Epc - How Accurate Are They

[sleepwello'nights]

That's a rather pedantic distinction!

So ask for one. If they squirm walk away.

Why? A lot of reasons have been given on this thread why it isn't that useful.

[motch]

Points to note:

• I assume your coal isn't free?
• Loft insulation is now advised to be over 9" thick. If you have floor boards down chances are it's only 4-6 inches, plus it's compressed making it less efficient.
• He wont know everything about every front door. If it's a new PVC door he should have assumed it was insulated.
• The boiler - just because it's been serviced it doesn't mean it's efficient.
• LEDs - they have to assume you will leave the LED bulbs in... it's not they are going to wear out.... in your lifetime.
• It's their job to advise of possible improvements, if they are honest they'll advise of ROI timescales, but remember energy prices can go up as well as up.

EPC is largely about measuring the surface area of the walls, windows and loft and applying a weighting to each based on the type of windows and insulation fitted. A formula is then used to calculate the overall EPC rating, including adjustments for heating and lighting.

It's very scientific, and follows strict rules. Usually the man will have to measure everything... doors, walls, windows etc. The have to draw out a plan of the house "folded out" showing all the walls. The exception will be if you are on an estate where all the houses are made from the same plans... then he may already have all the plans fro a previous job and just needs to apply the weightings.

My brother-in-law does it.

Any mention of south/North facing windows in the equations? Does property to the side, underneath or above effect the figures? Shelter/screening from big tree? Height of building have any outcome on the EPC?

[motch]

I thought EPCs were another pointless euro-regulation?

Surely the easier and simpler route would be to require disclosure of the last three year's utility bills when a house is offered for sale. You can't really argue with history.

i think EPCs are generally crap. However the last three years bills could range from someone never having the heating on, to someone who likes to sit around in their shorts in the middle of winter at 26c

[StainlessSteelCat]

Oddly enough I've been looking into our house's EPC because apparently you have to be D or better to get a full feed in tariff now for PV.

It will be virtually impossible to get ours to a D. It's a hundred year old stone built cottage, no cavity, fully double glazed including doors, low energy light bulbs everywhere. A single open fire to heat the place (we burn local fallen wood in it). No gas. Our annual energy bill will be under £400 because all of our appliances are low energy.

We barely get off the G mark according to the official assessment. That's utterly barking. The projected savings I could make from some changes are several times more than my entire energy bill

Edited June 5, 2013 by StainlessSteelCat

[Edanmount]

Oddly enough I've been looking into our house's EPC because apparently you have to be D or better to get a full feed in tariff now for PV.

It will be virtually impossible to get ours to a D. It's a hundred year old stone built cottage, no cavity, fully double glazed including doors, low energy light bulbs everywhere. A single open fire to heat the place (we burn local fallen wood in it). No gas. Our annual energy bill will be under £400 because all of our appliances are low energy.

We barely get off the G mark according to the official assessment. That's utterly barking. The projected savings I could make from some changes are several times more than my entire energy bill

Do you think that a poor EPC would affect the value of a property - buyer's perception?

I think that low EPC homes will probably not sell when buyers make a quick glance through websites - a bit like "kerb appeal."

However, I suspect that newer houses which have better EPC's will actually cost more than they claim and older houses will costs less.

[StainlessSteelCat]

Do you think that a poor EPC would affect the value of a property - buyer's perception?

I think that low EPC homes will probably not sell when buyers make a quick glance through websites - a bit like "kerb appeal."

However, I suspect that newer houses which have better EPC's will actually cost more than they claim and older houses will costs less.

I think it could do - but maybe not for a while. In the early days of house hunting I was horrified by how bad most EPC values were. I later came to realise that the majority of UK housing stock is awful on the EPC front and paid little attention to them. Looking at the house on the ground is far more valuable in many respects. It was obvious we had something of a mountain to climb - but also that small, cheap changes could make quite a bit of difference to the quality of life and energy costs. The £3K spent on double glazing cured nearly all of the drafts, made the place feel instantly warmer and also cut down on weather noise (we get 100mph gales here sometimes!) Plus the old wooden frames burned well too. A fiver on immersion tank insulation meant the water stayed warm for 3 hours instead of one.

I am also somewhat cynical about EPCs now too. Is it really greener to replace an ancient but still working immersion heater which now gets used around a dozen times a year with the latest and greatest expensive green boiler tech? We simply put an efficient electric shower in to supplement it - and boil kettles for washing up.

I suspect the average punter has no idea what they mean though.

[Bemusedmover]

Do you think that a poor EPC would affect the value of a property - buyer's perception?

I think that low EPC homes will probably not sell when buyers make a quick glance through websites - a bit like "kerb appeal."

However, I suspect that newer houses which have better EPC's will actually cost more than they claim and older houses will costs less.

Yes, but we have been discussing how inaccurate and full of guesswork the EPC really is.

Does anyone actually pay enough attention to them anyway?

(My own EPC was a joke we actually ended up nearly 2 sections lower based mainly on guesswork )

for example...

The lack of TRV`s does not reflect the insulative properties of a house but does result in a very poor score!

Loft insulation - it is the first 100mm that is most important after that the extra costs involved in making it thicker take a surprisingly long time to recoup

Replacing a perfectly good and working boiler with a brand new one may/will save on your gas bill but you will never save enough to recover the outlay before it breaks down, and that also fails to consider the environmental implications of manufacturing and shipping the new boiler as well as disposing of the old one

...we could go on and on!

[the gardener]

I really don't know what the EPC for my new house said. I didn't ask for it and never saw it. We bought it within hours of it being marketed so perhaps they didn't have time to get one done.

I would take no notice of an EPC anyway as I am quite capable of seeing whether a house has double glazing or not.

[the shaping machine]

i think EPCs are generally crap. However the last three years bills could range from someone never having the heating on, to someone who likes to sit around in their shorts in the middle of winter at 26c

True, but a glance at the thermostat would probably be illuminating.

Utility bill records have the advantage of being simple to understand, cheap to produce, and hard to game.

EPCs are the classic politician's solution; expensive, bureaucratic, and almost completely ineffective.