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Pensions Loophole Lets 220,000 People Living Abroad Claim A State Pension Despite Never Having Worked In The Uk

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Clever way of both cutting the pensions bill, and providing encouragement for both partners to work rather than one work and one keep house.

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Pensions Minister Steve Webb said huge numbers of people were exploiting a loophole in the law that allows them to claim a so-called spouse's pension even if they have made little or no national insurance contributions.

The anomaly arises because of rules that allow people to claim a 'married person's allowance' worth up to £3,500 a year based on their spouse's contributions.

Whose "loophole" and "anomaly"? This has been part of the state pension terms for decades.

'Hundreds of thousands of people living abroad are able to claim pensions in this country despite never having worked here, it emerged last night.

and

The allowances will be scrapped for new claimants under measures to be included in this week's Queen's Speech - although existing claimants will continue to receive the payments for the rest of their lives.

The overseas angle is a smokescreen, this will affect people living in the UK.

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Peanuts compared to what we spend daily on contributing to the EU and overseas aid.....not saying right or wrong but they should be going for big hits not making a big deal out of what is in fact pocket money in the scheme of things.....anyway their spouses worked and paid taxes in this country, where they live is irrelevant, change the system for all then if it does not suit...just saying. ;)

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Plenty of people claiming a spouse's pension in the UK have never worked either.

So what - it's a spouse's pension that's the whole point.

It's telling that the idiot govt minister is going to do absolutely nothing whatsoever about the 220,000 people he's talking about.

Typical Tory propaganda reaction to Farage destroying their council seats.

The allowances will be scrapped for new claimants under measures to be included in this week's Queen's Speech - although existing claimants will continue to receive the payments for the rest of their lives.

Foreigner bashing, gay bashing.......the right wing nutters seem to be on a mission to outdo each other

Edited by R K

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WHy can't they scrap the whole bleeding thing? Its a disgrace.

They should scrap the whole lot of these pensions. I know someone who is over 65 who has married a thai girl of 20 something. He says she will get his pension when he goes for the rest of her life. She has never been here. She will pocket more from our country than most young people who live and work here.

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Not that i am against him marrying his young lady of course. But its us here who will be paying for her when he has popped his clogs.

Bit of an outlying example, no? Spouses pensions are reasonable IMHO, struggling to see the problem.

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that's a cracking good point.

If you feed £3500 through the Big Mac index it suggests it's worth more like £5,750 a year or about £110 a month in purchasing parity terms - not far off the UK pension for people who have paid NI all their lives. Imagine getting that kind of income for life from your mid thirties or younger. No wonder British pensioners are so irresistible to young thai women <_< .

Edit: It would be fascinating to find out what age the youngest recipient of a UK pension is.

Edited by Orsino

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Bit of an outlying example, no? Spouses pensions are reasonable IMHO, struggling to see the problem.

For clarity, the problem is that there are a huge amount of people who have married foreigners, and gone to live abroad, or who have spouses living abroad, who have never contributed anything in national insurance here, who are entitled to the national insurance contributions of those paying it here. Some , like the example i quoted will be in receipt of for more years than most of our current working youngsters will be receiving their own pension, if its still around when they retire. I think its a problem.

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If you feed £3500 through the Big Mac index it suggests it's worth more like £5,750 a year or about £110 a month in purchasing parity terms - not far off the UK pension for people who have paid NI all their lives. Imagine getting that kind of income for life from your mid thirties or younger. No wonder British pensioners are so irresistible to young thai women <_< .

Edit: It would be fascinating to find out what age the youngest recipient of a UK pension is.

Not lived in Thailand but from my experiences in SE Asia I think 3500GBP would be a years wage for a lot of people, no problems. Big Macs are an expensive luxury in a lot of developing countries and the ability to eat in MacDonalds and drink at Starbucks on a regular basis is a status symbol. In any event, I'd imagine it's a decent wedge for a bar girl.

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For clarity, the problem is that there are a huge amount of people who have married foreigners, and gone to live abroad, or who have spouses living abroad, who have never contributed anything in national insurance here, who are entitled to the national insurance contributions of those paying it here. Some , like the example i quoted will be in receipt of for more years than most of our current working youngsters will be receiving their own pension, if its still around when they retire. I think its a problem.

Yes there are agreements with many countries. If I keep contributing here in Japan for the next 30 years, it is the same as having been contributing in the UK. Like I say the number of 20 year olds getting pensions must be vanishingly small. More likely widowed foreign spouses.

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If you feed £3500 through the Big Mac index it suggests it's worth more like £5,750 a year or about £110 a month in purchasing parity terms - not far off the UK pension for people who have paid NI all their lives. Imagine getting that kind of income for life from your mid thirties or younger. No wonder British pensioners are so irresistible to young thai women <_< .

Edit: It would be fascinating to find out what age the youngest recipient of a UK pension is.

Not only thai, but many more third world countries. But its true to say that british pensioners would be worth a lot less to the women if there was no pension when the coffin was put away, or whatever.

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Yes there are agreements with many countries. If I keep contributing here in Japan for the next 30 years, it is the same as having been contributing in the UK. Like I say the number of 20 year olds getting pensions must be vanishingly small. More likely widowed foreign spouses.

