The London Bubble

[gimble]

Maybe, but I think we have just got used to this type of thing now. Incidents like the Woolwich one push the boundaries each time they happen, but we are living in a world where a lot of the gang killings don't even make the LOCAL news any more.

For example, someone was actually shot in the head in Penge a week or so ago and it wasn't even on the BBC London News. It just isn't considered newsworthy any more. Granted if it had happened in Knightsbridge it probably would have got on there, but if it happened a second time it wouldn't have done.

The real groundbreaking ones are reported in detail - Woolwich this week, the killing in broad daylight on Oxford Street a few years ago, the kids in rural Kent etc but when a similar incident happens again it seems to be dismissed as old news.

It seems strange compared to 20-30 years ago where most murders of this type would make the full national news and now they don't make the local report.

Can't find a link but IIRC annual murders in London has been dropping for 10 years and is now lowest since late 70s. Despite media freak-outs about gang murders (or not as the case may be), London is a pretty safe place (at least in terms of one's risk of murder) and actually very safe as far as large cities go. Compare to any big US city..

ah - here you go:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-rate-hits-42yearlow-in-london-8462974.html

[Dorkins]

Can't find a link but IIRC annual murders in London has been dropping for 10 years and is now lowest since late 70s. Despite media freak-outs about gang murders (or not as the case may be), London is a pretty safe place (at least in terms of one's risk of murder) and actually very safe as far as large cities go. Compare to any big US city..

ah - here you go:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-rate-hits-42yearlow-in-london-8462974.html

I wonder how much of this is due to people spending more time indoors now than in the past. Same as road traffic accidents.

[wherebee]

Can't find a link but IIRC annual murders in London has been dropping for 10 years and is now lowest since late 70s. Despite media freak-outs about gang murders (or not as the case may be), London is a pretty safe place (at least in terms of one's risk of murder) and actually very safe as far as large cities go. Compare to any big US city..

ah - here you go:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-rate-hits-42yearlow-in-london-8462974.html

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

[57percent]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

Because of the press and 24hr news.

London is way safer than it was 20-30 years ago.

Some bad areas are now good. Some really bad areas are no longer no-go. Can't remember the last time I knew someone who got mugged or burgled. Used to be a very regular occurrence.

[eric pebble]

Or will people realise that London is now a third-world cesspit that no one in their right mind would want to live in?

+1,000,000

Well said that man!!!!

Londistan is - without doubt - one of the most over-rated & ludicrously expensive cesspits on the planet!!!

Edited May 24, 2013 by eric pebble

[gimble]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

perhaps London/Britain's hysterical media has affected you. I've lived in various parts of London for 20 years. Very, very rarely felt slightly afraid or threatened when out and about. It's a state of mind, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

[gimble]

I wonder how much of this is due to people spending more time indoors now than in the past. Same as road traffic accidents.

Most murders are 'domestic' (see link). In which case you'd have thought the murder rate would have gone UP, not down, if people were staying at home more.

;-)

Edited May 24, 2013 by gimble

[gimble]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

I had a German friend who lived in one of the nicer West London suburbs. She was afraid to walk home from the tube station when it wasn't daylight. I told her she was being irrational, she lived in a phenomenally safe part of the world. She said 'you don't understand, I am German. Germany is a much safer country than England'. I had to show her murder stats on the internat which , at the time, actually showed that Germany had a slightly higher overall murder rate than the UK. (I know, I know, dinner parties at my place are delightful) She admitted that reading 'The Metro' on the way to work every day was probably why she had got this idea of London being more Baghdad than Berlin.

[CentrinoDuo]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

London is safe. I did get mugged a few years back in a rougher part of town but even after that experience I still feel safe walking around London in the evening around where I live.

Yes of course you need to be street smart and watch your surroundings but this is the case with every big city on the world.

I have travelled far lived in four cities around the world and plus one month stint in NY. London to me is still one of the best and the most exiting cities to live.

For English speaking world London is the pinnacle of our civilisation, the only other equivalent of London would be New York City.

I don't think London is a cesspit, I've seen many of those and I certainly don't live in one.

I can go on about how great London is but I'm sure I won't be able to change many views expressed in this forum. Seems like people have made their mind about London even if some have never lived here.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

London is safe. I did get mugged a few years back in a rougher part of town but even after that experience I still feel safe walking around London in the evening around where I live.

