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Schools Fail To Challenge The Brightest, Warns Ofsted

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257

Thousands of bright children are being let down by England's non-selective secondary schools, inspectors warn.

A culture of low expectations meant able pupils were failing to achieve top GCSE grades, Ofsted said in a report.

In 2012, 65% of pupils - 65,000 children - who had achieved Level 5 in maths and English tests at the end of primary school failed to attain A* or A grades in both these subjects at GCSE.

Head teachers said school league tables pushed schools into the middle ground.

The report - The Most Able Students: Are they doing as well as they should in our non-selective secondary schools? - found more than a quarter (27%) of previously high-attaining pupils had failed to achieve at least a B grade in both English and maths.

People are robots they don't change and develop...

Another pointless report which of course misses the obvious that it might be the education system itself failing kids by teaching everyone the same rather than schools failing. But why blame the system when you can finger point at schools.

As someone who academically is all over the place my failure at school wasn't down to the teaching it was the system it's quite amusing thinking now I wouldn't be allowed to do A-levels and yet I've got A-levels as under the current system I wouldn't be seen as academically capable enough. It wasn't until I got out of the confines of the school system I did better. Nothing to do with the teachers it was the 5h1t system.

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Femi-nazi politically ovecorrect scumbags have usurped the school system, making for an unwelcoming environment where kids must comply and are discouraged from thinking outside the box.

Huh? Rote-learning is what one normally associates with traditional methods of schooling. It certainly seems to me that kids today have more freedom of choice and expression than when I was a lad, when you basically learned what you were told to learn.

Edit: I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, merely that it seems to be so.

Edited by snowflux

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Huh? Rote-learning is what one normally associates with traditional methods of schooling. It certainly seems to me that kids today have more freedom of choice and expression than when I was a lad, when you basically learned what you were told to learn.

Edit: I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, merely that it seems to be so.

I have family that have quit teaching due to the hostile environment in the staff rooms, perpetrated by bullying head teachers and ridiculous political correctness gone haywire.

It follows that this behaviour is then transmitted to the kids, plus, a very much dumbed down syllabus. Recipe for failure. Coached kids pushed into university educations that matter nowt. Shameful.

If you can afford it, get your kid privately educated and as far away from state schools as possible...unless of course you live in a very posh neighbourhood.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257

People are robots they don't change and develop...

Another pointless report which of course misses the obvious that it might be the education system itself failing kids by teaching everyone the same rather than schools failing. But why blame the system when you can finger point at schools.

As someone who academically is all over the place my failure at school wasn't down to the teaching it was the system it's quite amusing thinking now I wouldn't be allowed to do A-levels and yet I've got A-levels as under the current system I wouldn't be seen as academically capable enough. It wasn't until I got out of the confines of the school system I did better. Nothing to do with the teachers it was the 5h1t system.

Part of the problem is probably the continued existence of grammar schools in many parts of the country. If you don't get into grammar school at age 11, you may be effectively written off academically just because you mentally matured at a later stage. The systems that seem to get the best results are those like the Finnish system, which is basically strongly-streamed comprehensive education. This ensures that children are taught to the best of their abilities while still allowing for early and late developers.

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I have family that have quit teaching due to the hostile environment in the staff rooms, perpetrated by bullying head teachers and ridiculous political correctness gone haywire.

It follows that this behaviour is then transmitted to the kids, plus, a very much dumbed down syllabus. Recipe for failure. Coached kids pushed into university educations that matter nowt. Shameful.

If you can afford it, get your kid privately educated and as far away from state schools as possible...unless of course you live in a very posh neighbourhood.

What do you mean by "ridiculous political correctness gone haywire"? Care to give an example or two?

Edit: As a father of a child nearing the end of primary school, this interests me.

Edited by snowflux

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What do you mean by "ridiculous political correctness gone haywire"? Care to give an example or two?

Say for example... hugging upset kids? Actually grading kids by their true ability? Coaching kids through exams? Prohibition of classical literature. Lack of punishment facility. What else do you want?

You simply can be the most awkward of folk on here when you want to be.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...cation-22873257

People are robots they don't change and develop...

Another pointless report which of course misses the obvious that it might be the education system itself failing kids by teaching everyone the same rather than schools failing. But why blame the system when you can finger point at schools.