You must have been to thailand then and seen the british pensioners with young wives then, and not only pensioners. All will be able to receive the husbands pensions. If their was no transfer of pensions to wives then a few less suckers would get ripped off over there.

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Peanuts compared to what we spend daily on contributing to the EU and overseas aid.....not saying right or wrong but they should be going for big hits not making a big deal out of what is in fact pocket money in the scheme of things.....anyway their spouses worked and paid taxes in this country, where they live is irrelevant, change the system for all then if it does not suit...just saying. ;)

Reading the DM article it looks to me that this is exactly what's going to happen.

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You must have been to thailand then and seen the british pensioners with young wives then, and not only pensioners. All will be able to receive the husbands pensions. If their was no transfer of pensions to wives then a few less suckers would get ripped off over there.

I very much doubt it. I dint think they are so sophisticated that they explicitly target British men for the spouses pension. They simply think foreigner equals money. My objection is that there must be a load of British widows who have never worked pocketing the husbands pension. Where's the objection to them?

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Not lived in Thailand but from my experiences in SE Asia I think 3500GBP would be a years wage for a lot of people, no problems. Big Macs are an expensive luxury in a lot of developing countries and the ability to eat in MacDonalds and drink at Starbucks on a regular basis is a status symbol. In any event, I'd imagine it's a decent wedge for a bar girl.

Exactly. When a chap goes there and finds a wife ,he is pissing away our younger generations contributions on the alter of his own ego, so to speak. Without the pension many of the women would not be intrested. After all, most asians are better financially savvy than westerners when it comes to security and gold.. Just my oppinion.

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I very much doubt it. I dint think they are so sophisticated that they explicitly target British men for the spouses pension. They simply think foreigner equals money. My objection is that there must be a load of British widows who have never worked pocketing the husbands pension. Where's the objection to them?

If you are a british widow, or widower, especially if you lived here, it is a lot more likely they have paid contributions . How many is open to question. I dont know about other euro or usa pension arrangements, but from my experience many women in thailand are after a british husband. But then, maybe its because english is their second language.

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If you are a british widow, or widower, especially if you lived here, it is a lot more likely they have paid contributions . How many is open to question. I dont know about other euro or usa pension arrangements, but from my experience many women in thailand are after a british husband. But then, maybe its because english is their second language.

I think we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think this is another excuse to raid pensions on the back of a flimsy example

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I think we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think this is another excuse to raid pensions on the back of a flimsy example

Yes, quite likely, but the whole country is absolutely rife with this kind of waste of taxpayers money so its about time something was done about something at least. Just a thought though, if they bring in a cut off point where a husband dies and there is no more pension, might it bring about a bunch of dead farang http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gifmen in thailand in order that some of the minxes qualify for a pension?

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Is there any other country that gives extra pension money to spouses?

If there is it may be worth marrying some one from that country so you can both get extra money.

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Oh yes... the madness of state promises (good for those receiving it, however)

The two children of American Civil War veterans who are STILL receiving soldiers' pensions nearly 150 YEARS after war ended

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2296596/The-children-American-Civil-War-veterans-STILL-receiving-soldiers-pensions-nearly-150-YEARS-war-ended.html

So married at 80 to someone at 16 and the state could be paying a pension ( spouse pension) for about 100 years.

However, I am concern about the sudden change (this new proposal kicks in at 2016) which gives someone very little time to adapt (or could not adapt if they were no longer young. The harm that politicians caused from making promises without careful thinking is rather severe)

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Yes there are agreements with many countries. If I keep contributing here in Japan for the next 30 years, it is the same as having been contributing in the UK. Like I say the number of 20 year olds getting pensions must be vanishingly small. More likely widowed foreign spouses.

I do not believe so. The Double Contribution agreement is limited to 5 years for Japan I believe.

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I think we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think this is another excuse to raid pensions on the back of a flimsy example

Agreed. It is all of a piece with the rest of the pension bill including the abolition of the second state pension which people very much did have to pay extra Class 1 NIC to accrue. People who have paid Contracted Out NIC will also be getting a reduced pension from 2016 which will be nearer the current £110 per week rather than the new £144 flat rate (ie nearly 25% less) that is a pretty big claw back when you consider that people on Contracted out of the second state pension currently only pay a 1.4% lower rate of Class 1 NIC Contributions than those on the full rate (ie a rebate of about 10%) .While I don't personally disagree with the Pension reforms it should be be noted that the changes mean that overall the new system will not mean that the end pension matches overall contributions anymore than the current one and that quite a few those losing out are individuals who will have paid most in to the system in pure monetary terms over the years.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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If you feed £3500 through the Big Mac index it suggests it's worth more like £5,750 a year or about £110 a month in purchasing parity terms - not far off the UK pension for people who have paid NI all their lives. Imagine getting that kind of income for life from your mid thirties or younger. No wonder British pensioners are so irresistible to young thai women <_< .

Edit: It would be fascinating to find out what age the youngest recipient of a UK pension is.

Big Mac is a luxury in Thailand while Green Curry with rice isn't and I believe you mean £110 per week.

You need to calculate the PPP and for areas outside major cities in Thailand, that probably gives around £15000 worth of spending power. In those places, you get a good meal for £0.60 (Bht 30)

Also bare in mind that Thailand GDP per capita is $5,678 or around £3663 per annum.

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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