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Harry Monk

Relaxation Of Smoking Laws In Pubs

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I'm wondering if it's time to relax smoking laws and to allow people to smoke in pubs again.

I don't mean a blanket relaxation, just a change in the law which would mean that if the publican, staff and clientele all agreed, that smoking cigarettes in certain pubs would be permissible. Such pubs could be clearly identified as smoking pubs at the entrance so that non-smokers would know to avoid them.

As we all know, the pub trade has died a death in the last five years, for sure the smoking ban is not the only reason- we could also discuss beer duty- but surely it would not hurt any puritan if there was a place where non-puritans congregated and spent money?

It seems to me that when pubs lost the smoke, they lost the atmosphere. ;)

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Guest eight

I'm wondering if it's time to relax smoking laws and to allow people to smoke in pubs again.

I don't mean a blanket relaxation, just a change in the law which would mean that if the publican, staff and clientele all agreed, that smoking cigarettes in certain pubs would be permissible. Such pubs could be clearly identified as smoking pubs at the entrance so that non-smokers would know to avoid them.

As we all know, the pub trade has died a death in the last five years, for sure the smoking ban is not the only reason- we could also discuss beer duty- but surely it would not hurt any puritan if there was a place where non-puritans congregated and spent money?

It seems to me that when pubs lost the smoke, they lost the atmosphere. ;)

No good changing the law if the places in question couldn't then get employer's liability insurance. I think that would have killed smoking in pubs even if the government hadn't.

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They would lose what customers they have managed to retain.

Things change, for every pub round here that has shut - and that is many, we have at least one new restaurant.

Somewhat perversely their is a massive growth in high quality microbreweries and local breweries producing unbelievably good beers. I tend to get all my beers draught and bottled from a specialist shop these days, unless I'm in a town with a decent local brewery.

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I agree Harry, but I think it's a lost cause. I'm a VI in this case- in my early 20s I spent many a happy evening in pubs with a pint on the table and a fag in my hand; after a couple of years of being a 3-4 nights-a-week regular at my local (and with the help of my far more gregarious best mate) we were regulars for a lock-in with the staff. I quite often used to get my dinner in there- 4 quid for a tasty meal, albeit probably delivered by a 'food service' company and microwaved, but I was happy since it was <£2 a pint and I could get started on the beers early. Happy days TBH- and I even met my wife in there. I was round a table with our regular crew, she was sat in the 'non-smoking' area, which since it was just a raised corner of the pub, was probably every bit as smoky as the rest of it!

I'm still a (fairly moderate) smoker, and to her credit she doesn't seem to care at all, despite never having smoked herself.

I was of course against the smoking ban, and it has certainly had an extremely adverse effect on said local, which is a cheap chain pub in a downmarket SE London suburb. Albeit that, once married, my pub visits tailed off naturally anyway, I still go in there every so often and it really is a sad shadow of its former self. On a hot sunny evening the beer garden will be rammo with smoking reprobates, but the rest of the time it's dead. I guess they must have a cheap lease, else I can't see how they stay open.

But- opinion polls at the time (which I have no reason to disbelieve) came up with about 80% of the population being in favour of the smoking ban. Probably at least 80% of that 80% were not regular pub-goers, since non-smokers are, in my experience, more likely to be tedious people ;) . It is debatable whether the current (lamentable) decline of the pub trade is due to the smoking ban, or excessive beer duty / general economic malaise. Although as a natural libertarian I believe that it should be up to pub owners to decide whether smoking is allowed in their establishment, I also as someone who believes in the principle of democracy find it hard to argue my case against 4 out of 5 of my fellow citizens who believe in their right to sit in a pub without my smoke getting up their nose, even if the majority of them never actually excercise that newly found right :rolleyes: .

On the plus side, as a boring married old git, when I go abroad on holiday and hit the nightclubs, being allowed to spark one up on the dancefloor is all the more enjoyable! :D

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IMO the answer is to allow smoking in a designated area of the pub, if it can be sealed off from the non-smoking area such that no smoke contaminates it. This would mean airtight double doors and/or a separate entrance from the exterior of the building.

The problem when it was allowed was that the non-smoking area in a typical pub usually consisted of two or three tables in a corner of a large, open plan space. Sitting there did nothing to prevent a sore throat, stinging eyes, stinking clothes and all the other unpleasant effects of being in close proximity to tobacco smoke. I have no problem with people who like it being allowed to do it, if they can be effectively insulated from everyone else.

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IMO the answer is to allow smoking in a designated area of the pub, if it can be sealed off from the non-smoking area such that no smoke contaminates it. This would mean airtight double doors and/or a separate entrance from the exterior of the building.

The problem when it was allowed was that the non-smoking area in a typical pub usually consisted of two or three tables in a corner of a large, open plan space. Sitting there did nothing to prevent a sore throat, stinging eyes, stinking clothes and all the other unpleasant effects of being in close proximity to tobacco smoke. I have no problem with people who like it being allowed to do it, if they can be effectively insulated from everyone else.

i have no problem with smoking in pubs if I can take a super soaker along in response. They get smoke in my clothes - I blast them with water. Same effect, innnit?

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I agree Harry, but I think it's a lost cause. I'm a VI in this case- in my early 20s I spent many a happy evening in pubs with a pint on the table and a fag in my hand; after a couple of years of being a 3-4 nights-a-week regular at my local (and with the help of my far more gregarious best mate) we were regulars for a lock-in with the staff. I quite often used to get my dinner in there- 4 quid for a tasty meal, albeit probably delivered by a 'food service' company and microwaved, but I was happy since it was <£2 a pint and I could get started on the beers early. Happy days TBH- and I even met my wife in there. I was round a table with our regular crew, she was sat in the 'non-smoking' area, which since it was just a raised corner of the pub, was probably every bit as smoky as the rest of it!

