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Wurzel Of Highbridge

The Future For Gas And Fuel Prices.

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I have been looking at HHO generators the last couple of days and I must say that they are a fantastic idea. You basically convert water to Hydrogen and Oxygen using a 12v 20 Amp power source.

If you drive a HHO generator from solar panels you essentially get 'free' gas.

You can store the gas mixed with air at low pressure, it can be stored safely in small quantities and used to power devices such as small engines (youtube HHO lawnmower), combi-boilers and gas cookers. One recent storage tank I read about basically involved two plastic dustbins, one 1/2 filled with water with the other one placed upside down inside with a weight on top - it operates like a mini version of one of those huge gas towers.

From a bit of googling it seems that from a couple of goof EV solar panels and a regular HHO generator you can generate 1.5 litres of gas per hour.

Has anyone here experience of such a setup?

Does anyone think that this technology will have a huge effect on gas/fuel prices over the coming years?

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I have been looking at HHO generators the last couple of days and I must say that they are a fantastic idea. You basically convert water to Hydrogen and Oxygen using a 12v 20 Amp power source.

If you drive a HHO generator from solar panels you essentially get 'free' gas.

You can store the gas mixed with air at low pressure, it can be stored safely in small quantities and used to power devices such as small engines (youtube HHO lawnmower), combi-boilers and gas cookers. One recent storage tank I read about basically involved two plastic dustbins, one 1/2 filled with water with the other one placed upside down inside with a weight on top - it operates like a mini version of one of those huge gas towers.

From a bit of googling it seems that from a couple of goof EV solar panels and a regular HHO generator you can generate 1.5 litres of gas per hour.

Has anyone here experience of such a setup?

Does anyone think that this technology will have a huge effect on gas/fuel prices over the coming years?

Larger market forces at play I would guess.

Dominant factors for oil usage will be things like uptake of cars in the developing world, adoption of higher fuel efficiency vehicles in the developed world. I am not so sure they can get the engines much more efficient but what they will do is reduce the weight by moving to aluminum and composites.

On the supply site I think that the US is predicted to be energy independent in oil and gas by 2025 ? So it will be interesting to see how this balances out against Far East demand for example.

There will have to be a step change in energy tech in order to make a significant difference that way. Maybe much better battery (say x10).

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Storing any reasonable quality of hydrogen and oxygen in a stoichiometric mixture is darwin award territory. Proper explosive, supersonic flame fronts, the whole nine yards. If your 1.5 litres goes off, remember to look for your eardrums on the floor.....

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Storing any reasonable quality of hydrogen and oxygen in a stoichiometric mixture is darwin award territory. Proper explosive, supersonic flame fronts, the whole nine yards. If your 1.5 litres goes off, remember to look for your eardrums on the floor.....

I believe that if you mix it with air and store it at a low pressure and take safety precautions against blow-backs then it is no more dangerous than Propane.

I was thinking that for home use you could store it a couple of meters underground which would be relatively safe. I don't know if this would be more efficient than converting solar energy to 240v and shoving it back into the grid.

Must admit I quite like the idea of producing my own gas that I could use for cooking / heating as and when required. It must be a better form of storage than storing solar energy in batteries??

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I believe that if you mix it with air and store it at a low pressure and take safety precautions against blow-backs then it is no more dangerous than Propane.

I was thinking that for home use you could store it a couple of meters underground which would be relatively safe. I don't know if this would be more efficient than converting solar energy to 240v and shoving it back into the grid.

Must admit I quite like the idea of producing my own gas that I could use for cooking / heating as and when required. It must be a better form of storage than storing solar energy in batteries??

Propane is a fuel, it will burn in the air. A mixture of air and hydrogen is fuel and air ready mixed, it just needs a spark and bang.

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I have been looking at HHO generators the last couple of days and I must say that they are a fantastic idea. You basically convert water to Hydrogen and Oxygen using a 12v 20 Amp power source.

If you drive a HHO generator from solar panels you essentially get 'free' gas.

You can store the gas mixed with air at low pressure, it can be stored safely in small quantities and used to power devices such as small engines (youtube HHO lawnmower), combi-boilers and gas cookers. One recent storage tank I read about basically involved two plastic dustbins, one 1/2 filled with water with the other one placed upside down inside with a weight on top - it operates like a mini version of one of those huge gas towers.

