%.

I find these numbers remarkable, it looks like the fact that Italy abandoned nuclear power in the late 80s after a referendum where most voters voted against nuclear power (and a second referendum a few years ago where again voters said 'no' to nuclear power stations) is starting to pay off, Italy seems to be even further down the road to renewables than Germany!

One more fact they mention is that in 2012 thanks to 'peak shaving' photovoltaic electricity production reduced the total cost of electricity to consumers by 1.4 billion Euros (while in the UK TPTB claim they need to raise the cost to support renewables...).

Use Google Translate to read the article:

http://www.repubblica.it/ambiente/2013/06/20/news/due_ore_solo_rinnovabili-61510638/

Looks like the UK is very much falling behind, not just compared to Germany, but even compared to 'struggling' countries like Italy.

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Oh, I don't know. In terms of wind it seems like we are going for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

Building wind capacity at the rate of 2 nuclear power plants per year at the moment.

You can see here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Italy

That italy is not predicted to meet its 17% renewable energy target by 2020.

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Oh, I don't know. In terms of wind it seems like we are going for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

Building wind capacity at the rate of 2 nuclear power plants per year at the moment.

Someone on here mentioned the run of crap summers and the amount of windmills being installed.

Will it negate all the solar installs? :lol:

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Someone on here mentioned the run of crap summers and the amount of windmills being installed.

Will it negate all the solar installs? :lol:

Dunno. I would have thought that the average per year would be pretty invariant. Even if we do have a crap summer maybe it will only be a bit down. Fluffy should know.

The real issue with solar is this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SolarGIS-Solar-map-Europe-en.png

which of course explains why the italians are going for it.

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Dunno. I would have thought that the average per year would be pretty invariant. Even if we do have a crap summer maybe it will only be a bit down. Fluffy should know.

The real issue with solar is this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SolarGIS-Solar-map-Europe-en.png

which of course explains why the italians are going for it.

I guess they can pump water back up the mountains into the reservoirs in summer when sun is strong and water is lower.

Sunny and mountainous is a good renewables combination.

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Probably not.

Hydroelectric power has historically played a large role in Italian power generation and still provides close to 20% of its electricity. Also, solar power in Italy has expanded massively over the past few years. It's entirely possible that, for a couple of hours on a sunny Sunday afternoon in June, when demand is relatively low but solar output at a maximum, the combination of hydro and solar power could suffice.

Yep, a nice sunny country with lots of mountains, quite plausible that solar/hydro could account for a very high proportion of energy needs at certain times.

Note that wind barely registers in their output mix so no real lessons to be learnt for the UK.

Also: Hydroelectricity in Italy

Hydroelectricity played a major role in the development of energy sector in Italy, since until the 1950s almost all the electric energy produced in the country came from this source. In fact, almost all the current capacity was installed in the first half of the twentieth century.

...

Hydroelectricity was the first source widely used in Italy to produce electric energy, and remained the main source at least until 1960s. For example, of the total 15.5 GWh produced in 1938 hydro accounted for 14.6, or 94%. Hydroelectric energy played a main role in the Italian industrialization since late 19th century.[4] Hydroelectricity contributed for about 87.5% of the total energy produced from 1900 to 1960.[2]

Since 1960s the share of hydroelectricity decreased constantly due to the increase in energy needs and almost unchanged total capacity. By 1980, share of hydro was already below 25%. The majority of energy was at that time produced by fossil fuels. For comparison, energy consumed in Italy in 2010 was about 20 times that of 1938.[2]

Italian hydroelectric potential is estimated to be exploited at 90%. This explain the almost unchanged total capacity in last 50 years. All the favorable places have already been taken: this poses a limit on the construction of new plants of relevant capacity in terms of technical, economical and environmental problems

Edit: in fact solar barely registers in their output mix either, so what were really saying is that on a sunny sunday their electricity needs are met by their 60 year old hydroelectric plants. No doubt true but meaningless for the UK unless we discover a whole load of mountains that we'd previously missed.

