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The Ayatollah Buggeri

Will A Sodomised Front Foglight Cause An M O T Failure?

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A question for the HPC petrolhead collective.

Car is up for an MoT at the end of the month - 2001 Fiesta with 93k miles on the clock. I'm emigrating to the US in July and therefore I'm purely interested in getting it through the MOT so that I can get, say, £300-500 for it before leaving (the car is otherwise in a very good state, including a full service history, an aftermarket DAB radio fitted and tyres that have another 15-20k miles left on them).

The front nearside foglight is smashed, the result, I suspect, of a design fault. Its predecessor smashed a couple of years ago, and I replaced it with a £20 one from Ebay. Six months later that one smashed too, probably by a stone kicked up from the roadside. I have had this car since August 2007 and have never once needed to use the foglights, and so I decided to just leave it - no point in spending money on a feature I don't need or want. It passed last year's MOT with the smashed light, but the garage mentioned that strict new MOT rules were coming in for this year and that he wasn't sure, but that the smashed foglight might cause it to fail.

Can anyone tell me for definite if that's the case? No tragedy if it I need to replace the damn thing again, but cheapskate that I am, I'm not inclined to spend that £20 if I don't have to.

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Front fogs are optional, and not part of the test. If there is sharp glass poking out, they could fail you on that.

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Perhaps just scrap it if you only might get £300 for it. Scrap yard should pay £150-200, and even assuming nothing is wrong on the MOT, thats still £50, plus advertising it, etc.

(unless you need it during June)

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The guy last year told me that he thought an 'if it's fitted it has to work' rule was going to come in and apply to everything, but he wasn't sure. When I've got a little time this evening I'll have a hunt around on the DVLA's website and see if I can find anything definitive.

Yes, I will need the car during June - taking stuff to the tip, that I'm giving to relatives that I'm not having shipped, etc. etc., not to mention normal commuting: I'm at work until two days before I actually leave the country. I'm already asking around colleagues, friends and relatives if anyone would be interested, and intend to put an ad in the local paper with about 10 days to go if no-one bites. If that doesn't do the trick, then yes, it's scrapper time. It would be a pity - I reckon that the thing has a good 1-2 years left in it before major work would need doing.

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Guest eight

Got any council MOT test stations near you? I'm sure it's be mentioned here before that they just do the test, not repairs, so have no VI in fixing anything.

But you can't drive around in a car with a failed MOT here as is I believe the case in other European countries?

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But you can't drive around in a car with a failed MOT here as is I believe the case in other European countries?

You can if you're driving to have the car repaired.

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Many thanks folks. I think I'll just take it for the test, and if he fails it on the foglight, replace it myself and take the car back. I've been going to this garage for the last five years, and they've never tried to rip me off in the past, and so I think I'm safe on that score.

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Many thanks folks. I think I'll just take it for the test, and if he fails it on the foglight, replace it myself and take the car back. I've been going to this garage for the last five years, and they've never tried to rip me off in the past, and so I think I'm safe on that score.

Can't you ask them to make the necessary adjustments to get it through first time? That's how my garage works.

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But you can't drive around in a car with a failed MOT here as is I believe the case in other European countries?

This is why you can have the car tested up to one month before the expiration of the MOT certificate.

I get mine done at the council depo on the first available slot, if it fails I then have a month to fix and get it retested. If it passes first time, my new MOT is 12months from the date my old one expired (so 13months from when I have the test assuming I get it tested on the first available day allowed by my existing certificate).

If you get it done a day before or on the day then you are boned, and can only drive the car to/from an MOT appointment.

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Guest eight

This is why you can have the car tested up to one month before the expiration of the MOT certificate.

I get mine done at the council depo on the first available slot, if it fails I then have a month to fix and get it retested. If it passes first time, my new MOT is 12months from the date my old one expired (so 13months from when I have the test assuming I get it tested on the first available day allowed by my existing certificate).

If you get it done a day before or on the day then you are boned, and can only drive the car to/from an MOT appointment.

