alexw Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) So if it dropped 20% in the first two years (link please) and then recovered well afterwards then she must have been doing something right. Perhaps it wasn't inflation that cause it since we'd had a load of that in the 70s, but just old heavy industry coming to the end of its life eg. Coal mining. If inflation was the problem then these industries would have been finished off long beforehand. The VAT rate is pretty similar to the rest of Europe, there's nothing special about it that could have caused the death of all our industries that wouldn't have also affected other countries. I know you really want it to all be Thatcher's fault though so I hope you do finally find the proof that confirms what you've always believed. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/manufacturing_industry_in_uk_clip_image002_0000.gif&imgrefurl=http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/manufacturing_industry_in_uk.htm&h=312&w=407&sz=6&tbnid=B_XAphN2qCF9BM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=117&zoom=1&usg=__3MM2EqtfDHJyJzP7zhOL0KDz1Hs=&docid=S8IUmFtqFRwQLM&sa=X&ei=1JNxUdLGKpD70gXin4GQAQ&ved=0CDwQ9QEwAg You can calculate the drop from that graph via a simple bit of maths, to get the approximate figure. And that manufacturing recovered a decade later to its starting point - so what? The point is what would manufacturing have been if 20% of it had not been destroyed by the Thatcher governments economic incompetence in the first place. Even her own top policy advisors admitted it was a huge mistake to do what they did and that it caused tremendous damage. as for inflation and VAT etc you entirely miss the point. Inflation is not very good for companies but it's manageable unless it gets totally out of control (weimar type). What destroyed those companies is the policies undertaken to control that inflation, coupled with the rise of the petro-pound which nothing was done to control. And I already have the proof that I need. That your ideology means that you cannot accept the truth is no fault of mine. Edited April 19, 2013 by alexw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsox Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I'd pay a premium for British Coal if it was safely and efficiently extracted. It's never too late. I see a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 It is so far in the past you may as well blame Disraeli. Nobody after Thatcher reversed her policies. It is a given in some areas that ALL ills are attributable to Thatcher. Jack the Ripper? Attila the Hun? Hitler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I see a problem. Go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsox Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Go on. You could easily do the research yourself but a quick google: deep mined coal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It is so far in the past you may as well blame Disraeli. Nobody after Thatcher reversed her policies. It is a given in some areas that ALL ills are attributable to Thatcher. Exactly. Why didn't Labour have a plan to deal with them when they got power in 1997. Why didn't their Labour councils do something for them? Councils were flush with money between 97 and 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jareth Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 So if it dropped 20% in the first two years (link please) and then recovered well afterwards then she must have been doing something right. As well as manufacturing output recovering there are two other things that happened. Firstly individual productivity increased as output rose while numbers employed in manufacturing fell. The second and much more important thing is that businesses and industries which were uncompetitive made themselves more competitive or left the economy and were replaced with people making things people wanted.(Coal mines out, Japanese car factories in, as an example) Just looking at manufacturing output as a whole doesn't tell the entire story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Jib Fingers Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 As well as manufacturing output recovering there are two other things that happened. Firstly individual productivity increased as output rose while numbers employed in manufacturing fell. The second and much more important thing is that businesses and industries which were uncompetitive made themselves more competitive or left the economy and were replaced with people making things people wanted.(Coal mines out, Japanese car factories in, as an example) Just looking at manufacturing output as a whole doesn't tell the entire story. I wonder how much of that was down to the fact that bad businesses were allowed to go bust and the ones left had to adapt to survive. Short term pain for long term gain, with all the pain out of the way in two years. Of course we're doing the opposite now of keeping all bad businesses going and preventing any bad debt from getting written down. 5 years so far and no sign of a recovery. Of course the Keynesians will be saying that there hasn't been enough stimulus yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 You could easily do the research yourself but a quick google: deep mined coal I'm not doing homework, you made a smart Alec comment now take the time to explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsox Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'm not doing homework, you made a smart Alec comment now take the time to explain why. Is it too much for you to click on the link I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Is it too much for you to click on the link I posted? Scottish Coal who have just gone into liquidation operate only open cast mines. So please explain what your point was or just stop taking liberties with other posters messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I wonder how much of that was down to the fact that bad businesses were allowed to go bust and the ones left had to adapt to survive. Short term pain for long term gain, with all the pain out of the way in two years. Of course we're doing the opposite now of keeping all bad businesses going and preventing any bad debt from getting written down. 5 years so far and no sign of a recovery. Of course the Keynesians will be saying that there hasn't been enough stimulus yet. Just been listening to some podcasts by HS Dent. In his opinion our present economic malaise is down to changing demographics. So no amount of stimulus will change the underlying reason that the developed west economy is slowing down because the baby boomers have passed their spending years. It resonates with me and goes some way to explain the issues we are currently experiencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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