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geezer466

Why Now?

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Why have the made this public now?

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1328547

The piece of the doomed plane was found two blocks north of the Lower Manhattan site where the Freedom Tower is rising to replace the Twin Towers. The gear remained untouched Friday and won't be moved until officials can test it for contaminants.

plane27n-2-web.jpg

Some news outlets are reporting that the part has some rope with it (as can be seen in this pic) and might be suggesting that it could have been lowered into place.

Is there a need to reawaken 9/11 in the conciousness of the American people? Coming very close to the Boston Marathon event is very bewildering...

And no one had looked into this building void in the last 12 years?

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And no one had looked into this building void in the last 12 years?

The 'Ground Zero' mosque element of the story is a nice touch.

As is the bit of rope.

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This is obviously a conspiracy. And it's definitely been lowered into place by craft.

(You ******ing nutters)

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The BBC report goes a little further..

Broken pulley Mr Kelly told reporters after inspecting it that a length of rope was looped around the piece of steel and that no marks were visible on the walls overhead.

What appears to be the remains of a broken pulley can be seen with the wreckage and the New York Times reports that Mr Kelly did not completely exclude the idea that the aircraft debris may have been lowered into the gap.

No mention of the pulley or lack of marks in the earlier newspaper report.

Who mentioned craft?

There can be any number of reasons behind this not withstanding the piece did arrive here on the day of the crash.

Equally it could have been recovered from the site (of the original terrorist attack) and replaced into this position for reasons as yet unbeknown to us.

In the meantime we will discuss all the alternatives and how likily/unlikily they are.

If it did arrive on the day of the event how come it has took 12 years for them to find it close to one of what have been one of the most forensically examined places on the face of this planet?

Remember they found a terrorists passport some distance away which came from within one of the aircraft and that is a lot smaller than a 5 foot section of landing gear and a lot more susceptible to blast and fire damage.

No one is saying there is a conspiracy here simply that some of these events/facts do not add up.

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Is there a need to reawaken 9/11 in the conciousness of the American people? Coming very close to the Boston Marathon event is very bewildering...

The NY authorities have been re-excavating debris and pulling out remains on and off since the towers collapsed. Bits and pieces are still occasionally being found on rooftops...

npr: A New Search For 9/11 Victims' Remains (31/3/2013)

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This is obviously a conspiracy. And it's definitely been lowered into place by craft.

(You ******ing nutters)

Two straw men and one ad hominem in a couple of lines.

Impressive

Though, personally, if I was certain about a particular point of view I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot by putting words into my opponents' mouths or resorting to abuse. I guess it must be an Occam thing.

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If it did arrive on the day of the event how come it has took 12 years for them to find it close to one of what have been one of the most forensically examined places on the face of this planet?

As far as I'm aware the location was cleared as soon as cool enough to do so and the scrap steel shipped off with almost no forensics on it.

You'd have thought there were things to learn about the failure mode of a concrete and steel structure under such circumstances, obviously not.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Destruction_of_Evidence_from_Ground_Zero_at_the_World_Trade_Center

James Glanz and Eric Lipton, "Experts Urging Broader Inquiry in Towers' Fall," New York Times, December 25, 2001:

"In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.

"Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three-day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation.

"'The city considered it reasonable to have recovered structural steel recycled,' said Matthew G. Monahan, a spokesman for the city's Department of Design and Construction, which is in charge of debris removal at the site."

Bill Manning, "$elling Out the Investigation," Fire Engineering, January 2002:

"For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car.

"Such destruction of evidence shows the astounding ignorance of government officials to the value of a thorough, scientific investigation of the largest fire-induced collapse in world history. I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall."

"Baosteel Will Recycle World Trade Center Debris," www.china.org, January 24, 2002:

"A shipment of scrap steel from New York's collapsed World Trade Center will arrive in Shanghai tomorrow, according to media reports. The steel was bought by Shanghai Baosteel Group Corp. and several other domestic mills, which are always eager to buy scrap metal.

"Baosteel Group, the nation's largest steel firm, has purchased 50,000 tons of the scrap steel from 'Ground Zero,' the ruins of the September 11 terrorist attack, at no more than US$120 each ton, according to yesterday's Beijing Youth Daily. ... Most of the scrap will be recycled into ingots, but part of the relics will be molded into WTC souvenirs, the paper said.

"Baosteel officials reached by Shanghai Daily, however, denied they will make keepsakes out of the debris, but declined to give more details of their plans, saying only that the scrap will be melted down and reprocessed into new steel products.

"Another shipment of 10,000 tons of scrap from the WTC arrived in India earlier this month, reported Shanghai Morning Post. The metal will be melted down and recycled into kitchenware and other household items, the paper said.

"India bought its lot at US$120 per ton from the New Jersey scrap processor Metal Management, which purchased 40,000 tons of the debris at an auction held by the New York City government. Dealers estimated that the WTC disaster created more than 300,000 tons of scrap metal."