I'm still a (fairly moderate) smoker, and to her credit she doesn't seem to care at all, despite never having smoked herself.

I was of course against the smoking ban, and it has certainly had an extremely adverse effect on said local, which is a cheap chain pub in a downmarket SE London suburb. Albeit that, once married, my pub visits tailed off naturally anyway, I still go in there every so often and it really is a sad shadow of its former self. On a hot sunny evening the beer garden will be rammo with smoking reprobates, but the rest of the time it's dead. I guess they must have a cheap lease, else I can't see how they stay open.

But- opinion polls at the time (which I have no reason to disbelieve) came up with about 80% of the population being in favour of the smoking ban. Probably at least 80% of that 80% were not regular pub-goers, since non-smokers are, in my experience, more likely to be tedious people ;) . It is debatable whether the current (lamentable) decline of the pub trade is due to the smoking ban, or excessive beer duty / general economic malaise. Although as a natural libertarian I believe that it should be up to pub owners to decide whether smoking is allowed in their establishment, I also as someone who believes in the principle of democracy find it hard to argue my case against 4 out of 5 of my fellow citizens who believe in their right to sit in a pub without my smoke getting up their nose, even if the majority of them never actually excercise that newly found right :rolleyes: .

On the plus side, as a boring married old git, when I go abroad on holiday and hit the nightclubs, being allowed to spark one up on the dancefloor is all the more enjoyable! :D

Maybe times just change. I remember my great pub going days, from the mid to the late 80s... before the internet, when TV was watched by millions. Heck, Eastenders on Xmas day 1986 was watched by over 30 million!

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No need for centralised coercion, let people decide what they want to do via the free market. If you want to smoke go to a "freedom pub", if you don`t then go to Starbucks with all the mums and get ripped off.

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I've never smoked but I have a lot of sympathy with smoking in pubs.

I rarely go to the pub, and when I do it's usually for a quick cheap meal and a soft drink. I appreciate the lack of smoke and used to go even less when smoking was allowed. But frankly, if they relied on people like me for custom - most would go bankrupt. That said, Wetherspoons seems to do OK but perhaps they have an economy of scale.

I agree with Ayatollah - sealed off smoking areas seems the sensible solution, providing staff aren't coerced into working in them if they don't wish to.

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I get fed up stating the obvious. Smoking at work was banned, NOT smoking in pubs. Huge numbers of countries have adopted similar rules.

I know regular smokers who admit that pubs are now nicer places to go than they were before. Pubs full of smoke are disgusting.

I think you can tell I'm reformed, the worst. I smoked for over 10 years but gave up in 1993 when they got to £2 a packet. :o

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The problem with "go somewhere else" is that there's often nowhere else to go to pub-wise, without having to up the cost a lot by having to get travel too. Ideally a pub needs to be within walking distance and that's a stretch for a lot of suburban areas, let alone rural ones.

Personally speaking I'm fairly ambivalent to smoking within pubs. They're (usually) a lot nicer without it but not to the point of putting me off going.

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A couple I frequent get the ashtrays out some evenings.

Quite a lot of friends have now got home bars, with neon lights, slot machines, wide variety of drinks etc. I can't ever imagine drinking daily in a pub again, like I did before the ban. Plus beer is a lot more expensive now relative t wages in the pub.

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I used to like coming home reeking of beer and fags! Women find that sexy! :blink:

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I'm wondering if it's time to relax smoking laws and to allow people to smoke in pubs again.

Last time I looked it was in UKIP's manifesto to do exactly that - end the ban on smoking in pubs and clubs.

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Thanks, didn't know that, think that's my vote written in stone now!

Really couldn't see the problem with a publican being free to choose whether to allow smoking on his premises. Provided a pub is clearly marked at the entrance as being a "smoking permitted" pub, then non-smokers have the option of not entering it. Unfortunately many non-smokers do seem rather puritanical and meddlesome in outlook and seem to expect to have a fairly high degree of control over what others do.

I was driving through Trowbridge this week and saw a huge advertisement on the side of a house which read "Smoking during pregnancy is tantamount to manslaughter". :rolleyes:

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I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this. I think people should be able to do what they like without government interference, but was absolutely delighted when they brought this law in. I couldn't go into pubs with a lot of smoke in as it used to give me pains whenever I breathed for about a week afterwards. Plus my poor old Mum couldn't go in anywhere due to her asthma.

I can't imagine how grim it was working in an office or going on the tube when you could smoke there. I remember going to the cinema when I was a kid and it was just full of smoke.

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I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this. I think people should be able to do what they like without government interference, but was absolutely delighted when they brought this law in. I couldn't go into pubs with a lot of smoke in as it used to give me pains whenever I breathed for about a week afterwards. Plus my poor old Mum couldn't go in anywhere due to her asthma.

The point I always try to make is that if there were smoking pubs and non-smoking pubs, then non-smokers could choose to go in a non-smoking pub, and smokers could go into a smoking pub.

Here's a very sad tale of a 123-year-old pub which closed down in large part due to the smoking ban according to the landlady.

Paul Waterson, Chief Executive of the SLTA, said: “We have lost some really good historical places over the last few years. Sadly the majority of them won’t reopen.

“The traditional pubs in particular have never really recovered after the smoking ban. Almost 80 per cent of their three to five days a week drinkers would smoke.

“When they told us the pub would be full of non-smokers it was nonsense then and it still is.”

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/pub-closure-blamed-on-rising-prices-and-smoking-ban-1-2772938

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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