'we Can’T Afford Such Generosity To The Elderly'

[goldbug9999]

Part of the problem in Britain is the strength of the elderly voting bloc. Between 2005 and 2010, the number of retired voters increased by nearly 10 per cent. At the next election, fully a quarter of the electorate will be 65 or older; by 2050, it will be a third. Faced with these numbers, any politician could be forgiven for kicking the can down the road.

Those dependent on the state i.e. pensioners, benefit claimants, public sector workers etc massively outnumber those of us actually paying into it of course they are going to continue to vote themselves ever more of our money.

[Bruce Banner]

Those dependent on the state i.e. pensioners, benefit claimants, public sector workers etc massively outnumber those of us actually paying into it of course they are going to continue to vote themselves ever more of our money.

Pensioners pay tax too.

[Errol]

Naturally, we can afford to give free houses and benefits to single mothers etc etc.

lol.

[Guest eight]

But the Coalition is leaving unchallenged the main NHS budget which, at more than £100 billion a year, is six times bigger than social care.

My father in law, who is terminally ill, has been in the same hospital bed for over a month now. The amount of resources thrown at achieving a moderate improvement in quality of life for an indeterminate but inevitably small time is quite..... surprising. I'm not saying we should whack the old dude over the head with a shovel and be done with it, but just upscaling our own particular circumstances you can really see how as a nation we are burning through all we can borrow and more.

[Bloo Loo]

this is clearly nonsense as 100% of public sector workers who care to post about their own pension, insist their scheme is 100% funded.

[SuperChimp]

Those dependent on the state i.e. pensioners, benefit claimants, public sector workers etc massively outnumber those of us actually paying into it of course they are going to continue to vote themselves ever more of our money.

Paying into what? Where do you think that money comes from?

[cybernoid]

Pensioners pay tax too.

That reminds me of the argument you hear from some public sector workers when they say they don't want the state to shrink and also complain their taxes are too high

[57percent]

My father in law, who is terminally ill, has been in the same hospital bed for over a month now. The amount of resources thrown at achieving a moderate improvement in quality of life for an indeterminate but inevitably small time is quite..... surprising. I'm not saying we should whack the old dude over the head with a shovel and be done with it, but just upscaling our own particular circumstances you can really see how as a nation we are burning through all we can borrow and more.

It's difficult though. We probably can't afford it, but it's the care we'd want for our parents and ourselves when the time comes.

[R K]

We can't afford such generosity to f*ckwits like Michael Green that's for sure.

[R K]

Those dependent on the state i.e. pensioners, benefit claimants, public sector workers etc massively outnumber those of us actually paying into it of course they are going to continue to vote themselves ever more of our money.

What does that even mean?

The 'debt' or deferred consumption, or savings if you prefer, is held mostly by pensioners or prospective pensioners (via insurance funds/investment funds etc) themselves, about 1/3rd by the BoE, and the rest China, Japan and a bunch of oil states in dodgy areas.

The level of thinking on this forum is clearly making an attempt to plummet new depths.

Edited May 7, 2013 by R K

[btl_hater]

Part of the problem in Britain is the strength of the elderly voting bloc. Between 2005 and 2010, the number of retired voters increased by nearly 10 per cent. At the next election, fully a quarter of the electorate will be 65 or older; by 2050, it will be a third.

Ugh! What a depressing thought. Doesn't look like the number of cafe lattes being sold in M&S cafes are going to go down anytime soon.

[57percent]

What does that even mean?

The 'debt' or deferred consumption, or savings if you prefer, is held mostly by pensioners or prospective pensioners (via insurance funds/investment funds etc) themselves, about 1/3rd by the BoE, and the rest China, Japan and a bunch of oil states in dodgy areas.

The level of thinking on this forum is clearly making an attempt to plummet new depths.

So they've lent the government money to spend on themselves.

Who's paying it back?

[Dorkins]

Pensioners pay tax too.

Pensioners who don't work consume without producing. Paying tax just reduces the amount they can consume, it doesn't change a minus to a plus.

[Timak]

Reform the independent think tank.

