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Turned Out Nice Again

Freedom Of Speech --Another Nail In The Coffin

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OK, it's a mail link,

and the victim is a lawyer,

but really?

there was no abuse; just an opinion stated.

'I cannot stand Jewish people': Lawyer almost loses her career over office rant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321362/I-stand-Jewish-people-Lawyer-loses-career-office-rant-queue-jumping-man-medical-centre.html

A female lawyer who blurted out: 'I cannot stand Jewish people' during an office rant has been left with a huge legal bill after a discrimination case was brought against her by a former colleague.

Danielle Morris, 34, was subject of a three-and-a-half year investigation in front of two legal tribunals and almost lost her career after she made the remark during an office conversation.

The mother-of-two complained a Jewish man had jumped the queue at a medical centre while she was waiting to take one of her children to see a doctor.

Later she relayed the incident in the presence of a Jewish cashier at her law practice in Rossendale, Lancashire.

After making her comment, the unnamed cashier said: 'Please do not say that' but Mrs Morris added: 'I don’t care, I cannot stand them.'

Three months after the incident in December 2009, the cashier left the law firm - then brought a racial and religious claim against Mrs Morris and the practice and won an undisclosed sum in damages.

Mrs Morris herself was then hauled before the Solicitor’s Regulation Authority after a further complaint of discrimination by the cashier.

It emerged the matter 'snowballed' despite the lawyer trying to apologise on three occasions - but the cashier refused to meet with her.

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Perhaps working in the legal field wasn't the best idea if she doesnt like being around Jews, when i did jury service i thought id got the wrong building and arrived at a bar mitvah. Ba-boom.

Point taken though, no threats or slander were issued. She said nothing 'illegal'. George Galloway seems to get away with it though. She probably needs to align herself with a jihadi peace group or somesuch.

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Guest eight

Perhaps working in the legal field wasn't the best idea if she doesnt like being around Jews, when i did jury service i thought id got the wrong building and arrived at a bar mitvah. Ba-boom.

Point taken though, no threats or slander were issued. She said nothing 'illegal'. George Galloway seems to get away with it though. She probably needs to align herself with a jihadi peace group or somesuch.

Erranta has gone quiet again.

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and the victim is a lawyer,

Poetic justice in spades!

George Galloway seems to get away with it though.

Really? What has he said that's comparable. Pointers to quotes please, not paraphrases.

(On balance of probabilities, I don't think it's Galloway's style, leading me to suspect someone might have been spinning. But then, I know very little about him).

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Perhaps working in the legal field wasn't the best idea if she doesnt like being around Jews, when i did jury service i thought id got the wrong building and arrived at a bar mitvah. Ba-boom.

:lol::lol:

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There is a kind of serious point to be made here that I can't imagine anyone taking this seriously if she'd have said "I cannot stand Roman Catholic people", or any other religion really.

And surely it's just an opinion, not defamatory or discriminatory. And also said in the heat of the moment, so arguably not actually representative of her actual attitudes towards other Jewish people that she might happen to work with, for example.

Don't really understand what the legal basis for this case might have been, but it seems intuitively wrong to me...

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OK, it's a mail link,

and the victim is a lawyer,

but really?

there was no abuse; just an opinion stated.

'I cannot stand Jewish people': Lawyer almost loses her career over office rant

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2321362/I-stand-Jewish-people-Lawyer-loses-career-office-rant-queue-jumping-man-medical-centre.html

A female lawyer who blurted out: 'I cannot stand Jewish people' during an office rant has been left with a huge legal bill after a discrimination case was brought against her by a former colleague.

Danielle Morris, 34, was subject of a three-and-a-half year investigation in front of two legal tribunals and almost lost her career after she made the remark during an office conversation.

The mother-of-two complained a Jewish man had jumped the queue at a medical centre while she was waiting to take one of her children to see a doctor.

Later she relayed the incident in the presence of a Jewish cashier at her law practice in Rossendale, Lancashire.

After making her comment, the unnamed cashier said: 'Please do not say that' but Mrs Morris added: 'I don’t care, I cannot stand them.'