Yes of course you need to be street smart and watch your surroundings but this is the case with every big city on the world.

I have travelled far lived in four cities around the world and plus one month stint in NY. London to me is still one of the best and the most exiting cities to live.

For English speaking world London is the pinnacle of our civilisation, the only other equivalent of London would be New York City.

I don't think London is a cesspit, I've seen many of those and I certainly don't live in one.

I can go on about how great London is but I'm sure I won't be able to change many views expressed in this forum. Seems like people have made their mind about London even if some have never lived here.

Don't get me started on the wife's insistence that she gets a cab back home at 11pm walking home for 5 minutes with a friend through one of the safest parts of London.

London's a big place. Some bits of it really are nasty. But nowhere near as bad as most crappy villages in Britain.

[winkie]

Can't find a link but IIRC annual murders in London has been dropping for 10 years and is now lowest since late 70s. Despite media freak-outs about gang murders (or not as the case may be), London is a pretty safe place (at least in terms of one's risk of murder) and actually very safe as far as large cities go. Compare to any big US city..

ah - here you go:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-rate-hits-42yearlow-in-london-8462974.html

A a kid we used to leave the side window open and put our hand in to open the front door latch...never carried keys.......same with the car, didn't ever lock any of the doors when leaving the car parked....never got burgled or got any car nicked or stuff stolen......

[tomandlu]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

Because you're old and wrong?

[winkie]

Interesting stats. Why then do I feel much more threatened in London now than 20 years ago?

I have never felt personally threatened in London......there are always plenty of other people around, I have never felt threatened anywhere that I have lived.......saying that I have seen plenty of petty crime in London like shoplifting, pickpocketing, atm crime, domestic fights and arguments and fighting and drunken brawls on streets and in pubs and clubs.

Edited May 24, 2013 by winkie

[Take Me Back To London!]

+1,000,000

Well said that man!!!!

Londistan is - without doubt - one of the most over-rated & ludicrously expensive cesspits on the planet!!!

I second that.

[blackgoose]

For English speaking world London is the pinnacle of our civilisation, the only other equivalent of London would be New York City.

Talk about being over rated. I recently went to London for the first time in a while, and had heard lots of comments such as this, and events such as the olympics hyping it up, so I had high expectations. I then walked around central London, and was amazed at how grotty it seemed. The shops seemed tatty, the roads busy, and definitely more foreign chavs than the foreign millionaires that are driving up house prices. Compared to some European capitals, I was underwhelmed.

[CentrinoDuo]

Talk about being over rated. I recently went to London for the first time in a while, and had heard lots of comments such as this, and events such as the olympics hyping it up, so I had high expectations. I then walked around central London, and was amazed at how grotty it seemed. The shops seemed tatty, the roads busy, and definitely more foreign chavs than the foreign millionaires that are driving up house prices. Compared to some European capitals, I was underwhelmed.

The greatness of London is not in her architecture, although we have tons of amazing buildings as well, but what make London great is her vibe and pulse.

Where else can you go for a great musical or a play on a whim on Saturday afternoon? The amount of concerts & gigs in London from big names to the up & coming bands in Camden & Islington. You have endless place to go out from West End, Clapham, Camden, Angel & Islington and many others. Where else you'd find all the above and can still go to a great curry down in Whitechapel?

Feeling artsy on Sunday? You can go to the National Art Gallery or V&A, for free. British Museum, Science Museum, National Gallery all are free. And more, Tate Modern, Tate Britain. And don't forget the numerous markets in London, Borough Market, Camden market, Portobello Road Market, Greenwich market, Spitalfields market, yes they all are touristy but there's reason for that.

There are no shortage of amazing parks and gardens in London and they all are very accessible. There are endless of great restaurants of any prices in London, food market, pop-up restaurants, SoHo bars, Oxford street shopping, Bond Street posh shopping, Regent street shopping, and the list is endless.

I stand for what I said, I've travelled far and wide including many European capitals. There is no place like London, only New York City has the same vibe. Paris ... maybe but it's not as international as London. Our language made the difference.