Independent? Formed by Nick Herbert (Tory MP) and the the head of the Conservative Party Research Group.

Formerly run by Liz Truss (Tory MP) now run by ex-Circle healthcare executive.

Funded by private healthcare groups, big 4 accountants and drug companies.

These groups are nothing but 1% shill groups.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Timak

[Jack's Creation]

So they've lent the government money to spend on themselves.

Who's paying it back?

That's too complex an argument for Frank, just tell him that Osborne and the Bullingdon boys stole it all to pay for Thatcher's funeral.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Jack's Creation

[SarahBell]

They all need to smoke.

[porca misèria]

My father in law, who is terminally ill, has been in the same hospital bed for over a month now. ..... surprising. I'm not saying we should whack the old dude over the head with a shovel and be done with it,

There will come a time when that will be the best thing for everyone, including him. Except any relatives or busybodies who can't accept it.

[Harry Monk]

My father in law, who is terminally ill, has been in the same hospital bed for over a month now. The amount of resources thrown at achieving a moderate improvement in quality of life for an indeterminate but inevitably small time is quite..... surprising. I'm not saying we should whack the old dude over the head with a shovel and be done with it, but just upscaling our own particular circumstances you can really see how as a nation we are burning through all we can borrow and more.

Massive amounts of money were wasted keeping my 86-year-old Dad alive just to keep on living a life of absolute hopelessness and misery, we had to tell the hospital staff not to resuscitate him again and if they had, I was quite ready to put him out of his misery by smothering him with a pillow, even if it meant prison for me.

[goldbug9999]

Paying into what? Where do you think that money comes from?

Fair enough I made the mistake of talking in terms of money and not productivity, let me restate:

Those of us who produce some useful are out numbered by those who do not, thus the latter will seek to vote themselves more of our output.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

I had a customer when I was in business who built his company from scratch with £100 he saved to start him off. When retiring at 65 years of age he sold out for £12 million and I believe he had to pay 40% Capital Gains Tax on the amount. He loves getting his State Pension, Heating Allowance, and uses his Bus Pass.

[South Lorne]

Pensioners who don't work consume without producing. Paying tax just reduces the amount they can consume, it doesn't change a minus to a plus.

..if their pension is from the private sector..when they die there is less going into the exchequer each month to pay for all those who are funded by the taxpayer including those pensioners whose pensions from the public sector are paid by the tax payer....funded or not by themselves...

[wherebee]

I'm going all in on wurthers originals.

[spyguy]

I had a customer when I was in business who built his company from scratch with £100 he saved to start him off. When retiring at 65 years of age he sold out for £12 million and I believe he had to pay 40% Capital Gains Tax on the amount. He loves getting his State Pension, Heating Allowance, and uses his Bus Pass.

My dad pissed around and spent half his working life on benefits and the other half working for companies that required massive state support.

Mortgage IRs paid off by the state, kids raised by (little) money from state.

My Dad is more typical than your ex-client.

[erat_forte]

Fair enough I made the mistake of talking in terms of money and not productivity, let me restate:

Those of us who produce some useful are out numbered by those who do not, thus the latter will seek to vote themselves more of our output.

Since productivity and automation have gone up so much, that one farmer can produce enough food for thousands, and one factory worker can produce enough clothing and consumer goods for hundreds, what other outcome do you expect?

Or is "work" such a moral virtue that everyone should be digging holes and filling them in, or filling out requisitioning forms and risk assessments for each paperclip they use to clip said forms together?

[olliegog]

Pensioners who don't work consume without producing. Paying tax just reduces the amount they can consume, it doesn't change a minus to a plus.

benefit recipients and the disabled, chronically sick also consume without producing but pay tax through VAT and every time they spend money. (even if they don't pay income tax)

look at it this way - pensioners who are in need of / expensive to the NHS are in the same category as the disabled/ chronically sick and children. They are vulnerable they are not using the NHS for the 'fun of it', they don't have prescriptions just because they get then free.

by definition a pensioner is not EXPECTED to work - they have done their stint - paid for the elderly who went before them, paid for the benefits of people who did not work while they did.