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Brazil Protests Spread In Sao Paulo, Brasilia And Rio

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22946736

As many as 200,000 people have marched through the streets of Brazil's biggest cities, as protests over rising public transport costs and the expense of staging the 2014 World Cup have spread.

The biggest demonstrations were in Rio de Janeiro, where 100,000 people joined a mainly peaceful march.

In the capital, Brasilia, people breached security at the National Congress building and scaled its roof.

The protests are the largest seen in Brazil for more than 20 years.

The trigger was a 2 June increase in the price of a single bus fare in Sao Paulo from 3 reals ($1.40, £0.90) to 3.20. Authorities said the rise was well below inflation, which since the last price increase in January 2011 has been 15.5%, according to official figures.

Could we see large demonstrations at a global sporting event? Or will the populace be bought off in the short term to avoid any political problems during the world cup?

Staging the World Cup and Olympics is an expensive project and when you don't have many public services people may question what the benefit is. As we all know historically the Olympics are an expensive white elephant which leaves a legacy of debt draining public resources for decades.

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If the article is true, that seems a real dumb thing to start a protest over. No wonder theyre third world.

There's a lot more to it than that. AlJazeera news channel had a good piece a few days ago, might be available online?

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If the article is true, that seems a real dumb thing to start a protest over. No wonder theyre third world.

They (Brazilians) are dumb, or at least a lot of them are.

However as many of the protesters are suggesting the money being spent on the WC and the Olympics should be going on education and health, they're clearly not all dumb.

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Protests are happening all round the world and every time the media comes up with a daft excuse. Turkey over redeveloping a park, Ireland over not putting a flag up, and the best one is anti capitalist protests when they are actually anti thieving ******* protests.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22964785

Brazil's government says it will deploy a national security force to five major cities after a wave of protests which has seen almost a quarter of a million people demand better public services.

The national force will be sent to Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, Salvador, Fortaleza and the capital, Brasilia.

All of the cities are hosting games in Fifa's Confederations Cup.

The announcement comes after riot police and protesters clashed in fresh protests on Tuesday in Sao Paulo.

Brazil's ministry of justice said that Recife was the only Confederations Cup host city not to request the support of the National Public Security Force (FNSP).

A source in the ministry said it would be up to local governments to decide how long the FNSP would stay.

Troops sent in now to quell protests.

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Anyway, 200,000 in a country of what, 180million is nothing. Didnt we get 2 or 3 million out for the anti iraq war and countryside alliance/fox hunting protests? (in a country with 1/3rd of the population)

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Protests are happening all round the world and every time the media comes up with a daft excuse. Turkey over redeveloping a park, Ireland over not putting a flag up, and the best one is anti capitalist protests when they are actually anti thieving ******* protests.

They're protesting the same thing: galloping inflation in the cost of living caused by QE.

Brazil CPI:

Brazil-Inflation-March2013.gif

Global+Food+Price+Index+via+DoubleLine+World+Bank.png

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They're protesting the same thing: galloping inflation in the cost of living caused by QE.

People are definitely starting to feel the pinch, I think.

The thing about running a 'smoke and mirrors' financial system where the banks live off the fat of the land is that you can sell it to the serfs when times are good and everyone feels that their standard of living is rising. It's a lot tougher to keep them happy when the whole thing derails and the sheep go unfed.

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People are definitely starting to feel the pinch, I think.

The thing about running a 'smoke and mirrors' financial system where the banks live off the fat of the land is that you can sell it to the serfs when times are good and everyone feels that their standard of living is rising. It's a lot tougher to keep them happy when the whole thing derails and the sheep go unfed.

Not sure about that. In an Iceland in Wester Hailes Edinburgh the other day ALL the Quorn products were £2 each, and you could get two big chunks of McVities Jamaica Ginger cake for £1. You could probably live for three days on one of the Ginger cakes if you had to. In the past both "Quorn" and "McVities" were brands that were presented and priced as high quality/special/better than discount brands? Now, if it costs too much it sits on the shelf. Go to a posher part of Edinburgh and they would have the basic Quorn burgers on at £2, but the more exotic stuff like Hot Dogs, Chicken style pies etc would be anything up to £3.50, but if you shop around a bit the cheap deals are there, and that is even before doing the porridge and one good meal a day diet. IMO deflation is is in the chicken coop, and the farmers are desperately trying to chase it out, but not succeeding.

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There's been one confirmed death. :o

Brazil has been doing comparatively well economically and lifting some of its poor up from poverty less ham-fistedly than Hugo Chavez, but it sounds like things are not improving quick enough for a lot people and Brazil's increasing wealth is not being spent well. It a initially relatively stable and economically growing country like Brazil can suddenly flip like this, Russia and China seem more vulnerable now.

This is what the 21st century crisis is going to be. Nation states dealing with lots of internal unrest.