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Can we even do renewables right in this country, I thought it just involved a politician handing out a blank cheque hoping for the best and spinning it nice every time.

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Yep, a nice sunny country with lots of mountains, quite plausible that solar/hydro could account for a very high proportion of energy needs at certain times.

Note that wind barely registers in their output mix so no real lessons to be learnt for the UK.

Also: Hydroelectricity in Italy

Hydroelectricity played a major role in the development of energy sector in Italy, since until the 1950s almost all the electric energy produced in the country came from this source. In fact, almost all the current capacity was installed in the first half of the twentieth century.

...

Hydroelectricity was the first source widely used in Italy to produce electric energy, and remained the main source at least until 1960s. For example, of the total 15.5 GWh produced in 1938 hydro accounted for 14.6, or 94%. Hydroelectric energy played a main role in the Italian industrialization since late 19th century.[4] Hydroelectricity contributed for about 87.5% of the total energy produced from 1900 to 1960.[2]

Since 1960s the share of hydroelectricity decreased constantly due to the increase in energy needs and almost unchanged total capacity. By 1980, share of hydro was already below 25%. The majority of energy was at that time produced by fossil fuels. For comparison, energy consumed in Italy in 2010 was about 20 times that of 1938.[2]

Italian hydroelectric potential is estimated to be exploited at 90%. This explain the almost unchanged total capacity in last 50 years. All the favorable places have already been taken: this poses a limit on the construction of new plants of relevant capacity in terms of technical, economical and environmental problems

Edit: in fact solar barely registers in their output mix either, so what were really saying is that on a sunny sunday their electricity needs are met by their 60 year old hydroelectric plants. No doubt true but meaningless for the UK unless we discover a whole load of mountains that we'd previously missed.

Not so. As of December 2012, Italy had an installed solar power capacity approaching 17 GW, up from about 1 GW in 2009! In comparison, hydroelectric capacity in Italy is about 12 GW (but is, of course, far more constant).

The speed at which they've rolled out solar generation is really quite astonishing.

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Not so. As of December 2012, Italy had an installed solar power capacity approaching 17 GW, up from about 1 GW in 2009! In comparison, hydroelectric capacity in Italy is about 12 GW (but is, of course, far more constant).

The speed at which they've rolled out solar generation is really quite astonishing.

Exactly, the wikipedia data linked to earlier in this thread is way out of date, it refers to 2009/2010, we are in 2013 and the article I summarised in the first post is from today (from a mainstream newspaper).

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Not so. As of December 2012, Italy had an installed solar power capacity approaching 17 GW, up from about 1 GW in 2009! In comparison, hydroelectric capacity in Italy is about 12 GW (but is, of course, far more constant).

The speed at which they've rolled out solar generation is really quite astonishing.

Fair enough.

Now all we need to do is find some mountains and make the sun shine.

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Fair enough.

Now all we need to do is find some mountains and make the sun shine.

No, all we need to do is get serious about taking advantage of what nature has given us, wind and tidal power!

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No, all we need to do is get serious about taking advantage of what nature has given us, wind and tidal power!

i.e the stuff Italy hasn't bothered with.

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i.e the stuff Italy hasn't bothered with.

Italy has some wind turbines, but the Mediterranean doesn't have tides so tidal power is out of the question.

But that's fine, every country should concentrate on those renewable energy sources that are most available.

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Probably not.

Hydroelectric power has historically played a large role in Italian power generation and still provides close to 20% of its electricity. Also, solar power in Italy has expanded massively over the past few years. It's entirely possible that, for a couple of hours on a sunny Sunday afternoon in June, when demand is relatively low but solar output at a maximum, the combination of hydro and solar power could suffice.

The newspaper said it was the combination of both sunny and windy. And ample reserves of water for the hydro (which is an excellent complement to intermittent sources like wind - as witness Scandinavia where hydro fills the gap when wind is too low).

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  • 241 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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