I'd go back to Sydney eventually, maybe to retire, that if we can still afford it when the time come, but if we can't, I'm not bothered, I am already living in one of the greatest city in world. If things go pear shaped in London ... well we can always go back to Sydney it is the most beautiful (proper) city in the world.

[dances with sheeple]

It's happened before. RIP PC Blakelock.

Tottenham 1985

http://en.wikipedia....Keith_Blakelock

I think this was more shocking at the time. I would say, it is no longer completely unexpected and that we have become a little inured to this. Albeit, still sickening.

"Dave Pengelly kept a rearguard barrier between us and the rioters, standing in the middle of it all with just a shield and a truncheon, trying to fend them off, which is an image I'll never forget."

Shocking and chilling then, still the same reading it now, these officers ended up in hand to hand combat basically, and tried to stand their ground and save people, it reads like something from the Zulu wars or the Western Front, absolutely horrifying.

The police behaved in ways at that time that inflamed the situation, no doubt, but absolutely no excuse for what happened to Blakelock.

[rollover]

When Aisha and her daughter was evicted from her flat in East Ham council's housing office in Stratford give her a train ticket to Birmingham. The Bailey hotel is currently home to six families from Newham, moved out of London by a council that is in the grip of a severe housing crisis. Some of them have been moved pre-emptively in advance of the forthcoming benefit cap, which will limit total welfare payments to £500 a week for families, and will be implemented this summer. Others have been moved out of London because Newham has run out of cheap accommodation within the borough. Over the past year, central London councils, themselves struggling to find affordable places to house their tenants, have been moving them to cheaper areas such as Newham, reducing the available affordable stock in that borough, so that Newham has had to start moving people farther out. Other London councils are making similar arrangements to provide homes for people outside the capital, and situation is likely to become increasingly common over the next year.

MP for East Ham, said he expected to see many more of his constituents moved out of London because of the benefit cap. "This is just the beginning," he said. "We have argued consistently that it makes no sense to have the benefit cap at the same level in London as in the rest of the country, when London rents are so much higher. "The government admits that over 7,000 London households will lose over £100 when the benefit cap hits and many will be forced out of London." Government changes to the benefits policy have put Newham's private rented sector under increased pressure and restricted the number of properties available for us to house homeless families," "In addition to this, changes to the benefit system will mean some properties available now would become unaffordable in the future, to the detriment of both residents seeking help with housing and the council."

Link

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

When Aisha and her daughter was evicted from her flat in East Ham council's housing office in Stratford give her a train ticket to Birmingham. The Bailey hotel is currently home to six families from Newham, moved out of London by a council that is in the grip of a severe housing crisis. Some of them have been moved pre-emptively in advance of the forthcoming benefit cap, which will limit total welfare payments to £500 a week for families, and will be implemented this summer. Others have been moved out of London because Newham has run out of cheap accommodation within the borough. Over the past year, central London councils, themselves struggling to find affordable places to house their tenants, have been moving them to cheaper areas such as Newham, reducing the available affordable stock in that borough, so that Newham has had to start moving people farther out. Other London councils are making similar arrangements to provide homes for people outside the capital, and situation is likely to become increasingly common over the next year.

MP for East Ham, said he expected to see many more of his constituents moved out of London because of the benefit cap. "This is just the beginning," he said. "We have argued consistently that it makes no sense to have the benefit cap at the same level in London as in the rest of the country, when London rents are so much higher. "The government admits that over 7,000 London households will lose over £100 when the benefit cap hits and many will be forced out of London." Government changes to the benefits policy have put Newham's private rented sector under increased pressure and restricted the number of properties available for us to house homeless families," "In addition to this, changes to the benefit system will mean some properties available now would become unaffordable in the future, to the detriment of both residents seeking help with housing and the council."

Link

When my dad got a new job 150 miles from where we lived, we lived in crappy rented accommodation in misery for a couple of months.

It's not just the unemployed who have to go through this.

[rollover]

When Aisha and her daughter was evicted from her flat in East Ham council's housing office in Stratford give her a train ticket to Birmingham. The Bailey hotel is currently home to six families from Newham, moved out of London by a council that is in the grip of a severe housing crisis. Some of them have been moved pre-emptively in advance of the forthcoming benefit cap, which will limit total welfare payments to £500 a week for families, and will be implemented this summer. Others have been moved out of London because Newham has run out of cheap accommodation within the borough. Over the past year, central London councils, themselves struggling to find affordable places to house their tenants, have been moving them to cheaper areas such as Newham, reducing the available affordable stock in that borough, so that Newham has had to start moving people farther out. Other London councils are making similar arrangements to provide homes for people outside the capital, and situation is likely to become increasingly common over the next year.