Are you positive that's correct? I had a suspicion that under the computerised system the "fail" would automatically negate the previously valid certificate even if it did have time remaining on it?

I'm with the poster who said just give it to the garage and ask them to give it back with a valid MOT. Does mean I've had to wear some hefty bills but nobody said motoring is supposed to be free.

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Are you positive that's correct? I had a suspicion that under the computerised system the "fail" would automatically negate the previously valid certificate even if it did have time remaining on it?

I'm with the poster who said just give it to the garage and ask them to give it back with a valid MOT. Does mean I've had to wear some hefty bills but nobody said motoring is supposed to be free.

http://www.confused.com/news-views/blogs/can-you-drive-your-car-if-it-has-failed-mot

Seems its a grey area. If I'd failed on something major (eg. brakes not working!) I'd not be driving around, I'd fix it asap. But then I'd never get to that point as I'd have found it in my pre-MOT checkup that I do. If it were bush wear, a split seal? I'd be driving it while waiting to have the time to replace the offending parts.

My last MOT was failed on pad wear (which after taking the pads off I'd dispute, but they would have needed doing a few months down the line anyway) and 2 bulbs (my car blew three in the 2 days between my pre-MOT checkup and the MOT).

I guess its the "roadworthy" part that means this is up for debate...

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Are you positive that's correct? I had a suspicion that under the computerised system the "fail" would automatically negate the previously valid certificate even if it did have time remaining on it?

I'm with the poster who said just give it to the garage and ask them to give it back with a valid MOT. Does mean I've had to wear some hefty bills but nobody said motoring is supposed to be free.

Seems it's a 'Yes' with a but, or a 'No' with an if. The failed MOT means the car has a basic fault with its roadworthiness but the current MOT is still valid, if that makes sense. So if the MOT failure said that the beam aim was way off, for example, while you still have a current MOT you could be stopped and be taken to task for the state of the lights regardless. It seems a bit inconsistent but it makes some sort of sense to me. The MOT certifies a car's roadworthiness on a particular day, and the expiry date is not some guarantee of that, just when it needs retesting. The brakes could fail soon after the MOT but having a valid certificate would offer no defence against driving a car which was obviously not roadworthy.

I presume insurance would not pay out if a car which has a valid portion of MOT remaining, but just failed an MOT, was involved in an accident without having the fault(s) which caused it to fail the MOT rectified.

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/after-the-test

If your vehicle fails the test

You’ll get a ‘notification of failure’ from the test centre if your vehicle fails the test. The failure will be recorded in the secure central MOT database.

Until it passes a retest, you can only drive your vehicle:

to a pre-arranged appointment at a garage to have the repairs done

to a pre-arranged MOT test appointment

Your vehicle should be retested at the same test centre which did the original test.

A VOSA spokesperson confirms: “Should you present your vehicle early and the vehicle fails the test, your original certificate still remains valid until its expiry date.

"But this does not mean that you are entitled to continue to use a defective vehicle.

“However, once the defects are repaired you can continue to use the vehicle until either it is retested or the original test certificate expires.

"Remember a current test certificate does not allow continued use of a defective vehicle on a public road.”

Read more: http://www.confused.com/news-views/blogs/can-you-drive-your-car-if-it-has-failed-mot#ixzz2TAMg3OOm

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Can't you ask them to make the necessary adjustments to get it through first time? That's how my garage works.

I could, but they would probably charge three times what I'd pay to buy a foglight on Ebay and fit it myself.

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I could, but they would probably charge three times what I'd pay to buy a foglight on Ebay and fit it myself.

For the sake of £20 you might as well just replace it to allay concerns, as annoying as it is to have expense for no good reason. £20 delivered(apologies if wrong type):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Fiesta-MK5-front-foglight-n-s-passenger-side-/171016448472?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27d15fe9d8

I would also be keen to get an update on your 'pence per mile' data if you still keep it!