As someone who academically is all over the place my failure at school wasn't down to the teaching it was the system it's quite amusing thinking now I wouldn't be allowed to do A-levels and yet I've got A-levels as under the current system I wouldn't be seen as academically capable enough. It wasn't until I got out of the confines of the school system I did better. Nothing to do with the teachers it was the 5h1t system.

Seems to me like English socialists in action - trying to make us all equal ...

How it has been working in the Central Europe (German, Austria, Czech, ...):

- public grammar schools in every district - at least one

- private schools get the same government subsidy as the public schools - so even middle class can afford them as they just pay on the top of the government subsidy

Simples, problem solved ...

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Thousands of bright children are being let down by England's non-selective secondary schools, inspectors warn.

Have they only just noticed?

Can't've been bright enough to be affected when they were themselves at school. I expect Shaw's observation extends to school inspectors, though of course nothing like ofsted existed in his day.

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Say for example... hugging upset kids? Actually grading kids by their true ability? Coaching kids through exams? Prohibition of classical literature. Lack of punishment facility. What else do you want?

You simply can be the most awkward of folk on here when you want to be.

Do you have first-hand experience of this? I find it hard to believe that, for example, classical literature is prohibited in schools.

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Say for example... hugging upset kids? Actually grading kids by their true ability? Coaching kids through exams? Prohibition of classical literature. Lack of punishment facility. What else do you want?

You simply can be the most awkward of folk on here when you want to be.

The hugging thing goes on. The Head at my children's Primary school tells the teachers that if the teachers want to hug, touch (appropriately of course) a pupil then that's their lookout, he cannot protect them if an allegation is made.

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Part of the problem is probably the continued existence of grammar schools in many parts of the country. If you don't get into grammar school at age 11, you may be effectively written off academically just because you mentally matured at a later stage.

A typical lefty, narrow minded view.

Screw the thousands of kids that would really benefit from a grammar education just because a few kids 'might' mature academically later in life.

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Another pointless report which of course misses the obvious that it might be the education system itself failing kids by teaching everyone the same rather than schools failing. But why blame the system when you can finger point at schools.

This is a well known problem amongst anyone who's had any contact with the system.

Schools are judged on the proportion of pupils that achieve passes at grade A-C, there is no distinction between A-C nor in what subject the passes are in. This has 2 effects:

  1. Teachers concentrate their efforts on the C/D grade students and ignore the rest. The A/B graders will pass anyway and the E/F graders will fail no matter what; if you can make sure that the C/D graders all get a C then you look like a brilliant teacher even if your A+ graders are walking out with Cs as well.

  2. Students get railroaded into soft subjects at the expense of academic ones; forget history/sciences/languages, get them all doing BTECs in health and beauty. It'll be no f***ing use to them in later life but from the school's point of view it pretty much guarantees excellent exam results.

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Do you have first-hand experience of this? I find it hard to believe that, for example, classical literature is prohibited in schools.

Tom Sawyer [EDITED] comes to mind. Stop being so lazy and google things for yourself, unless you are getting some kinky hook out of being an overly pedantic, obstinate, know-it-all.

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Tom Sawyer [EDITED] comes to mind. Stop being so lazy and google things for yourself, unless you are getting some kinky hook out of being an overly pedantic, obstinate, know-it-all.

You're referring to the publishing of a US edition of a US book for use in US schools. Hardly evidence of the prohibition of classical literature in UK schools! I take it that was the best you could find. And yes, I did Google, and I couldn't find any evidence to support your assertion either, though that is, of course, your job.

I have to admit to a certain pleasure in catching out bullshitters with their ********. It is funny to see ideologues (right wing, left wing and plain nuts) getting ruffled when probed on their unsubstantiated assertions. :)

Edited by snowflux

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A typical lefty, narrow minded view.

Screw the thousands of kids that would really benefit from a grammar education just because a few kids 'might' mature academically later in life.

No, you have the narrow-minded view. Evidence from international comparisons, in particular, the PISA studies, indicates that the best outcomes tend to be associated with systems that:

(1) Split children into groups by ability, so they can be taught according to that ability.

(2) Allow for easy movement of children between groups, thus providing flexibility and incentive.

For some reason, eduction in the UK has become an idealogical battlefield between the left, who have difficulty with (1) and the right, who have difficulty with (2). Why can't we just put ideology aside for a bit and look at what works best in other countries?

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OFSTED are saying that too many pupils with good SATs results (level 5) at the age of 11 don't get grades A or A* for English and Maths at GCSE.

