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Frank Hovis

Led Lights Damage Your Eyes

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First it's those ugly flourescent bulbs poisoning us with mercury and giving us headaches when they eventually warm up, now it's LED lights damaging our eyes.

I wouldn't mind either as long as normal bulbs were an option, that neither poison us nor damage our sight, but no the government has banned these nasty things because THEY KNOW BEST. <_<

Dr. Celia Sánchez-Ramos, of Complutense University in Madrid and who led the study, explained that light from LEDs, or light-emitting diodes, comes from the short-wave, high-energy blue and violet end of the visible light spectrum.

She said that prolonged, continuous exposure to this light may be enough to damage a person's retina.

The retina is composed of light-sensitive tissue that is responsible for detecting light and in turn allowing us to see.

‘This problem is going to get worse, because humans are living longer and children are using electronic devices from a young age, particularly for schoolwork,’ Sánchez-Ramos told ThinkSpain.com.

‘Eyes are not designed to look directly at light — they are designed to see with light,’ Sánchez-Ramos said.

Her comments are partly based on her 2012 study that was published in the journal Photochemistry and Photobiology.

The study found that LED radiation caused significant damage to human retinal pigment epithelial cells in vitro.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2324325/Do-environmentally-friendly-LED-lights-cause-BLINDNESS.html

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First it's those ugly flourescent bulbs poisoning us with mercury and giving us headaches when they eventually warm up, now it's LED lights damaging our eyes.

I wouldn't mind either as long as normal bulbs were an option, that neither poison us nor damage our sight, but no the government has banned these nasty things because THEY KNOW BEST. <_<

Is it perhaps April 1st?

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First it's those ugly flourescent bulbs poisoning us with mercury and giving us headaches when they eventually warm up, now it's LED lights damaging our eyes.

I wouldn't mind either as long as normal bulbs were an option, that neither poison us nor damage our sight, but no the government has banned these nasty things because THEY KNOW BEST. <_<

‘Eyes are not designed to look directly at light — they are designed to see with light,’ Sánchez-Ramos said.

I'll bear that in mind next time I feel like staring at a light bulb; incandescent or LED.

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I had one of those cyclist come at me again today with their full beam on. Since when did cycles even have a full beam?

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...my home is kitted out with LEDs.

Almost all of which are 'warm white' and run at c.3500K, as opposed to 'day white' versions which run at c.6500k

b69aog.jpg

In my experience, people don't feel comfortable with the 'day white' bulbs, especially at night

I would guess that the colour temperature of the LEDs being studied would have an impact on the effects described in the article. I wouldn't have to guess if the article was a tad more rigorous and better written.

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I think the point was being made about the screen you're reading this on.

So do I.

Which makes the (implied) comparison with incandescent light bulbs disingenuous.

edit: I remember my nan warning me not to watch television with the room lights turned off 40 years ago. She wasn't a research scientist or a Daily Mail copywriter but she seemed pretty sure that it would be bad for my eyes.

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...my home is kitted out with LEDs.

Almost all of which are 'warm white' and run at c.3500K, as opposed to 'day white' versions which run at c.6500k

b69aog.jpg

In my experience, people don't feel comfortable with the 'day white' bulbs, especially at night

I would guess that the colour temperature of the LEDs being studied would have an impact on the effects described in the article. I wouldn't have to guess if the article was a tad more rigorous and better written.

Theres a difference between perceived colour temperature, and actual spectral profile. Even a "warm white" LED has pronounced peaks at the blue end of the spectrum. Only incandescent bulbs (and candle flames) have black-body spectra.

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I'm not convinced about this, there is a big difference between looking directly at an unfiltered LED and using a LED light bulb that is always covered by at least one filter to correct the light spectrum it emits.

So while the study might be correct, it probably doesn't apply to commercial LED light bulbs.

LEDs in screens might be an issue though, luckily all my PC screens are old enough to still use CCFL backlight.

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Personally I'm not a fan of running screens at full brightness.

I've been a geek for 15+ years, and worked (as opposed to using for leisure) regularly with computer screens for 10 years. My eyesight is exactly as good as it's always been, which is to say, I can focus from 10cm to infinity and slightly beyond. In visual acuity terms I'm pretty average, my wife who is -4 short sighted can read a bus number from 200 yards up the road if she's got her lenses in, whereas I'm more like 150 yards. But it was ever thus, I've never had great retinas, they're not degrading. I'm 33 now, and I'm expecting to have to think about reading glasses in 10-15 years time.

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Theres a difference between perceived colour temperature, and actual spectral profile. Even a "warm white" LED has pronounced peaks at the blue end of the spectrum. Only incandescent bulbs (and candle flames) have black-body spectra.

Courtesy of a quick Google...

25gbi9l.jpg

I appreciate that LEDs do have those pronounced peaks. What I'm not so clear on is if the lower colour temperature LED bulbs have less pronounced peaks than the 'white' LEDs, or if it's entirely a case of the senses being fooled.

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edit: I remember my nan warning me not to watch television with the room lights turned off 40 years ago. She wasn't a research scientist or a Daily Mail copywriter but she seemed pretty sure that it would be bad for my eyes.

A TV of that era would've had lots of flicker. Much worse than today's screens of any kind.

There's nothing benign about incandescent light bulbs. People only tolerate the vile things because of what they're not, and perhaps because lifetime familiarity blinds them to the defects.

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First it's those ugly flourescent bulbs poisoning us with mercury and giving us headaches when they eventually warm up, now it's LED lights damaging our eyes.

