25% Single Persons Council Tax Discount?

[pjw]

I was alarmed to read this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/council-spending/10045121/Town-halls-seek-to-levy-widows-tax.html

The Local Government Association (LGA), which represents more than 370 local authorities in England and Wales, has said that councils should be given the “full and unconstrained ability” to vary council tax discounts.

In its submission to Government for the 2015/16 spending round, the LGA also calls for all “restrictions on council tax” to be removed.

Ministers have warned that this would mean local authorities pushing up taxes for families and removing the single person discount, which allows those living alone to receive a 25 per cent reduction in their council tax.

It could mean single pensioners paying hundreds of pounds extra every year in taxes.

Any resident who lost their discount would see a more than 30 per cent hike in their council tax bill.

[Ulfar]

It should be 50% anyway, not surprised to see the councils trying to rip people off again.

In this instance, I am glad that it will affect pensioners so is unlikely to happen.

[scrappycocco]

This could be real, the bedroom thing isn't.

[olliegog]

the way council tax was originated it was a compromise between the community charge (poll tax) and the old rateable value system

so 50% of the CT was the old rateable value bit - as valued at the time and the other 50% was based on two people occupying (a sort of poll tax although more than 2 people do not get included) - this is why the discount for someone living alone or with eligible non-counted persons like students/disabled etc - gets a 25% discount .

difficult to argue with that reasoning as a single person uses far fewer resources than the 'family'

editted to add - this is why second/empty homes are eligible for a 50% discount as there are no occupants to count in for the other 50%

Edited June 9, 2013 by olliegog

[Frank Hovis]

the way council tax was originated it was a compromise between the community charge (poll tax) and the old rateable value system

so 50% of the CT was the old rateable value bit - as valued at the time and the other 50% was based on two people occupying (a sort of poll tax although more than 2 people do not get included) - this is why the discount for someone living alone or with eligible non-counted persons like students/disabled etc - gets a 25% discount .

difficult to argue with that reasoning as a single person uses far fewer resources than the 'family'

That's interesting, I didn't know where the 25% came from.

editted to add - this is why second/empty homes are eligible for a 50% discount as there are no occupants to count in for the other 50%

That has pleasingly now gone with Cornwall (amazingly) leading the way:

Owners who leave their properties in Cornwall empty for more than two years will have to pay 150 per cent of their council tax bill, while discounts for second home owners have been scrapped in an unprecedented move taken today.

Second home owners currently receiving a 10 per cent reduction on their council tax will be stung for potentially hundreds of pounds extra a year, after Cornwall Council today became the first local authority in the country to approve ending second home discounts.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2236318/Second-home-council-tax-discount-scrapped-Cornwall.html

[pjw]

the way council tax was originated it was a compromise between the community charge (poll tax) and the old rateable value system

so 50% of the CT was the old rateable value bit - as valued at the time and the other 50% was based on two people occupying (a sort of poll tax although more than 2 people do not get included) - this is why the discount for someone living alone or with eligible non-counted persons like students/disabled etc - gets a 25% discount .

difficult to argue with that reasoning as a single person uses far fewer resources than the 'family'

editted to add - this is why second/empty homes are eligible for a 50% discount as there are no occupants to count in for the other 50%

But second homes do not get a 50% discount. Councils have been allowed to reduce the second home discount to only 10%, and so most councils have done that. There may be the odd council here and there that still gives a 50% discount.

[olliegog]

But second homes do not get a 50% discount. Councils have been allowed to reduce the second home discount to only 10%, and so most councils have done that. There may be the odd council here and there that still gives a 50% discount.

yes - lots of them have stopped this now - I think empty homes pay no council tax for 6 months

as local councils have the freedom to vary what they charge - the 25% discount could be in danger

[billybong]

Removing the 25% single persons' council tax discount will no doubt come under

The government said every council had to "do its bit" to save money.

http://

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22801759

mentioned on an earlier thread.

Edited June 9, 2013 by billybong

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

the way council tax was originated it was a compromise between the community charge (poll tax) and the old rateable value system

so 50% of the CT was the old rateable value bit - as valued at the time and the other 50% was based on two people occupying (a sort of poll tax although more than 2 people do not get included) - this is why the discount for someone living alone or with eligible non-counted persons like students/disabled etc - gets a 25% discount .

difficult to argue with that reasoning as a single person uses far fewer resources than the 'family'

editted to add - this is why second/empty homes are eligible for a 50% discount as there are no occupants to count in for the other 50%

its not difficult to argue at all because the resource usage is captured by the rental value the yield, which is fundamentally locational access and has chuff all to do with the number of occupants otherwise identical 3 bed houses in cleethorpes and Kensington Gardens would attract the same rental value

Edited June 9, 2013 by georgia o'keeffe

[davidg]

yes - lots of them have stopped this now - I think empty homes pay no council tax for 6 months

An unoccupied, unfurnished home pays no council tax for 3 months from the date the furniture is first removed. A furnished unoccupied property pays full council tax.

[R K]

taxy taxy

[debtlessmanc]

My partner just sold her house (less than she paid in 2005). I has stood empty for two years and she paid 90% of council tax for this period. She phoned to tell the council tax collection department about it, person on other end said "was it actually empty? do you have any children in full time education", she told them her son had been at university during this period (when at home he lived in our flat 100 miles away). Person on other end said, okay, i will put him down as sole occupant for last two years and give you £3500 rebate. I was/am speechless!

