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Ukip Effect Or Serious ?

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If the Tory vote splits in half you could get a scenario of Labour creaming in two third of the seats with a mere 29% of the vote in 2015.

Maybe Cameron will regret (then) not accommodating the Lib Dems with PR.

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Hmm. The guardian 'contributors' were saying exactly the same thing around 98/99 with the euro. We'll be left out, isolated, businesses will flee to france, FDI will shut down. No such transfer happened. Wealth can only come from innovation and productivity, not another level of bureaucracy. If the EU was primarily a free-trade zone, id agree with the guardian. Over the last 20 years however, (since the maastricht treaty i guess) its become primarily a self serving bureacracy.

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I voted UKIP in these elections, so did my wife. I will do so again at the general election.

My reasons:

1) The established parties disdain for the general population and their inability to listen to and run the country for the people who live here rather than a set of businesses/bankers/solicitors and toffs.

2) The governments continued policy of stealing from us to support the bankers

3) Immigration

4) Benefits

5) Europe.

I doubt the people in UKIP are any better than the others but the one thing they do have in their favour...they are not the others.

Vote UKIP, vote for change.

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Hmm. The guardian 'contributors' were saying exactly the same thing around 98/99 with the euro. We'll be left out, isolated, businesses will flee to france, FDI will shut down. No such transfer happened. Wealth can only come from innovation and productivity, not another level of bureaucracy. If the EU was primarily a free-trade zone, id agree with the guardian. Over the last 20 years however, (since the maastricht treaty i guess) its become primarily a self serving bureacracy.

+1... the EU needs to go back to be a free trade zone..the gravy train needs derailing

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Hmm. The guardian 'contributors' were saying exactly the same thing around 98/99 with the euro. We'll be left out, isolated, businesses will flee to france, FDI will shut down. No such transfer happened. Wealth can only come from innovation and productivity, not another level of bureaucracy. If the EU was primarily a free-trade zone, id agree with the guardian. Over the last 20 years however, (since the maastricht treaty i guess) its become primarily a self serving bureacracy.

China

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I voted UKIP in these elections, so did my wife. I will do so again at the general election.

My reasons:

1) The established parties disdain for the general population and their inability to listen to and run the country for the people who live here rather than a set of businesses/bankers/solicitors and toffs.

2) The governments continued policy of stealing from us to support the bankers

3) Immigration

4) Benefits

5) Europe.

I doubt the people in UKIP are any better than the others but the one thing they do have in their favour...they are not the others.

Vote UKIP, vote for change.

+1

IMO UKIP's momentum is caused by all three other mainstream parties' pandering to the banks. There is very little to distinguish between them on that front. People are voting UKIP because they are the only other party that is large enough to make a protest vote register. Plus, Farage looks much more of a leader than Cameron, Gidiot, Millipede, Balls and Cleggy combined.

(for the record, I did not vote in last week's elections)

Edit to add - I am disappointed that the other parties haven't even begun to realise this and have instead focused their response to last week's polls solely on the EU. Whether we're in the EU or not matters little while the bankers have got such a huge influence on TPTB.

Edited by rantnrave

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+1... the EU needs to go back to be a free trade zone..the gravy train needs derailing

I really can't see how abandoning the European single market can possibly be beneficial. Having a common framework of laws and standards makes it easier, not only for European companies to trade with one another, but also for external companies to trade with European companies. Without that framework, trade will inevitably suffer and prosperity will take a hit.

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I really can't see how abandoning the European single market can possibly be beneficial. Having a common framework of laws and standards makes it easier, not only for European companies to trade with one another, but also for external companies to trade with European companies. Without that framework, trade will inevitably suffer and prosperity will take a hit.

having an elite political minority managing and living off a massive European population majority is not healthy...we need local government and free trade...the same thing goes for the UK as whole..the politicians and their interfering with markets,including their support of specific industries like the banking sector, are the problem not the solution.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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I voted UKIP in these elections, so did my wife. I will do so again at the general election.

My reasons:

1) The established parties disdain for the general population and their inability to listen to and run the country for the people who live here rather than a set of businesses/bankers/solicitors and toffs.

2) The governments continued policy of stealing from us to support the bankers

3) Immigration

4) Benefits

5) Europe.

I doubt the people in UKIP are any better than the others but the one thing they do have in their favour...they are not the others.

Vote UKIP, vote for change.

You might not get change, of course. Politicians are cheaply bought. But I agree, I 'sent a message' for exactly the same reasons as you.