From a bit of googling it seems that from a couple of goof EV solar panels and a regular HHO generator you can generate 1.5 litres of gas per hour.

Has anyone here experience of such a setup?

Does anyone think that this technology will have a huge effect on gas/fuel prices over the coming years?

if you check the TCOs (total cost of ownership) per kWh and the classic petrol/diesel/nuclear/gas/coal power; these are still at least 10x cheaper than your approach

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I believe that if you mix it with air and store it at a low pressure and take safety precautions against blow-backs then it is no more dangerous than Propane.

I was thinking that for home use you could store it a couple of meters underground which would be relatively safe. I don't know if this would be more efficient than converting solar energy to 240v and shoving it back into the grid.

Must admit I quite like the idea of producing my own gas that I could use for cooking / heating as and when required. It must be a better form of storage than storing solar energy in batteries??

it is not efficient at all, but you will get a plenty of government subsidy

ideally you can build fake solar panels and with some clever wiring you can be selling the grid electricity back to the grid for about 4times more, what you pay for it

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Quite. You have fuel and you have air. When you want to do something with it, you mix a little bit of fuel and air together, put it in a really strong container (an engine cylinder) and set light to it. You don't pre mix the fuel if you want to live to an old age.

Consider a cylinder of propane - if I crack open the valve, and set light to the gas coming out, I get a big sheet of flame. The flame cannot go back into the cylinder as there is no oxygen in there - it is all propane. So my rate of burn is simply the rate at which the gas comes out.

Now mix the propane with air. I crack open the valve and set light to it. The flame front will be >> faster than the speed of the gas, so within about a millisecond, the whole cylinder will go up. Boom.

If you are going to do this, store the hydrogen separately and use it as gas. But beware, hydrogen permeates everything, including solid metal. You have a very high chance of leaks leading to blow ups.

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it is not efficient at all, but you will get a plenty of government subsidy

ideally you can build fake solar panels and with some clever wiring you can be selling the grid electricity back to the grid for about 4times more, what you pay for it

Now that is creative thinking

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I believe that if you mix it with air and store it at a low pressure and take safety precautions against blow-backs then it is no more dangerous than Propane.

I was thinking that for home use you could store it a couple of meters underground which would be relatively safe. I don't know if this would be more efficient than converting solar energy to 240v and shoving it back into the grid.

Must admit I quite like the idea of producing my own gas that I could use for cooking / heating as and when required. It must be a better form of storage than storing solar energy in batteries??

While it may be worth it from an energy-independence point of view, I can't see it being economical to use electricity to generate gas, given that a lot of our power stations burn gas to generate electricity! (Yes, not hydrogen I know, but the argument still applies.) Also, modern grid-tie inverters used to convert DC to 240 V AC can be very efficient, around 90% under optimum operating conditions.

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if you check the TCOs (total cost of ownership) per kWh and the classic petrol/diesel/nuclear/gas/coal power; these are still at least 10x cheaper than your approach

Is that before or after government tax and corporate profits?

Find it quite hard to believe:

2 good solat panels £2000

1 fuel cell £200

1 low pressure storage tank £1000

Some bits and bobs £1000

1 litre of petrol £1.35 / Home heating oil £0.60

So the whole kit costs around 4000 litres of petrol or 8000 litres of heating oil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffw

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Must admit I quite like the idea of producing my own gas that I could use for cooking / heating as and when required.

Have you looked at some form of anaerobic digestion? Dump a load of biodegradable materials into a sealed container and off you go. It does require a bit of space but they're slowly starting to gain momentum (8-10 being installed nationwide per quarter ATM according to Ofgen figures).

Hydrogen storage itself is also starting to become used (Germany recently awarded a large contract to try and store energy generated via renewable sources for later use). Have a look on the Hydrogenics website for more information.

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Never in our lifetimes will energy be as cheap as we have had over the last hundred years. People expect something to match oil forgetting that it took hundreds of millions of years of energy storage to create the oil what we will of almost completely used in 200 years. I am not saying it will be impossible but we are a far way off.

