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In Mining Ruins Left By Thatcher, New Economy Struggles


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HOLA441

So if it dropped 20% in the first two years (link please) and then recovered well afterwards then she must have been doing something right.

Perhaps it wasn't inflation that cause it since we'd had a load of that in the 70s, but just old heavy industry coming to the end of its life eg. Coal mining. If inflation was the problem then these industries would have been finished off long beforehand.

The VAT rate is pretty similar to the rest of Europe, there's nothing special about it that could have caused the death of all our industries that wouldn't have also affected other countries.

I know you really want it to all be Thatcher's fault though so I hope you do finally find the proof that confirms what you've always believed.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/manufacturing_industry_in_uk_clip_image002_0000.gif&imgrefurl=http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/essentials/manufacturing_industry_in_uk.htm&h=312&w=407&sz=6&tbnid=B_XAphN2qCF9BM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=117&zoom=1&usg=__3MM2EqtfDHJyJzP7zhOL0KDz1Hs=&docid=S8IUmFtqFRwQLM&sa=X&ei=1JNxUdLGKpD70gXin4GQAQ&ved=0CDwQ9QEwAg

You can calculate the drop from that graph via a simple bit of maths, to get the approximate figure.

And that manufacturing recovered a decade later to its starting point - so what? The point is what would manufacturing have been if 20% of it had not been destroyed by the Thatcher governments economic incompetence in the first place.

Even her own top policy advisors admitted it was a huge mistake to do what they did and that it caused tremendous damage.

as for inflation and VAT etc you entirely miss the point. Inflation is not very good for companies but it's manageable unless it gets totally out of control (weimar type). What destroyed those companies is the policies undertaken to control that inflation, coupled with the rise of the petro-pound which nothing was done to control.

And I already have the proof that I need. That your ideology means that you cannot accept the truth is no fault of mine.

Edited by alexw
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HOLA446

It is so far in the past you may as well blame Disraeli.

Nobody after Thatcher reversed her policies.

It is a given in some areas that ALL ills are attributable to Thatcher.

Exactly.

Why didn't Labour have a plan to deal with them when they got power in 1997.

Why didn't their Labour councils do something for them? Councils were flush with money between 97 and 2007. 

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HOLA447

So if it dropped 20% in the first two years (link please) and then recovered well afterwards then she must have been doing something right.

As well as manufacturing output recovering there are two other things that happened. Firstly individual productivity increased as output rose while numbers employed in manufacturing fell. The second and much more important thing is that businesses and industries which were uncompetitive made themselves more competitive or left the economy and were replaced with people making things people wanted.(Coal mines out, Japanese car factories in, as an example) Just looking at manufacturing output as a whole doesn't tell the entire story.

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HOLA448

As well as manufacturing output recovering there are two other things that happened. Firstly individual productivity increased as output rose while numbers employed in manufacturing fell. The second and much more important thing is that businesses and industries which were uncompetitive made themselves more competitive or left the economy and were replaced with people making things people wanted.(Coal mines out, Japanese car factories in, as an example) Just looking at manufacturing output as a whole doesn't tell the entire story.

I wonder how much of that was down to the fact that bad businesses were allowed to go bust and the ones left had to adapt to survive. Short term pain for long term gain, with all the pain out of the way in two years.

Of course we're doing the opposite now of keeping all bad businesses going and preventing any bad debt from getting written down. 5 years so far and no sign of a recovery. Of course the Keynesians will be saying that there hasn't been enough stimulus yet.

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HOLA4412

I wonder how much of that was down to the fact that bad businesses were allowed to go bust and the ones left had to adapt to survive. Short term pain for long term gain, with all the pain out of the way in two years.

Of course we're doing the opposite now of keeping all bad businesses going and preventing any bad debt from getting written down. 5 years so far and no sign of a recovery. Of course the Keynesians will be saying that there hasn't been enough stimulus yet.

Just been listening to some podcasts by HS Dent. In his opinion our present economic malaise is down to changing demographics. So no amount of stimulus will change the underlying reason that the developed west economy is slowing down because the baby boomers have passed their spending years. It resonates with me and goes some way to explain the issues we are currently experiencing.

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