There is quite a challenge to democracy at the moment. The candidates that we are asked to vote for are chosen by parties which fell out of favour years ago, as far as I can see.

Take a look at the declining membership of the Labour party, for example.

I read that there are now fewer members of the Labour Party than things like the Women's Institute, maybe the Royal Society for the Preservation of Birds. What possible mandate do they have to choose people we vote for?

UKIP will do for now. But I hardly see Farage as a revolutionary. He's good at lambasting the other expenses-sozzled MEPs after lunch in some cafe off Brussels Grand Place, when they are too legless to formulate a reply. He's good with easy targets. But a 'man of the people'?

He strikes me as disconnected from planet earth as any of them . . . exvcept when he falls to earth out of a dodgy helicopter.

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I really can't see how abandoning the European single market can possibly be beneficial. Having a common framework of laws and standards makes it easier, not only for European companies to trade with one another, but also for external companies to trade with European companies. Without that framework, trade will inevitably suffer and prosperity will take a hit.

+1

It's also ironic when people who complain about government interference want the government to interfere much more every time they travel to or trade with another European country.

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I really can't see how abandoning the European single market can possibly be beneficial. Having a common framework of laws and standards makes it easier, not only for European companies to trade with one another, but also for external companies to trade with European companies. Without that framework, trade will inevitably suffer and prosperity will take a hit.

You don't need an overweening political bureaucracy to achieve that though.

It's striking that there has been little harmonisation in low-level practical things that would actually benefit people like agreeing a standard electrical plug design.

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Plus, Farage looks much more of a leader than Cameron, Gidiot, Millipede, Balls and Cleggy combined.

Farage is a media-driven populist. He'll say whatever thinks his audience wants to hear, regardless of logic, accuracy or inconsistencies.

For example, in my neck of the woods HS2 is a big topic, and many of the local populace are opposed to it. In its 2010 manifesto, UKIP enthusiastically supported the introduction of high-speed rail throughout the UK; now, of course, all that is forgotten as they jump on the bandwagon to boast their implacable opposition to HS2. They take short-termism to new extremes.

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Farage is a media-driven populist. He'll say whatever thinks his audience wants to hear, regardless of logic, accuracy or inconsistencies.

For example, in my neck of the woods HS2 is a big topic, and many of the local populace are opposed to it. In its 2010 manifesto, UKIP enthusiastically supported the introduction of high-speed rail throughout the UK; now, of course, all that is forgotten as they jump on the bandwagon to boast their implacable opposition to HS2. They take short-termism to new extremes.

I don't think that's a fair charge. It's possible to be in favour of infrastructure investment while thinking that HS2 is a misconceived project. Issues like that are rarely driven by principle but by tactics.

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You don't need an overweening political bureaucracy to achieve that though.

It's striking that there has been little harmonisation in low-level practical things that would actually benefit people like agreeing a standard electrical plug design.

You'd be surprised. The funny thing is that people nowadays just expect that all their devices will work normally throughout Europe, apart from needing a plug adaptor. That is be no means a given, and is largely due to EU directives such as those on electromagnetic compatibility. And yes, if the laws that support this standardisation are going to be drafted and enforced, then some bureaucracy is unavoidable.

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For example, in my neck of the woods HS2 is a big topic, and many of the local populace are opposed to it. In its 2010 manifesto, UKIP enthusiastically supported the introduction of high-speed rail throughout the UK; now, of course, all that is forgotten as they jump on the bandwagon to boast their implacable opposition to HS2. They take short-termism to new extremes.

Yeah god forbid that a politician should change their stance based on what the voters want.

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I don't think that's a fair charge. It's possible to be in favour of infrastructure investment while thinking that HS2 is a misconceived project. Issues like that are rarely driven by principle but by tactics.

You're twisting my words. UKIP enthusiastically supported "high-speed rail" (not "infrastructure investment"). At least they did while it was still theory, before the actual planning started and there was political mileage to be gained in taking the opposite stance.

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You'd be surprised. The funny thing is that people nowadays just expect that all their devices will work normally throughout Europe, apart from needing a plug adaptor. That is be no means a given, and is largely due to EU directives such as those on electromagnetic compatibility. And yes, if the laws that support this standardisation are going to be drafted and enforced, then some bureaucracy is unavoidable.

Largely due to EU directives is an overstatement. Why do all my devices work normally throughout the world, apart from needing a plug adaptor?

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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