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The BBC report goes a little further..

No mention of the pulley or lack of marks in the earlier newspaper report.

Who mentioned craft?

There can be any number of reasons behind this not withstanding the piece did arrive here on the day of the crash.

Equally it could have been recovered from the site (of the original terrorist attack) and replaced into this position for reasons as yet unbeknown to us.

In the meantime we will discuss all the alternatives and how likily/unlikily they are.

If it did arrive on the day of the event how come it has took 12 years for them to find it close to one of what have been one of the most forensically examined places on the face of this planet?

Remember they found a terrorists passport some distance away which came from within one of the aircraft and that is a lot smaller than a 5 foot section of landing gear and a lot more susceptible to blast and fire damage.

No one is saying there is a conspiracy here simply that some of these events/facts do not add up.

The investigators complained that evidence was destroyed before they had a chance to examine it. Some say more money was spent investigating stains on Monica's dress, than on the 911 investigation. Typical is this comment:

"I wish I had more time to inspect steel structure and save more pieces before the steel was recycled." Professor Astaneh-Asl of Berkeley, at the Committee on Science hearing, March 6, 2002.

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No one is saying there is a conspiracy here simply that some of these events/facts do not add up.

It's unlikely that someone parking that debris for PR purposes would have left a rope and pulley on or around the wreckage.

Someone may have lowered it there but it's easy enough to come up with other reasons why they may have a done so.

Are the US media going to make a meal of something like this when it comes up, particularly with everything else that's going on? I'd think so.

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You can see the Sarin on the undercarriage, and if you look very carefully it says 'made in syria'.

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It's unlikely that someone parking that debris for PR purposes would have left a rope and pulley on or around the wreckage.

Someone may have lowered it there but it's easy enough to come up with other reasons why they may have a done so.

How can you lower something on a pulley into a space that it is wedged into? It obviously would have had to have hit the gap with some force to get there.

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How can you lower something on a pulley into a space that it is wedged into? It obviously would have had to have hit the gap with some force to get there.

Is there enough information to have any firm idea what happened? Wait a few days and the story could have changed substantially.

With most early news stories I find myself asking a few questions and 'parking' any opinion on them until the dust has settled. I appreciate that this is not normal behaviour. People are wired to draw conclusions asap and file them away in the back of their head. Otherwise stuff would never get done.

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The photo does suggest it is firmly wedged into the space. There is hardly any room either side and it is a tight fit.

The BBC page also mentions..

no marks were visible on the walls overhead.

Of course this is an early report and more will become known in the next few days.

Could the marks on the brickwork have weathered over the years?

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The photo does suggest it is firmly wedged into the space. There is hardly any room either side and it is a tight fit.

The BBC page also mentions..

Of course this is an early report and more will become known in the next few days.

Could the marks on the brickwork have weathered over the years?

That wreckage is a tight fit. It's hard to imagine it rattling down that gap without getting jammed on the way down. It's equally hard to imagine someone lowering it down without it getting jammed. Maybe a clean-up team yanked it down to make it safe. Maybe someone dragged what was a piece of evidence off the street to stop it being chucked away and it was subsequently overlooked in the confusion. Like I said, if something shady was going on the rope would have not been left draped there.

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So they've built the building around the wreckage? :rolleyes:

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth :ph34r:

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I think it was the NY COP who made a short speech.

he said it Is boeing part and held up a piece of paper.

they were sending in a cleanup team to check for TOXIC particals and human remains.

TOXIC PARTICALS????

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As far as I'm aware the location was cleared as soon as cool enough to do so and the scrap steel shipped off with almost no forensics on it.

You'd have thought there were things to learn about the failure mode of a concrete and steel structure under such circumstances, obviously not.

I think the failure mode was pretty much understood. I read somewhere that Osama Bin Laden, who had a good understanding of civil engineering, was not surprised at the way the buildings collapsed.

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I think the failure mode was pretty much understood. I read somewhere that Osama Bin Laden, who had a good understanding of civil engineering, was not surprised at the way the buildings collapsed.

Well, if you understand it, there's 1,500 architects and engineers who would like you to explain the failure mode. 1501 if you count me.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

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Maybe it wasn't lowered there. Maybe someone had previously attempted to lift it out.

I do wonder in this case if it might just be lazy workman decided to give up recovering it and go home.

However, in my view 9/11 is probably the biggest cover-up job and whitewash since JFK. There are many legitimate questions that remain unanswered the most significant, in my view, being the BBC news's ability to announce building collapses prior to them actually occurring.

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Guest eight

So they've built the building around the wreckage? :rolleyes:

I think this is going to turn out to be the start of an elaborate viral marketing campaign for Doritos or something.

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The most logical explanation is that the pulley system was an attempt by workmen to get the debris out and when that failed they'd have reported it to their superiors and moved on to the next task. They'd have been inundated and in the administrative vortex that must surely have followed the report either failed to get filed or got lost.

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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