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Have you looked at some form of anaerobic digestion? Dump a load of biodegradable materials into a sealed container and off you go. It does require a bit of space but they're slowly starting to gain momentum (8-10 being installed nationwide per quarter ATM according to Ofgen figures).

Hydrogen storage itself is also starting to become used (Germany recently awarded a large contract to try and store energy generated via renewable sources for later use). Have a look on the Hydrogenics website for more information.

Thanks, I will look into that.

Over in Ireland it is quite usual to have a septic tank, do you think that this would produce much gas? Enough to store and run a gas cooker / gas boiler? We would only be using the gas boiler during the cooler weather, so it could be stored all year round.

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No need to worry about hydrogen. We'll soon have gravity energy.

http://www.rarenergia.com.br/

Scroll right down to the bottom of the page to see the latest photos in this dance of the seven veils. :D

I'm not sure I trust anything published by someone who doesn't understand why you shouldn't make a single web page over 15mb :)

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Never in our lifetimes will energy be as cheap as we have had over the last hundred years. People expect something to match oil forgetting that it took hundreds of millions of years of energy storage to create the oil what we will of almost completely used in 200 years. I am not saying it will be impossible but we are a far way off.

Rubbish - You have no faith in technology and human ingenuity.

I suspect that if you were alive in the 60's you would say that it was impossible to invent a tiny computer on which you could watch films in colour with full sound.

Sometimes things seem impossible

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No need to worry about hydrogen. We'll soon have gravity energy.

http://www.rarenergia.com.br/

Scroll right down to the bottom of the page to see the latest photos in this dance of the seven veils. :D

WTF is that?

A perpetual motion gravity machine that will generate 30kw electricity? :D

It looks expensivey, who would cough up the money to build it? - are the photos in fact of something else entirely, something more serious?

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Is that before or after government tax and corporate profits?

Find it quite hard to believe:

2 good solat panels £2000

1 fuel cell £200

1 low pressure storage tank £1000

Some bits and bobs £1000

1 litre of petrol £1.35 / Home heating oil £0.60

So the whole kit costs around 4000 litres of petrol or 8000 litres of heating oil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffw

the efficiency of the photo voltaic panels is about 20% max

the efficiency of the electrolysis is about 50% max

the efficiency of burning the generated gas in your gas boiler is about 80% max

you will be much better off to use the heat exchange solar panels to heat up your house directly or build some heat storage

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Is that before or after government tax and corporate profits?

Find it quite hard to believe:

2 good solat panels £2000

1 fuel cell £200

1 low pressure storage tank £1000

Some bits and bobs £1000

1 litre of petrol £1.35 / Home heating oil £0.60

So the whole kit costs around 4000 litres of petrol or 8000 litres of heating oil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffw

everage sunshine in UK - 400W/m2

your house heating requirement - 5kW

solar heat exchange - at least 12 m2

photovoltaic hydrogen generation - at least 125 m2

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Storing any reasonable quality of hydrogen and oxygen in a stoichiometric mixture is darwin award territory. Proper explosive, supersonic flame fronts, the whole nine yards. If your 1.5 litres goes off, remember to look for your eardrums on the floor.....

I was thinking that - I remember when Challenger blew up (which I think was hydrogen/oxygen, please correct if wrong), that looked like a BIG bang, considering how high it was when it blew.

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El machina motiona perpetuo. This gravity engine isn't new. It works by extracting the earth's gravity from below it. The only problem is that once it's used up all the gravity underneath it, it will float away. They built one of these in 1886, it was smaller, but it ran for many years until the gravity was used up. In the end, it hovered inside its engine shed, until it was cut up for scrap in 1941 for the war effort. To this day, the place where it stood has no gravity, and because of that, the location's been kept secret.

I'm sure it will make a huge contribution to the world's energy requirements, and be well worth the no doubt immense subsidy it's had.

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everage sunshine in UK - 400W/m2

your house heating requirement - 5kW

solar heat exchange - at least 12 m2

photovoltaic hydrogen generation - at least 125 m2

No idea about these figures but it'd almost certainly be cheaper just to build a Passivhaus in the first place.

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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