[pjw]

Well, at a time when everyone is having the council tax more or less frozen, I can envisage people who live alone getting a swingeing 30% increase. As far as I am concerned, the council tax is just a con anyway - forcing people who don't have pensions in place, other than the state retirement pension of £100 a week, to fund the occupational pensions of the council workers. It is quite literally just fraud.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

I personally think council tax should higher, and that income tax should be cut. Easy to fix this, just stop central Government giving any money to local authorities.

[pjw]

I personally think council tax should higher, and that income tax should be cut. Easy to fix this, just stop central Government giving any money to local authorities.

Well, personally, I think income tax should be cut, and central government should not give money to local authorities - but the council tax should be replaced by A LAND VALUE TAX. A tax on the value of the unimproved land - falling on freeholders, not all residents - as they are the ones who passively garner the increase in land values that come from social activity and economic growth.

[the shaping machine]

A tax on the value of the unimproved land - falling on freeholders, not all residents - as they are the ones who passively garner the increase in land values that come from social activity and economic growth.

Increases in "land values" are not the only benefit occupiers receive from LA spending (and in recent years most haven't received them at all), so it would be illogical to tax solely on that basis.

If we are suggesting local taxation reform: I'd like to see as many services as possible charged at cost to the resident. For example: the LA could offer a full weekly bin emptying service at X, or just a DIY right to deliver to the local tip for Y.

Edited June 9, 2013 by the shaping machine

[billybong]

Increases in "land values" are not the only benefit occupiers receive from LA spending (and in recent years most haven't received them at all), so it would be illogical to tax solely on that basis.

If we are suggesting local taxation reform: I'd like to see as many services as possible should be charged at cost to the resident. For example: the LA could offer a full weekly bin emptying service at X, or just a DIY right to deliver to the local tip for Y.

If only it would stop at that.

Don't give them ideas as they'll still charge council tax and start charging for those individual services on top as well.

[MRMX9]

Under our current system a Russian oligarch living alone in a £30m Belgravia mansion would get a 25% discount - do you think they need it? I think that's the point councils are making i.e. they would potentially means test.

Council tax badly needs reform - said same oligarch in his £30m mansion actually pays less council tax than a pensioner couple living in a modest semi in Croydon due to the artificially low council tax in Westminster (heavily subsidised by government and parking income etc).

[pjw]

Under our current system a Russian oligarch living alone in a £30m Belgravia mansion would get a 25% discount - do you think they need it? I think that's the point councils are making i.e. they would potentially means test.

Council tax badly needs reform - said same oligarch in his £30m mansion actually pays less council tax than a pensioner couple living in a modest semi in Croydon due to the artificially low council tax in Westminster (heavily subsidised by government and parking income etc).

They wouldn't just raise the tax on oligarchs unfortunately: Council Tax is a licence for fraudsters in the council to print money for themselves and their means tests would be drawn in such a way as to give themselves the maximum pay rises, pensions and perks.

[Parkwell]

Well, personally, I think income tax should be cut, and central government should not give money to local authorities - but the council tax should be replaced by A LAND VALUE TAX. A tax on the value of the unimproved land - falling on freeholders, not all residents - as they are the ones who passively garner the increase in land values that come from social activity and economic growth.

Yes. Although I favour flat rate land tax tiered to usage.

[olliegog]

Under our current system a Russian oligarch living alone in a £30m Belgravia mansion would get a 25% discount - do you think they need it? I think that's the point councils are making i.e. they would potentially means test.

Council tax badly needs reform - said same oligarch in his £30m mansion actually pays less council tax than a pensioner couple living in a modest semi in Croydon due to the artificially low council tax in Westminster (heavily subsidised by government and parking income etc).

not really the point - the £30m mansion and other overpriced million pound plus properties in London area should have a higher council tax band (currently the highest is band H - I think) so given the amount of council tax he has to pay (very little to him) - an extra 25% is neither here nor there.

council tax benefit is already means-tested - lots of people either get a reduction in council tax or pay nothing (those on pension credit) so it seems bizarre to add another level of means testing to the amount of council tax collected.

very unfair to single people IMO - who already are at the disadvantage compared to couples and 'hardworking families)

Edited June 10, 2013 by olliegog

[phead]

In other news the council is coming round to resurface my road, thats despite the face that it is a minor residential road with not a single fault on it, not even a single spot of damage, not a single pothole in its lifetime.

Its my roads "turn" apparently. Turn to push a bunch of notes into someones back pocket I'm sure.

[Caveat Mortgagor]

In other news the council is coming round to resurface my road, thats despite the face that it is a minor residential road with not a single fault on it, not even a single spot of damage, not a single pothole in its lifetime.

Its my roads "turn" apparently. Turn to push a bunch of notes into someones back pocket I'm sure.

If they do a poor enough job of the resurfacing, you will start getting potholes so they really can justify spending even more of your money mending it every couple of years (but not until you fecked the suspension on your motor of course!)

[Venger]

It's back on the agenda.

15 March 2014

Council tax single person discount 'should be reviewed'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26588810

.

519 comments so far.

[winkie]

..... ways you could get around this......either get a lodger, or downsize to a lower band or move to a lower council tax area like for like, band for band.