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That's the one alright. You're probably right: in the context of the overall cost of the UK to US move (it will come in at between £3-4k once all is said and done), this is bugger all. Just annoying to have to spend it on something that neither I nor the next owner of the car (assuming it's not a scrapyard) will ever use. Oh well.

As of the last fill-up, the figures are as follows, over 65,676 miles covered since I bought the car on 3 August 2007:

Petrol = 6,363.04 litres, total £7.302.68, = 10.32 miles per litre or 46.92 per (British) gallon. Petrol cost = 11p a mile.

Service and repairs (excluding MOT fee) = £2,221.90, or 3p a mile. That figure is slightly misleading, because for the last 4 years it's had an annual full service on Tesco Clubcard point (i.e. free). If I'd had to pay for those services, the overall figure would be in the region of £3k.

"Annual round of bills" (i.e. insurance, road tax, MOT fees, RAC membership and workplace parking permit) = £2,304.26, or 8p a mile. Again, the RAC membership has been on Tesco points and so that figure would have been higher otherwise.

Depreciation (cost of ownership) = I paid £2,835 for the car: assuming it depreciates to nothing (i.e. I end up having to give it away), that's 4p a mile.

Total running cost = 26p a mile.

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That's the one alright. You're probably right: in the context of the overall cost of the UK to US move (it will come in at between £3-4k once all is said and done), this is bugger all. Just annoying to have to spend it on something that neither I nor the next owner of the car (assuming it's not a scrapyard) will ever use. Oh well.

As of the last fill-up, the figures are as follows, over 65,676 miles covered since I bought the car on 3 August 2007:

Petrol = 6,363.04 litres, total £7.302.68, = 10.32 miles per litre or 46.92 per (British) gallon. Petrol cost = 11p a mile.

Service and repairs (excluding MOT fee) = £2,221.90, or 3p a mile. That figure is slightly misleading, because for the last 4 years it's had an annual full service on Tesco Clubcard point (i.e. free). If I'd had to pay for those services, the overall figure would be in the region of £3k.

"Annual round of bills" (i.e. insurance, road tax, MOT fees, RAC membership and workplace parking permit) = £2,304.26, or 8p a mile. Again, the RAC membership has been on Tesco points and so that figure would have been higher otherwise.

Depreciation (cost of ownership) = I paid £2,835 for the car: assuming it depreciates to nothing (i.e. I end up having to give it away), that's 4p a mile.

Total running cost = 26p a mile.

Nice one, cheers! Yes, there would be some irony in buying the replacement foglight only for it to appear back on Ebay if you scrapped it.

Amazing how costs can converge- I appreciate the Tesco servicing, but here's my wife's car stats, where I do the work. Practically a carbon copy of yours:

Bought April 2008 for £1,600, 1.3 petrol Corolla, now done 44.1k miles since then. 44mpg average (4497 litres)

Costs/mile p

fuel 12.88 (strictly premium)

maintenance 3.16 (includes servicing, repairs, MOT fees etc)

tax/insurance 5.15

purchase 3.63 (depreciation to zero as with your example)

TOTAL 24.82

She's not allowed to get rid until the depreciation to zero is under a penny/mile...

All the best with the move btw!

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Nice one, cheers! Yes, there would be some irony in buying the replacement foglight only for it to appear back on Ebay if you scrapped it.

Amazing how costs can converge- I appreciate the Tesco servicing, but here's my wife's car stats, where I do the work. Practically a carbon copy of yours:

Bought April 2008 for £1,600, 1.3 petrol Corolla, now done 44.1k miles since then. 44mpg average (4497 litres)

Costs/mile p

fuel 12.88 (strictly premium)

maintenance 3.16 (includes servicing, repairs, MOT fees etc)

tax/insurance 5.15

purchase 3.63 (depreciation to zero as with your example)

TOTAL 24.82

She's not allowed to get rid until the depreciation to zero is under a penny/mile...

All the best with the move btw!

