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Guest eight

Cleveland Police

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Guest eight

Third world policing in a Western country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22452157

I never thought it would be possible for me to feel sympathy for a solicitor in receipt of a £500,000 payout, but I actually find this to be one of the most chilling stories I've read in recent times, particularly as it happened almost on my doorstep.

Are there any honest policemen out there? I'm beginning to think not. I'd give those responsible for this latest aberration ten thousand years in prison and not bat an eyelid, frankly.

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Are there any honest policemen out there? I'm beginning to think not. I'd give those responsible for this latest aberration ten thousand years in prison and not bat an eyelid, frankly.

Well yes, probably, but you will almost never ever read a story about them. The media loves stories about bad police. On the other hand story about how plod diligently investigated a pickpocketing, or calmed down a domestic shouting and door slamming match, well, they dont make good headlines.

Its a form of confirmation bias.

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Well yes, probably, but you will almost never ever read a story about them. The media loves stories about bad police. On the other hand story about how plod diligently investigated a pickpocketing, or calmed down a domestic shouting and door slamming match, well, they dont make good headlines.

Its a form of confirmation bias.

True, and very unfortunate. But when an individual or small group behaves disgracefully and the institution defends them, lies about it, and allows there to be no repercussions, then the institution deserves to share the criticism. The majority of good and honest employees (officers) are tarred with that brush not because of press bias but because their employer does not isolate the wrong doing from them.

The same happens in councils, in banking, in parliament, in hospitals and NHS trusts.

Public sector senior managers deciding the fate of miscreant fellow senior managers will never be trusted.

Y

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Third world policing in a Western country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22452157

I never thought it would be possible for me to feel sympathy for a solicitor in receipt of a £500,000 payout, but I actually find this to be one of the most chilling stories I've read in recent times, particularly as it happened almost on my doorstep.

Are there any honest policemen out there? I'm beginning to think not. I'd give those responsible for this latest aberration ten thousand years in prison and not bat an eyelid, frankly.

It's a solicitor. Someone paid a lot better than the police to get the outcome the best money can buy. He must be either an accomplice in serious crime or a loser who spends his life on mundane issues like conveyancing.

But he knows how to spin a good story and get a good press. That may (or may not) be exactly what this story really is: a case where the police acted in good faith but got outmanoeuvred and stitched up. Plod shall know his place and not take on his betters!

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It's a solicitor. Someone paid a lot better than the police to get the outcome the best money can buy. He must be either an accomplice in serious crime or a loser who spends his life on mundane issues like conveyancing.

But he knows how to spin a good story and get a good press. That may (or may not) be exactly what this story really is: a case where the police acted in good faith but got outmanoeuvred and stitched up. Plod shall know his place and not take on his betters!

That's right. When the police decide that someone is guilty then they clearly are, and anyone who defends that person must also be guilty. Defence lawyers get in the way of banging people up and should therefore also be banged up. We could save a lot of money by just not having trials. The poor policeman who lied to the judge and innocently forgot to take any notes or record any interviews was just doing his job in good faith.

Y

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I know quite a few coppers. The stories of protecting eachother and general weirdness/stupidity of fellow colleagues is alarming.

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Guest eight

I know quite a few coppers. The stories of protecting eachother and general weirdness/stupidity of fellow colleagues is alarming.

That is what I suspect and fear to be true. I also wonder about the makeup of somebody who would seek to be a policeman anyway, I think they are saying something about themselves that I'd rather not know about, frankly.

To porca, I did say in my OP that I wasn't in the habit of sympathising with solicitors - we've all seen The Wire, after all - but what went on this case was shocking, and I'm very infrequently shocked, these days. It worries me particularly that we are only hearing about this because the chap in question had the means and wherewithal to seek recompense - lesser mortals are more likely to have been taken out back and given a good kicking.

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Yes, policemen do cover up each others misbehaviours - sometimes. Not always - I have seen a number of bent coppers turned in by others. But I have less faith in your average plod than in well off defence lawyers who have made their fortunes defending serious criminals - I have seen instances of them acting in a criminal manner to protect their bank account funders, up to and including lying, turning a blind eye, and concealing stuff that their legal profession is supposed to force them not to do.

On this case, I don't know anything to state who was right and who was wrong about the underlying reality. I would hazard a guess that some coppers had the view that this was a bent lawyer, and it all snowballed from there.

Don't forget that a rich defence lawyer used by criminals is used because he gets the guilty off and does their bidding, not because he is there to serve the court - whatever lawyers may claim.

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I thought this was going to be on the american cleveland.

I wonder if the new elected commissioners will put a stop to this. Given i suppose they have elected sheriff in the US, possibly not..

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On this case, I don't know anything to state who was right and who was wrong about the underlying reality. I would hazard a guess that some coppers had the view that this was a bent lawyer, and it all snowballed from there.

Exactly.

You know you're in serious trouble if you mess with a lawyer, so they must've had a pretty strong belief in the case against him to take that risk.

Don't forget that a rich defence lawyer used by criminals is used because he gets the guilty off and does their bidding, not because he is there to serve the court - whatever lawyers may claim.

Do you mean "serve justice" when you say "serve the court"? The court comprises career lawyers who have shown themselves to have 'sound judgement' and be 'the right sort', meaning they have long since abandoned any ideals of justice they may once have had when they first became law students.

The court itself is the final arbiter of innocent until proven broke if you have the misfortune to be convicted by some errant jury. Think Hoogstraaten, who had to go to appeal without the encumbrance of a jury to establish his innocence.

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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