Three months after the incident in December 2009, the cashier left the law firm - then brought a racial and religious claim against Mrs Morris and the practice and won an undisclosed sum in damages.

Mrs Morris herself was then hauled before the Solicitor’s Regulation Authority after a further complaint of discrimination by the cashier.

It emerged the matter 'snowballed' despite the lawyer trying to apologise on three occasions - but the cashier refused to meet with her.

Well, I don't know about anybody else, but I would find this offensive if I heard anyone say it in public. Or even in private, come to that.

And I am not Jewish.

Especially if the woman's a lawyer she should have known better, FGS. I have no sympathy for her.

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Guest eight

Well, I don't know about anybody else, but I would find this offensive if I heard anyone say it in public. Or even in private, come to that.

And I am not Jewish.

Especially if the woman's a lawyer she should have known better, FGS. I have no sympathy for her.

I find all religions pretty much equally offensive to be honest.

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Well, I don't know about anybody else, but I would find this offensive if I heard anyone say it in public.

It's offensive but the reaction is out of all proportion. A sincere apology should have been enough, but these days some people like to milk everything for as much as they can and unfortunately the courts encourage this behaviour.

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It's offensive but the reaction is out of all proportion. A sincere apology should have been enough, but these days some people like to milk everything for as much as they can and unfortunately the courts encourage this behaviour.

Note, she didn't apologise in the first instance, only when in trouble.

She deserves it, just as a black who says the same about whites IMHO.

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Well, I don't know about anybody else, but I would find this offensive if I heard anyone say it in public. Or even in private, come to that.

And I am not Jewish.

Yes, it is offensive. But as far as I'm aware being offensive isn't sufficient for a legal case. So it becomes a question of who must be protected from being offended, and at what cost?. Race and religion are touchy subjects, understandably. But free speech is also something that must be protected, in my humble opinion at least. What feels wrong about this is that she wasn't directing this at anyone in particular, it was simply expression of an opinion (based on a specific experience that had wound her up). Even if she is a racist (religionist?), should expressing such an opinion in public be made illegal, or cause for being sued for damages, in absence of any tangible defamation or discrimination of a specific individual? I don't see how it can be...

It's political correctness gone mad, I tell yer! ;)

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Nothing wrong with this at all. It's just an opinion. That fact that it is offensive is neither here nor there. It's not a crime to be offensive.

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Guest eight

Nothing wrong with this at all. It's just an opinion. That fact that it is offensive is neither here nor there. It's not a crime to be offensive.

The thing I really don't understand is why religious types seek recourse to earthly retribution against these perceived slights. Surely whatever entity it is they believe in can be trusted to deal with the wrongdoers in the fullness of all eternity. Can't it?

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I find all religions pretty much equally offensive to be honest.

A complicating issue here is, I think, the conflation between the religion and the 'race' (as illustrated by this thread)

If someone were to express a dislike for Judaism and people who choose to follow Judaism that is not the same thing as expressing a dislike for people who consider themselves to be ethnically Jewish.

It's particularly knotty wrt Judaism because there's a racial element to the religion.

Presumably, the woman in this case got burned because of the perceived racial rather than religious slur.

In a similar vein, plenty of people currently get by slagging off Pakistanis by swapping the word 'Pakistani' for 'Muslim'. As long as you can maintain that you're slagging off the religion rather than the race, away you go.

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The tribunal was told she had modest means and lived in a house worth £105,000 with equity of just £30,000.

Lol. In typical DM fashion they turn some silly story about racist slurs into a house price story!

Fabulous writers there, playing three card monte with your subconsciousness.

Anything to keep the dinner table conversations revolving around some prat's equity.

Quality.

However, I think the OP might upsetting IRRO for usurping the right to post crap DM stories in the OT forum.

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It's not a crime to be offensive.

Which is why she wasnt arrested, tried, or imprisoned. It nothing to do with freedom of speach, its to do with appropriate behaviour in the workplace.

This thread is fail.

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I wonder how much hoo-hah there would be if a Jew said "I can't stand Arabs".