MP for East Ham, said he expected to see many more of his constituents moved out of London because of the benefit cap. "This is just the beginning," he said. "We have argued consistently that it makes no sense to have the benefit cap at the same level in London as in the rest of the country, when London rents are so much higher. "The government admits that over 7,000 London households will lose over £100 when the benefit cap hits and many will be forced out of London." Government changes to the benefits policy have put Newham's private rented sector under increased pressure and restricted the number of properties available for us to house homeless families," "In addition to this, changes to the benefit system will mean some properties available now would become unaffordable in the future, to the detriment of both residents seeking help with housing and the council."

Link

From the story:

The hotel is only an emergency, temporary stopgap, but one Newham family – a father with five children aged between 18 and six – have been living there since January, six people sharing two rooms. Jalo (who, like Aisha, requested that his real name should not be published to avoid any risk of complicating their housing situation) was evicted late last year for £200 rent arrears.

"They send us here like animals," he said. "No one has called me or told me how long I should be here."

[MRMX9]

From the story:

The hotel is only an emergency, temporary stopgap, but one Newham family – a father with five children aged between 18 and six – have been living there since January, six people sharing two rooms. Jalo (who, like Aisha, requested that his real name should not be published to avoid any risk of complicating their housing situation) was evicted late last year for £200 rent arrears.

"They send us here like animals," he said. "No one has called me or told me how long I should be here."

Sorry to be brutal - but perhaps Jalo should have thought about how he was going to house and feed his kids before he had so many of them! For far too long people have believed in London that you can have limitless numbers of children - safe in the knowledge the taxpayer will pay for their upkeep and you can access more housing.

However how come these people have to live in Birmingham yet infamous hate preacher Anjem Choudary still gets to live rent free in a house worth over £300,000 in Leytonstone east London - and is in receipt of around £25k a year in benefits.

An odd country that provides £500 a week benefits for hate preachers yet charges old people who have worked all their lives £500 a week for their social care.

[winkie]

1. Chicken/egg

2. On yer bikes - benefits should be standard across the country and let people make ECONOMIC decisions.

3. Oh - and no one should be on any benefits whilst in work. At all. If a job is worth doing in the place that they want you to do it, it should pay accordingly.

That way we can take the pressure off London - to the benefit of ALL concerned...landlords and politicians excepted.

This is going to be as much of a shock for the rest of the country as it accelerates the changing face of Britian.

Agreed......what goes around comes around.....some want it all their own way all of the time.

[Oliver Sutton]

From the story:

The hotel is only an emergency, temporary stopgap, but one Newham family – a father with five children aged between 18 and six – have been living there since January, six people sharing two rooms. Jalo (who, like Aisha, requested that his real name should not be published to avoid any risk of complicating their housing situation) was evicted late last year for £200 rent arrears.

"They send us here like animals," he said. "No one has called me or told me how long I should be here."

No-one sent him there. No-one is forcing him to stay there.

He should be thankful for the free housing he's had and continues to have.

Ungrateful sod.

[winkie]

No-one sent him there. No-one is forcing him to stay there.

He should be thankful for the free housing he's had and continues to have.

Ungrateful sod.

....our rules have only encouraged this behaviour, like it encourages the taking on of huge amounts of debt for everything from housing to education to buying big businesses......we encouraged people to live here, if we encourage that should we not provide for it by providing/ generating living wage jobs, services and homes, but not only that we have encouraged people with little chance of ever supporting themselves to have more and more children to be paid for by the rest of the community........what was the thinking behind all this I wonder?

Edited May 26, 2013 by winkie

[Dorkins]

No-one sent him there. No-one is forcing him to stay there.

He should be thankful for the free housing he's had and continues to have.

Ungrateful sod.

The language illustrates the level of infantilisation of many of these people being housed by the council. Instead of making their own decision about where to live and then acting on it, they expect some council employee to tell them where they are going to live out their lives and then assign them a free house in that area.