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:rolleyes:

How does printing US Dollars devalue the Brazilian Real?

Are you saying he isn't driving up inflation in Brazil as commodity prices have increased?

One of the reasons they are protesting is increased cost of fares.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/us-accused-of-worsening-price-rises

Nov 2010

Critics said the $600bn (£370bn) of QE announced by the Federal Reserve would hurt consumers by pushing up prices of soy, wheat and other staple foods, along with oil, copper and zinc.

The jump in commodity prices raised the prospect of an inflationary bubble reminiscent of 2008, when oil and other industrial raw materials struck all-time highs just before the crash.

While commodity traders said a decline in the dollar's value was expected following the QE decision, the Reuters/Jefferies CRB index, a global commodities benchmark, has since hit a two-year high. It has gained 18% since the start of September.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/9561143/World-on-track-for-record-food-prices-within-a-year-due-to-US-drought.html

For policy-makers, the pick up in food inflation signals problems, as high food prices tend to magnify social unrest.

"Politics and economics are inextricably linked as exemplified by the Arab Spring, which was preceded by a rise in food prices," note Hermes fund managers in a recent report.

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When transport costs go up in other countries they riot.

When they rise in the UK we vote for Gidiot.

Go figure..............

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You mean the galloping inflation caused by this man:

220px-Ben_Bernanke_official_portrait.jpg

Inflation in the US is c. 1.0%

But don't let that stop you making up nonsense.

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:rolleyes:

How does printing US Dollars devalue the Brazilian Real?

With its status as global reserve/commodity currency, the US effectively exports inflation to the rest of the World.

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If the article is true, that seems a real dumb thing to start a protest over. No wonder theyre third world.

I don't think it's a rational thing. It's more like there's something in the air. And it's a worldwide phenomena. The question for me is how this will manifest itself in the UK and Europe, if it does manifest itself. I think the UK is now highly fractured politically.

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Inflation in the US is c. 1.0%

But don't let that stop you making up nonsense.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/18/obamacare-projected-premium-increases-by-state/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell&utm_content

Obamacare_premiums.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8492078/How-the-Fed-triggered-the-Arab-Spring-uprisings-in-two-easy-graphs.html

Lilico-graph-1_1886853b.jpg

lilico-graph-2_1886857a.jpg

When food prices rises faster, revolutions become more likely. And in a number of Arab states, food prices are already higher (and more exposed to international commodity price rises) than other states, as Mason explores.

The case is clear and simple, but nonetheless powerful for that. QE2 drove up food prices, as we ought to have expected. Rapid food prices rises led to revolutions, as we ought to have expected. Cut away the other factors and complexities that are always there in revolutions, and the implication is clear.

But still it's not the Fed helping to fan the flames on global inflation.

http://www.arabianmoney.net/gold-silver/2012/09/14/marc-faber-says-ben-bernankes-qe3-will-destroy-the-world/

On whether he would buy property in the United States:

‘Yes. Property prices in the south of the US are very inexpensive compared to property prices around the world. The tragedy is that the people that were evicted from these homes have no access to credit. They have no money. They can’t buy them. So, with easy money by the Fed well-to-do people can buy these properties and then rent them out to the people that were kicked out of these homes. What a great achievement of the Fed.

‘First they create the property bubble and destroy the wealth of poor people, then the poor people have to rent and the rents have been up over the last 12 months. What a great achievement. Thank you, Mr. Bernanke.’

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/46252167

“We do not want higher inflation and we’re not tolerating higher inflation,” Fed chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress yesterday.

In a way, that’s true. Washington is exporting higher inflation, which it does not want, to the emerging world, which must tolerate it.

..

“This policy runs the great risk of fueling asset bubbles, destabilizing prices and eventually eroding the value of the dollar,” said Representative Paul Ryan, the Wisconsin Republican who is chairman of the House Budget Committee.

..

What was conveniently ignored is the fact that the prospect of asset bubbles, destabilizing prices and the eroding value of the dollar has swept over the emerging world since fall 2010.

As Brussels is now joining in, the potential for a financial tsunami is increasing.

QE in the West, QT in the East

Yesterday, the Fed chair Bernanke defended the central bank’s newly established price goal and rejected suggestions he was prepared to allow higher inflation to create jobs.

In reality, the liquidity trap was set by the exhaustion of traditional instruments of monetary policy, which prompted the Fed to initiate quantitative easing (QE) in fall 2010.

With investors seeking higher returns, more QE has driven “hot money” (short-term portfolio flows) into high-yield emerging-market economies, inflating potentially dangerous asset bubbles in Asia, Latin America and elsewhere.

..

Domestic decisions, global consequences

Hoping to avoid Japan’s two lost decades, the Fed and the ECB seek to realize significant real exchange rate depreciation by printing money. It can be seen as the advanced world’s effort to force the emerging world to accommodate drastic inflation and thus nominal rate appreciation.