Just done similar calculations for mine, I'm actually quite surprised how close I've come to your figures over 2 years/20000miles of ownership. Something I've missed given a higher purchase price? I don't have accurate records so I've made some assumptions that won't be too far off:

Depreciation: I've depreciated to £0 (car will be 11) over 5 years from an original purchase price of £3600, evenly weighted. (£1440)

Fuel: 500 miles per tank at £60 a tank. (£2400)

Maintenance: £840 including a set of winter tyres and roof bars (Actual costs... I self service and repair where possible, its been to the garage for a set of front springs which were £110 - secret handshake deal.)

Insurance: £700 (my first year was cheap as I was in rural wales)

Tax: £240

Pence/Mile (20000 miles):

Fuel: 12p

Maint: 4.20p

Depreciation: 7.2p

Insurance: 3.5p

Tax: 1.2p

Total: 28p

I wish I'd been keeping more accurate expenses claims throughout my 2 years of ownership, as that would bring down my personal cost per mile considerably.

Edit: just notice you have depreciated to £0 over your ownership rather than an estimated ownership/lifespan. I think the depreciation puts mine in the right ball park if I were to sell it now, if it went tomorrow with nothing to show I'd be at 39ppm.

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Amazing how costs can converge- I appreciate the Tesco servicing, but here's my wife's car stats, where I do the work. Practically a carbon copy of yours:

For the last few years my drill has been that it gets a Nationwide Autocentre service on Tesco points in the summer, and I give it an oil and filter change myself at around Christmas time. About the only repairs excluding scheduled maintenance that it's needed were a complete set of new tyres in December 2009 (I splashed out on top of the range Michelin ones at £390 for the set, as the weather was icy at the time and you don't f*** around with cheap tyres on North Yorkshire country roads in the depths of winter - plus it turned out to be a good call, because 3.5 years later, they've all still got a good 5mm left on them), replacement front pads and discs that I fitted myself in May 2010, and rear shoes that Nationwide fitted at that year's MOT - looked complicated enough in the Haynes manual that I was willing to pay them to do it to avoid the hassle. The current state of play is that the car has 10k miles to go until it needs a new cambelt, which will probably make it a bit more difficult to flog. Still, the good thing about running an old car that has almost depreciated to nothing is that in a situation such as the one I'm in now, there is very little to lose - the worst case scenario is giving it to a scrapper to take off my hands, and even then owning the thing will only have cost me 4p a mile.

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Guest eight

For the last few years my drill has been that it gets a Nationwide Autocentre service on Tesco points in the summer, and I give it an oil and filter change myself at around Christmas time. About the only repairs excluding scheduled maintenance that it's needed were a complete set of new tyres in December 2009 (I splashed out on top of the range Michelin ones at £390 for the set, as the weather was icy at the time and you don't f*** around with cheap tyres on North Yorkshire country roads in the depths of winter - plus it turned out to be a good call, because 3.5 years later, they've all still got a good 5mm left on them), replacement front pads and discs that I fitted myself in May 2010, and rear shoes that Nationwide fitted at that year's MOT - looked complicated enough in the Haynes manual that I was willing to pay them to do it to avoid the hassle. The current state of play is that the car has 10k miles to go until it needs a new cambelt, which will probably make it a bit more difficult to flog. Still, the good thing about running an old car that has almost depreciated to nothing is that in a situation such as the one I'm in now, there is very little to lose - the worst case scenario is giving it to a scrapper to take off my hands, and even then owning the thing will only have cost me 4p a mile.

Interesting - I will also happily do disks, but not drums. I will work out the cost breakdown on ours later; I have the headline figures, over the first 1000 days of ownership, of about £8500 all in at 34p per mile, seems high but for the first two years we had it it barely went anywhere. Now with the school run twice a day the per mile costs are dropping nicely.

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A Mk5 Fiesta with four decent tyres, a DAB radio, and 12 months ticket will be worth £500 all day long. If it's got a decent engine (I.E. anything other than the 1.3 Kent/Valencia) then I'd say more like £700.

I don't need another small car, but if you're having trouble getting shot in a small space of time give me a shout, I'll take a punt at being able to move it on for a small profit! :lol:

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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