ChumpusRex Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Interesting, I was after a used IS220 in autumn 2009, but they were offered at extremely stiff prices by comparison to the 328 I bought in the end. Twice the price, although it was bottom-feeding motoring on my part and the ones I was looking at were all pre-CO2 emissions tax system, I guess the IS250 has an added disincentive there, especially the post April?'06 examples, which inevitably hits used prices. That said, it's amazing how much people with spend on a car to avoid a couple of hundred quid/annum on road tax. A big, relatively unstressed six has to be amongst the most reliable and enjoyable motors you can buy. Especially one made by Toyota. There's very little reason to consider the IS220. The performance of the engine isn't anything special, and it has had a lot of reliability problems. The fuel consumption isn't good either, with the IS250 equalling or even doing better in many scenarios. The auto box on the IS250 is pretty sweet too. There must be some serious trickery in there, because it gets similar performance and better mpg than does the manual option! I was initially thinking about the IS220, but when I actually sat down and worked out the mileage I'd be doing, maintenance costs, etc. there just wasn't any benefit for paying the higher price that a used IS220 would require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 There's very little reason to consider the IS220. The performance of the engine isn't anything special, and it has had a lot of reliability problems. The fuel consumption isn't good either, with the IS250 equalling or even doing better in many scenarios. The auto box on the IS250 is pretty sweet too. There must be some serious trickery in there, because it gets similar performance and better mpg than does the manual option! I was initially thinking about the IS220, but when I actually sat down and worked out the mileage I'd be doing, maintenance costs, etc. there just wasn't any benefit for paying the higher price that a used IS220 would require. Seems we arrived at a similar conclusion. IIRC it was a prospective £1,500 for an exhaust system which made me run a mile in the end. Not that cars need then often these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Lexus IS250 SE-L auto. Smashing used buy! I had a LS400 at one time! It was cheap, and it didn't rust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 Smashing used buy! I had a LS400 at one time! It was cheap, and it didn't rust! sooner or later someone is going to learn to build a car as reliable as the japanese, as good looking and feeling as the Germans, as fast as the Italians and as cheap as the Koreans. Then they're going to take over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 sooner or later someone is going to learn to build a car as reliable as the japanese, as good looking and feeling as the Germans, as fast as the Italians and as cheap as the Koreans. Then they're going to take over the world. Could be China then? The Lexus was the one and only Japanese car I ever bought, although I have had a few Japanese motorcycles! I've never bought a German or Italian car (Excluding my German made Granada), but I have rented them. Korean cars are better than some people reckon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 I managed to get 30 miles more (430) than usual to a tank last weekend - while towing 350kg of motorbike and trailer, and associated tools/gear/etc! I put it down to doing between 55 - 70mph depending on mood, and slipstreaming. The same driving this week got me to 444 and the light hadn't even come on. I've got better things to spend money on than diesel for my work van, so this will now be standard operating procedure . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I managed to get 30 miles more (430) than usual to a tank last weekend - while towing 350kg of motorbike and trailer, and associated tools/gear/etc! I put it down to doing between 55 - 70mph depending on mood, and slipstreaming. The same driving this week got me to 444 and the light hadn't even come on. I've got better things to spend money on than diesel for my work van, so this will now be standard operating procedure . yep, people dont seem to realise that braking is what consumes fuel...pointless braking that is. for example, the apollo space craft got to the moon and back with very little fuel used...once the energy is used to get up to speed, it is all wasted again by braking...with actual braking, air resistance and friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Has anyone heard of, or tried a "Bluefin" rechip, the one for my b8 Audi a4 143 claims to increase bhp by 30 and improve fuel economy. You can apparently 'unchip' it any time you want. There has to be a catch, surely!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Has anyone heard of, or tried a "Bluefin" rechip, the one for my b8 Audi a4 143 claims to increase bhp by 30 and improve fuel economy. You can apparently 'unchip' it any time you want. There has to be a catch, surely!? Manufacturers warranty would be invalid and insurance premium would probably increase. Revo are one of the best remap companies for VAG engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Manufacturers warranty would be invalid and insurance premium would probably increase. Revo are one of the best remap companies for VAG engines. Guy at work had a focus st and went for a remap. They gave him this dongle that attaches to the diagnostic port. When you take the car back to the garage, alledgedly you remove the dongle and no-one can tell the difference. He said it made a massive difference to the performance. I suppose in an accident removing the thing might not be that easy an option ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 If any chipping/tuning company can squeeze more out of a 1.9D normally aspirated diesel Berlingo I'd be more impressed than any gains they achieve on modern turbo diesels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Guy at work had a focus st and went for a remap. They gave him this dongle that attaches to the diagnostic port. When you take the car back to the garage, alledgedly you remove the dongle and no-one can tell the difference. He said it made a massive difference to the performance. I suppose in an accident removing the thing might not be that easy an option ! Allegedly is the operative word. As far as I know all remaps leave traces. A digital tuning box is an alternative and that doesn't leave a direct trace in your ECU because it plugs in between the ECU and the engine, but even that can be detected if higher power outputs are logged by your ECU, difficult to prove though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 How many litres of fuel do you think George is missing the tax on as a result of your move to the Focus btw? Petrol and Diesel carry VAT. Plus Fuel Duty. Plus VAT on the Fuel Duty The parasites don't miss a trick, do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Petrol and Diesel carry VAT. Plus Fuel Duty. Plus VAT on the Fuel Duty The parasites don't miss a trick, do they? Yeah, but people respond in kind. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/apr/05/uk-fuel-sales-plummet-motorists-embrace-efficiency My guess is this country could currently get by on 50% of the fuel it uses without too many issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 If any chipping/tuning company can squeeze more out of a 1.9D normally aspirated diesel Berlingo I'd be more impressed than any gains they achieve on modern turbo diesels The turbo XUDs were famously tuneable simply by turning up the fueling on the diesel pump. With a turbodiesel I guess it's a virtuous circle however- more fuel initially = more boost, more boost + more fuel = more power. It was not uncommon to be able to get a Pug 306 DTurbo up from 90bhp to 130bhp, with ~200lb/ft torque- which made them pretty nippy! I daresay you would be able to eke a few more horses out of the naturally aspirated engine by turning up the fuelling if it's currently running lean, but no more than 5-10 brake I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The turbo XUDs were famously tuneable simply by turning up the fueling on the diesel pump. With a turbodiesel I guess it's a virtuous circle however- more fuel initially = more boost, more boost + more fuel = more power. It was not uncommon to be able to get a Pug 306 DTurbo up from 90bhp to 130bhp, with ~200lb/ft torque- which made them pretty nippy! I daresay you would be able to eke a few more horses out of the naturally aspirated engine by turning up the fuelling if it's currently running lean, but no more than 5-10 brake I expect. You're right of course, I have heard of 'tweaking the pump' - but that's definitely not a plug and play procedure! Tempting, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Petrol and Diesel carry VAT. Plus Fuel Duty. Plus VAT on the Fuel Duty The parasites don't miss a trick, do they? Bugger! That's why Cadillacs are so cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 This was quite interesting on the remap front. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/tuning-faq.asp I'm not endorsing this site, but it seemed quite a comprehensive explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 This was quite interesting on the remap front. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/tuning-faq.asp I'm not endorsing this site, but it seemed quite a comprehensive explanation. An alternative philosophy is the tuning box. http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/faqs.php No endorsement from me on this either, but lots of people swear by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChumpusRex Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 An alternative philosophy is the tuning box. http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/faqs.php No endorsement from me on this either, but lots of people swear by them. Potentially the only option for some makes. A lot of the modern ECUs are "uncrackable", or at least, have not been "cracked" yet in order to accept a modified firmware. This is the case with Toyota; most Toyota cars made in the last 5 years cannot be remapped without either a "piggy back" tuning box or an aftermarket ECU (which have their own problems, as they may not integrate properly into the rest of the car's electronics, especially security devices). Some ECUs, while not uncrackable, are difficult: the latest generation of BMW ECUs are remappable only by opening the module and soldering the remapping tool to the ECU's microprocessor. The tuning boxes work, but they are very complex and make the already complex wiring of a vehicle even more complex - doubling the amount of wiring in the engine management system and tripling the number of connections between wires. They're "easily" removable, at least, if you call unplugging and refitting about 50 connectors and removing about 50 yards of extra cabling easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Potentially the only option for some makes. A lot of the modern ECUs are "uncrackable", or at least, have not been "cracked" yet in order to accept a modified firmware. This is the case with Toyota; most Toyota cars made in the last 5 years cannot be remapped without either a "piggy back" tuning box or an aftermarket ECU (which have their own problems, as they may not integrate properly into the rest of the car's electronics, especially security devices). Some ECUs, while not uncrackable, are difficult: the latest generation of BMW ECUs are remappable only by opening the module and soldering the remapping tool to the ECU's microprocessor. The tuning boxes work, but they are very complex and make the already complex wiring of a vehicle even more complex - doubling the amount of wiring in the engine management system and tripling the number of connections between wires. They're "easily" removable, at least, if you call unplugging and refitting about 50 connectors and removing about 50 yards of extra cabling easy. 50 connectors and 50 yards of cable? . http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/pdfs/vag_2.0_tdi_cr_ldk_quer_e.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChumpusRex Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 50 connectors and 50 yards of cable? . http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/pdfs/vag_2.0_tdi_cr_ldk_quer_e.pdf I think they've got a bit more refined since I saw one; boy, that thing was a mess. Wires everywhere. It was a petrol one though, I'm guessing the sensors and stuff are bit simpler with diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I think they've got a bit more refined since I saw one; boy, that thing was a mess. Wires everywhere. It was a petrol one though, I'm guessing the sensors and stuff are bit simpler with diesel. I thought modern diesels were even more complex. Massive fuel pressures with two or more pumps and sensors for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChumpusRex Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I thought modern diesels were even more complex. Massive fuel pressures with two or more pumps and sensors for everything. Never worked on a modern diesel, so don't really know. Modern petrol are mental though, basically using the same fuel system as a modern common rail diesel (multiple pumps, insane pressures, and injectors going directly into the cylinder), with the added complexity of spark ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 This was quite interesting on the remap front. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/tuning-faq.asp I'm not endorsing this site, but it seemed quite a comprehensive explanation. Shark is reasonably well regarded, certainly on the skoda forums at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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