Careful Harry. Don't overthink this. Just accept that there are certain groups of people with hair-trigger sensibilities who mustn't be offended. Feminists for a start. I won't mention others, er, for fear of offending them. Hmm. Never, never, mention you're about to fork someones repo in front of one at work, you might lose your job (Google donglegate).

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I grew up in an era when it was common for people to refer openly to wogs/P*kis/nignogs etc. and it was often derogatory, contemptuous or venomous. Though to be fair to my folks, who grew up in an even more openly racist era, I never heard any of this at home.

Much as I dislike any assault on free speech I would not want to go back to the way we were. There are plenty of people who need absolutely no encouragement to hate or despise entire swathes of people purely because of their race or religion. It's bad enough for children to hear such things at home (as I'm sure plenty still do) without being able to hear them openly spoken in public.

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I grew up in an era when it was common for people to refer openly to wogs/P*kis/nignogs etc. and it was often derogatory, contemptuous or venomous. Though to be fair to my folks, who grew up in an even more openly racist era, I never heard any of this at home.

Much as I dislike any assault on free speech I would not want to go back to the way we were. There are plenty of people who need absolutely no encouragement to hate or despise entire swathes of people purely because of their race or religion. It's bad enough for children to hear such things at home (as I'm sure plenty still do) without being able to hear them openly spoken in public.

Broadly speaking, your ethnicity is something you can't choose.

Religion, same as any other belief or opinion, is something you are free to adopt or reject.

In the context of the OP, I wouldn't consider abusing someone because they were born Jewish to be fair game at all.

However, some supremacist strains of the Jewish religion, or Zionism, are more than deserving of a right kicking impo. Same as the militant, Golden Rule-busting, incarnations of Christianity, Islam or Secular Humanism.

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Broadly speaking, your ethnicity is something you can't choose.

Religion, same as any other belief or opinion, is something you are free to adopt or reject.

In the context of the OP, I wouldn't consider abusing someone because they were born Jewish to be fair game at all.

However, some supremacist strains of the Jewish religion, or Zionism, are more than deserving of a right kicking impo. Same as the militant, Golden Rule-busting, incarnations of Christianity, Islam or Secular Humanism.

Personally I find some aspects of virtually any religion unpleasant or distasteful, because to me they're barmy/deluded, and/or or they encourage adherents to hate or despise anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

But to me that's never an excuse for slagging off or hating any entire group. I can't say (for example) that I find all aspects of Islam cosy and cuddly, but I have also known many extremely kind, pleasant and reasonable Muslims. And the same would go for any other group.

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But to me that's never an excuse for slagging off or hating any entire group. I can't say (for example) that I find all aspects of Islam cosy and cuddly, but I have also known many extremely kind, pleasant and reasonable Muslims. And the same would go for any other group.

If that group holds a belief which tells them they have a right to impose their will on others they can take a running jump afaic.

I wouldn't hold a prejudice against all Muslims or Jews. Like you imply, within such broad categories there are individuals and sects who do not concern themselves with getting in other people's faces. However, there are sects within the broader groupings which hold militant, aggressive beliefs which people choose to be part of. Those sects and individuals are 100% fair game afaic.

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If that group holds a belief which tells them they have a right to impose their will on others they can take a running jump afaic.

Can you take a running jump and end up in the missionary position? ;)

IGMC

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Personally I find some aspects of virtually any religion unpleasant or distasteful, because to me they're barmy/deluded, and/or or they encourage adherents to hate or despise anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

But to me that's never an excuse for slagging off or hating any entire group. I can't say (for example) that I find all aspects of Islam cosy and cuddly, but I have also known many extremely kind, pleasant and reasonable Muslims. And the same would go for any other group.

the point is that she didn't slag off or hate anybody. she even used the polite noun: "Jewish People",

.. but she said "she couldn't stand them".

there was also no apparent discrimination against , nor personal remarks made to the receptionist.

she generalized about a group. if she'd said she loved Jewish People, would that have been a problem?

the message is that generalizing about *certain* groups in what might be perceived as a *negative* way by a member of one of the groups is actionable.

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  • 244 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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