I wouldn't mind either as long as normal bulbs were an option, that neither poison us nor damage our sight, but no the government has banned these nasty things because THEY KNOW BEST. <_<

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2324325/Do-environmentally-friendly-LED-lights-cause-BLINDNESS.html

You actually believe anything you read in the Fail?

I read a similar article in there the other day by a Mr Colin Dunne (or perhaps more appropriately Dunce). It was so bad I don't know where to start. He appears to be confused by the fact his solar water heating system isn't producing any electricity :lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2323564/Dont-fall-solar-panel-flannel-COLIN-DUNNE-did-realised-5-000-carbuncle-roof-save-money-lives-154.html

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I doubt the claim on damaging of eyes...

LED Lamps...

They are not great as far as efficiency when compared to contemporary fluorescents, however, improvement is incrementally continuous.

Haitz's law says these will get cheaper over time, but geo-politics and scarcity (real/engineered) will play into cost for rare earth metals.

Europium creates the red lights, is an essential part of the manufacture of white LED's.

Payback time is therefore will remain high for these.

FYI

WHITE LIGHT-EMITTING diodes (LEDs) are currently attracting significant attention because of the expectation that they will be used widely in future general lighting systems. White LEDs can be made simply by combining blue, green, and red LEDs together. However, white light produced in this manner would be unstable over time because the light output of each of the LED color components experiences different degradation rates.

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I had one of those cyclist come at me again today with their full beam on. Since when did cycles even have a full beam?

They make sense on a road. Also if doing off road stuff at night.

However i have seen a fair few using them on cycle paths. ******ing brutal if you are coming the opposite way.

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I doubt the claim on damaging of eyes...

LED Lamps...

They are not great as far as efficiency when compared to contemporary fluorescents, however, improvement is incrementally continuous.

Haitz's law says these will get cheaper over time, but geo-politics and scarcity (real/engineered) will play into cost for rare earth metals.

Europium creates the red lights, is an essential part of the manufacture of white LED's.

Payback time is therefore will remain high for these.

FYI

Actually, current best LEDs are about twice as good as CFL - as made by Cree and Nichia. Here's a great comparison chart http://www.designrecycleinc.com/led%20comp%20chart.html

Getting hold of them is a bit tricky though, I wanted to buy some Nichia219 LEDs for a boat luminaire, the only place I can get them is from Germany - cost of LED couple of Euro each, shipping about 20 Euro. :angry:. I long ago said that we would be unlikely to see these good LED's turn up in lamps we could actually use, whilst the major producers (Osram, Philips etc) had large invested interests in CFL and didn't own any of the good patents.

Europium was the rare earth used in the phosphor of colour CRTs to produce red. I doubt that the quantity used in LED's is ever going to reach the levels used in colour tellys.

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Europium was the rare earth used in the phosphor of colour CRTs to produce red. I doubt that the quantity used in LED's is ever going to reach the levels used in colour tellys.

It is used in all sorts of applications; computer screens, LED TV's, even in EURO currency to prevent counterfeiting, so I think your point is not really valid.

Just saying is all.

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Just wait until the Daily Fail realises that the 'arsenide' in Gallium Arsenide LEDs means that the gallium is 'doped' with arsenic.

'THE KILLER LIGHTS IN OUR HOMES'

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You actually believe anything you read in the Fail?

I read a similar article in there the other day by a Mr Colin Dunne (or perhaps more appropriately Dunce). It was so bad I don't know where to start. He appears to be confused by the fact his solar water heating system isn't producing any electricity :lol:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2323564/Dont-fall-solar-panel-flannel-COLIN-DUNNE-did-realised-5-000-carbuncle-roof-save-money-lives-154.html

That is drivel even by the Wail's extremely low standards.

So his roof was perfect for solar photovoltaic (insofar as that can ever be true in the UK) and he had solar thermal put up with cowboy plumbing, and wonders why the electricity bill hasn't dropped. Plus he paid 5 grand for it!

My guess is that this person doesn't exist and the entire story is made up.

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That is drivel even by the Wail's extremely low standards.

So his roof was perfect for solar photovoltaic (insofar as that can ever be true in the UK) and he had solar thermal put up with cowboy plumbing, and wonders why the electricity bill hasn't dropped. Plus he paid 5 grand for it!

My guess is that this person doesn't exist and the entire story is made up.

Fail Reader - explains all if not made up as you suggest

For 5 Grand I suspect he could have had a 2-3KW PV system which with a 21p feed in tarrif would have netted him about £567 a year.

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It is used in all sorts of applications; computer screens, LED TV's, even in EURO currency to prevent counterfeiting, so I think your point is not really valid.

Just saying is all.

Just responding, is all. I expect organic LEDs will be used in LED TV's in the near future, and I don't think Europium is used in the LCD panels themselves. Europium is used in the LEDs (or CCFL) which illuminate them, which is a tiny amount of phosphor compared to the 1/4 surface area of a shadow mask CRT.

However, it's written all over the 'net that Europium is used in the LCD. Anyone got the real tech details on LCD's?

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I'll bear that in mind next time I feel like staring at a light bulb; incandescent or LED.

I have a sneaking suspicion that any light source, with any spectral distribution, will damage your eyes, if bright enough.

Perhaps more research is needed.

Perhaps the Daily Mail is starting a subtle campaign against the Sun. Who knows.

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Just responding, is all. I expect organic LEDs will be used in LED TV's in the near future, and I don't think Europium is used in the LCD panels themselves. Europium is used in the LEDs (or CCFL) which illuminate them, which is a tiny amount of phosphor compared to the 1/4 surface area of a shadow mask CRT.

However, it's written all over the 'net that Europium is used in the LCD. Anyone got the real tech details on LCD's?

if this Europium stuff is a problem, I'm definitely voting for UKIP.

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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