With the Fed’s QE1 in fall 2010, China’s minister of commerce Chen Deming lamented that the U.S. issuance of dollars was “out of control” and China was attacked by “imported inflation.”

Then, the critical chorus extended from the BRICs to Germany. Tomorrow, it will be more extensive because any slowdown in the BRICs is bound to have an adverse impact on smaller emerging and developing economies whose growth depends on these giants.

In emerging Asia and Latin America, this debt monetization is comparable to successive waves of QE, which amount to debasing the value of the dollar and the euro alike.

The advanced economies seek to inflate away their massive debt by exporting inflation to the emerging world. The net effect is a massive financial tsunami that has potential to sweep over the emerging economies – and, ultimately, the developed economies as well.

Still it's not Bernanke to blame that apparently is silly talk...

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Inflation in the US is c. 1.0%

But don't let that stop you making up nonsense.

Yes, but while US consumers eat IPad, Brazilian mass don't.

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I don't think it's a rational thing. It's more like there's something in the air. And it's a worldwide phenomena. The question for me is how this will manifest itself in the UK and Europe, if it does manifest itself. I think the UK is now highly fractured politically.

People will become more sullen, angry, drone like and on edge, they will never meet strangers and organise mass protest, they will beat their wives more and kill more strangers outside pubs etc Walking through Edinburgh yesterday I had a Blade runner moment, looking at masses of faces stuffed onto buses and clamped into their cars, white knuckled grip on the steering wheel, ready to hit the horn and start shouting abuse at the slightest mistake from another driver, I realised how suppressed we have all become, seeing others as the enemy rather than the state and corporations. A good Brazilian riot would be a great outlet, but will never happen in the UK over infrastructure spending, if it did most of the people in Edinburgh local government would be hanging off lamp posts by now.

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It's interesting that this has kicked off in Brazil, in the respect that the country has a lot going for it in terms of energy independence etc.

It seems like events are conspiring to produce problems. Firstly there is the US printing money and pushing up food prices. Then you have the poor crop yields from last year which further conspire to push up prices. At the same time lack of western demand for BRIC products (consumer electronics) is making earning a crust harder for BRIC workers.

People generally riot when they can't afford basic supplies such as food, so any country that has a large amount of people close to subsistence level is going to be more affected by the rising food prices. So the west (US, europe) is going to be less affected than the BRICs.

In the BRICs you can already see the banking systems are starting to come under some strain, and in many respects the central governments have no choice but to implement policy that will lead to pain. Pain in the BRICs=not being able to feed yourself, as opposed to the west where it might mean not being able to go on holiday or afford a new flat screen telly.

Social unrest in the BRICs will probably have a highly negative outcome for a lot of the higher technology BRIC production. Stuff like consumer electronics plants and chip fabrication plants don't stand up well to internal strife. My guess is that if any rebalancing takes place then it will lead to benefits for the west in the long term.

The big question to me seems to be though whether the BRICs will try to divert social unrest into nationalistic policies, leading to war, as has often happened before. I think these days war is very much more a MAD scenario where no-one wins, but I guess the possibility exists that if backs are put up against the wall this sort of stuff might be entered into.

Interesting times.

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Are you saying he isn't driving up inflation in Brazil as commodity prices have increased?

One of the reasons they are protesting is increased cost of fares.

...

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Printing USD weakens the USD and affects holders of USD. It doesn't affect the cost, in other units, of goods and services.

Left to its own devices, all else equal, the real would just increase against the dollar and costs would stay the same. Give or take.

Of course costs are rising, as they are in many places.

Brazil is suffering from a debt and a massive property bubble, just like ours, and that's the most likely reason that prices are really rising, for them.

Also, I believe that, last year, brazil was selling its own currency, under the mistaken belief that this would somehow, magically, help exports. All it does it make real holders poorer and real debtors richer.

The idea that ******ing about with the nominal price of things changes the actual price of things is from the same school of economics that brought you the 'wealth effect' of HPI and the 'debt doesn't matter' doctrine.

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/100433591

Expectations of an end to ultra-easy U.S. monetary policy are likely to set in during the second-half of 2013, triggering a bull run in the dollar that could last for five years, says independent economist Andy Xie. And this, he argues, could lead to a "crisis" in emerging markets as hot money inflows unwind.

The U.S. economy has begun to show signs of life again - with factory activity touching a nine-month high in January - prompting talks about an end to the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing program.

A property bubble helped by an inflow of cheap dollars seeking a better return in an emerging market perhaps laying the foundation for a future crisis?

Didn't the Asian economies also have a boom in property etc... just before the Asian crisis fuelled by an inflow of cheap dollars seeking a higher return?

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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