That is like saying that too many horses who are first over the first couple of fences at Aintree are not in the top three by the end.

- Children develop at differerent rates at different ages. It is absolutely normal for some to progress faster, later, and some to progress more slowly after an initial fast progress. There are lots of reasons for that; including:

- SATs at age 11 measure a different set of skills and knowledge to GCSE - so there might be a correlation, but not a 100% predictability.

- Puberty

- English and Maths GCSEs represent two subjects out of, possibly, ten being entered. SATs tend to be the sole focus for much of year 6 in primary schools.

- As previous posters have mentioned - state schools get judged on A* - C. So of course they focus on what they are judged on.

Also, SATs are a level of absolute attainment - GCSEs are relative. We were told on Monday that GCSEs should change because too many pupils get top grades. Today we are told that not enough bright kids get high grades. Is OFSTED therefore saying that the wrong kids are getting high grades - the not so bright ones rather than the really bright ones and they really had no right to overtake the kids who did better when they were 11?

And finally, the reason OFSTED say that this is a problem in state schools is that over 80% of private schools don't do SATs at aged 11 - saying it damages education. This is being spun as a criticism of state secondaries when no comparison is actually possible.

OFSTED really ought to be more rigorous in its use of statistics.

Y

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Curiously, on this one, while I've strong views - they don't seem to coincide with those of any common stereotype.

I think the (long term) trend to a broad, but shallower, subject coverage - regular/continuous testing - with examinations that can be easily passed... even with high grades... is flawed. I feel this is a form of training, as opposed to education, and it is to the extraordinary detriment of the students.

I think Schools are about a whole lot more than academic opportunity, however. I think the main benefits are from interactions with a wide range of 'peers' - and opportunities to confront a system - gaining practise for real life.

I'd like to see far broader (and more ambitious) study opportunities... I'd like a system where it is blindingly impossible for any candidate to achieve 'everything' -- where, rather than having a dozen A* students, you've a dozen (or more) spectacularly impressive, if incomparable, students - each of whom is enthusiastic and actively mentored. Perhaps examinations are still necessary - but, if they are, they should not be predictable... I see no purpose in exams where the most effective approach is to memorize, in detail, the material required by papers from previous years. I can't imagine a bigger waste of opportunity and talent... where the only benefit is to allow elder generations, incapable of making an intellectual judgement on their own, to blindly rely upon how these inappropriate scores rank school leavers.

Edited by A.steve

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Say for example... hugging upset kids? Actually grading kids by their true ability? Coaching kids through exams? Prohibition of classical literature. Lack of punishment facility. What else do you want?

You simply can be the most awkward of folk on here when you want to be.

My kids board. Once one of 'em mucked around and had to spend the night in solitary; a remote bare attic room with a single threadbare blanket. She was not at all impressed and rather cold as it had even less heating than the dorm. Weirdly, they seem to enjoy it.

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Schools are doing a great job in keeping pick pockets and youth crime off the streets largely, and preparing them for a rent-seeking world. Work, pay your rent, and taxes. Produce the next generation of workers for our masters.

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No, you have the narrow-minded view. Evidence from international comparisons, in particular, the PISA studies, indicates that the best outcomes tend to be associated with systems that:

(1) Split children into groups by ability, so they can be taught according to that ability.

(2) Allow for easy movement of children between groups, thus providing flexibility and incentive.

For some reason, eduction in the UK has become an idealogical battlefield between the left, who have difficulty with (1) and the right, who have difficulty with (2). Why can't we just put ideology aside for a bit and look at what works best in other countries?

You have the gall to call me narrow minded then point to research that advocates the splitting up of pupils according to ability, so do you just have a problem with the splitting up taking place on different sites or is it the phrase grammar school (and implied elitism) that infuriates you so?

I went to a bog standard comprehensive school where the sciences and mathematics were all taught in banded classes, unfortunately having the 'stigma' of being top set, as it was called, was food and drink to the less academically inclined bullies and many children suffered for it (some even fluffed tests so they would drop down a level or two).

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Tom Sawyer [EDITED] comes to mind. Stop being so lazy and google things for yourself, unless you are getting some kinky hook out of being an overly pedantic, obstinate, know-it-all.

You've made some bold assertions. If you can't back them up its not anybody else's fault. Don't project your embarrassment as anger on others when you get called out.

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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