Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TheBlueCat

Id Cards

Recommended Posts

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/03/tory_id_card_plans_found_old_cabinet/

Back in '95:

Also, chief police officers remain opposed

Something of an about turn there:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/apr/18/september11.immigration

Also:

The Guardian quoted Jack Straw, Labour’s shadow home secretary, as saying Labour would oppose compulsory identity cards as “alien to the British tradition” of individual liberty.

Doesn't come much more ironic than that.

What's the odds on ID cards being back on the agenda once Labour are back in power in 2015?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the odds on ID cards being back on the agenda once Labour are back in power in 2015?

New, New Labour might burn a QR Code onto your forehead instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New, New Labour might burn a QR Code onto your forehead instead.

Fair point, can't really argue with that analysis. Actually, I don't expect ID cards themselves to make a comeback, I'd expect something more subtle like the US real ID act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eight

Fair point, can't really argue with that analysis. Actually, I don't expect ID cards themselves to make a comeback, I'd expect something more subtle like the US real ID act.

I believe there is an ID card element to the Universal Credit scheme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Britains views on ID cards are so backwards. CCTV everywhere, but ID cards noooooo

You can avoid CCTV by the simple expedient of wearing a burka. You can't easily avoid ID cards that will be required to buy, sell, work or travel anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can avoid CCTV by the simple expedient of wearing a burka. You can't easily avoid ID cards that will be required to buy, sell, work or travel anywhere.

It'll be a strange country when everyone wears a burka.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A friend of mine works as a primary teacher in a state school in north Manchester. They fingerprint the pupils when they start, and every day use an electronic device to record attendance. This is instead of taking register as they used to do in my day. The current generation may not tolerate intrusive state surveillance, but the younger generation are being brought up with it and completely normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the "Register" article! Clearly, knowing exactly where everyone is,is a Government obsession, not related to party! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Britains views on ID cards are so backwards. CCTV everywhere, but ID cards noooooo

Its not the ID cards. Its the database that goes with them.

Look, CCTV is only really found in commercial outlets or town centres. I could walk from Lands End to John O'Groats without passing a single camera. Plus most cameras are poor quality and footage is only retained for a few weeks, typically.

An ID card linked to a database that tracks every purchase etc for years is far more sinister

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not the ID cards. Its the database that goes with them.

Look, CCTV is only really found in commercial outlets or town centres. I could walk from Lands End to John O'Groats without passing a single camera. Plus most cameras are poor quality and footage is only retained for a few weeks, typically.

An ID card linked to a database that tracks every purchase etc for years is far more sinister

You don't use credit or debit cards do you? This database you talk of exists.

The fact I have to show 2-3 different bills to rent a sodding movie instead of just showing an ID card is preposterous .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't use credit or debit cards do you? This database you talk of exists.

The fact I have to show 2-3 different bills to rent a sodding movie instead of just showing an ID card is preposterous .

It is ironic that you bemoan not having an ID card to stop the excessive request for ID instead of questioning the need for more ID - being led by the nose?

Anyway, the fact that there are other databases is not a good reason to introduce a compulsory ID system (sorry 'voluntary', but you wouldn't be allowed a passport and eventually many other things without being registered in that system). If your right hand is broken that doesn't make it a good idea to break the left too. If people want to identify themselves they currently have a wide choice of info to use, including a voluntary one called a CitizenCard. If they got their orwellian system in then it would have been unlawful to use any other identity - we would have been tethered to it.

The reason many people vehemently opposed the ID system was both due to principle and the fact that the reasons being put forward for it were completely bogus and debunked. First they started with terrorism and when that didn't work they went to 'protecting your identity' - the gov protecting my identity lol - and finally settled on 'making your life easier'. Yeah right, when is your life ever made easier by bureaucracy? There was very much an air of 'we're going to do this whether you like it or not'.

As a matter of principle I'm against compulsory state owned identity profiles. There is absolutely no reason to trust any government to 'look after your identity'. The ID card was just the front-end to something many people liken to a 'statebook' where a lot of personal info (not just your age, name or DOB as Labour asserted) including all current and future biometrics and all your ID related interactions would be stored forever (yes, even after death). Loads of public bodies would also have quite broad access powers to all this info.

Something which was also glossed over was the fact that if any piece of information held about you was wrong then you would be liable for the error and have life-long reporting obligations to the state on pain of fines.

No matter how hard I try I can't reconcile concepts of liberty with state-owned, biometric tracking profiles with life-long accountability to the state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't use credit or debit cards do you? This database you talk of exists.

The fact I have to show 2-3 different bills to rent a sodding movie instead of just showing an ID card is preposterous .

Until someone takes your id, and you cease to legally exist.

Given that in the last few years documentaries have shown it is is possible to buy a real 'fake' passport from insiders at the passport office, how quickly do you think this would become fundamentally broken?

Take the whole thing a few steps onward.... you need the id card to open a bank account, use a bank card (actually why bother just use the id card), buy or insure a car, a house, a flight. Train tickets, taxis, buy booze. Logged at every turn, flash alerts to the local rozzers if your car goes past a camera within 12 hours of buying booze - automagic grounds for an intelligence lead stop and booze check. Doctors records tied to shopping and lifestyle habits.

All suddenly become viable with a 1 to 1 fundamental ID card. All next to impossible given the current disconnected mishmash that the credit reference agencies rely on.

Incidentally, a debate covered reasonably well for its time by Yes Minister:

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v210377368YCPZ5QM?h1=Yes+Minister+1.4+-+Big+Brother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.