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Ackermann Says Allowing Euro To Fail Would Be Costlier

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-14/ackermann-says-euro-destruction-more-costly-than-deepening-union.html

Josef Ackermann, the former chief executive officer of Deutsche Bank AG (DBK) who now chairs Zurich Insurance Group AG, said allowing the euro to fail would be more costly than deepening the region’s fiscal and political ties.

“The destruction of the euro system would be much more expensive than the further construction,” Ackermann said in an interview in Kuwait City on April 13. “We need a united Europe to negotiate at eye level with other major regions like the United States, China, India and some other countries.”

While financial markets calmed after European Central Bank President Mario Draghi pledged in July to do whatever it takes to safeguard the euro, the currency-bloc is now in its second year of recession, battered by a debt crisis that’s forced five of its 17 members to take bailouts. Countries continue to spar over issues such as building a common fund for bank failures.

Where as the destruction of people lives and perpetual debt slavery is much more preferable?

The Euro was introduced far too early, the single currency should have been run alongside the existing Euro currencies there was no need to jump all in the Euro love bubble.

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http://www.bloomberg...ning-union.html

Where as the destruction of people lives and perpetual debt slavery is much more preferable?

The Euro was introduced far too early, the single currency should have been run alongside the existing Euro currencies there was no need to jump all in the Euro love bubble.

The single currencies indeed run side by side with the Euro, although only in non-physical form (traveller's cheques, electronic transfers, banking), for three years, from 1999 to 28 February 2002.

A better strategy would have been to introduce gold and silver coins denominated in Euro, side by side with fiat money.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-14/ackermann-says-euro-destruction-more-costly-than-deepening-union.html

Where as the destruction of people lives and perpetual debt slavery is much more preferable?

The Euro was introduced far too early, the single currency should have been run alongside the existing Euro currencies there was no need to jump all in the Euro love bubble.

Obviously keeping your own sovereign currency is much more preferable. It prevents you having to come to terms with the failings of short termism, enables you to print enough funny money to keep your criminal bankers in bonuses and pensions, enables you to destroy the value of peoples savings by stealth (look we are not Cyprus :lol: ) , and of course keep the housing Ponzi economy going for as long as you can keep getting away with it. Yes having your own currency is soooooo much better.

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The Euro is NOT the Eurozone, where we stand eye to eye with the other trading blocs.

We are in the Eurozone.

We are not in the Euro.

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Obviously keeping your own sovereign currency is much more preferable. It prevents you having to come to terms with the failings of short termism, enables you to print enough funny money to keep your criminal bankers in bonuses and pensions, enables you to destroy the value of peoples savings by stealth (look we are not Cyprus :lol: ) , and of course keep the housing Ponzi economy going for as long as you can keep getting away with it. Yes having your own currency is soooooo much better.

Indeed. The Euro shows states in their true colours - as liars and thieves.

I'd rather choose my own currency personally thanks, not via some state decree. Anything imposed using force is not wanted, by definition.

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The Euro is NOT the Eurozone, where we stand eye to eye with the other trading blocs.

We are in the Eurozone.

We are not in the Euro.

No we are not. We are in the European Union, not the Eurozone.

Eurozone:

A geographic and economic region that consists of all the European Union countries that have fully incorporated the euro as their national currency.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-14/ackermann-says-euro-destruction-more-costly-than-deepening-union.html

Where as the destruction of people lives and perpetual debt slavery is much more preferable?

The Euro was introduced far too early, the single currency should have been run alongside the existing Euro currencies there was no need to jump all in the Euro love bubble.

It's pretty much a zero sum game IMO. Changing the system is not going to magic wealth out of thin air.

It's more about how you like your pain. Short and sharp or long and dull.

The idea that abandonment of the euro is suddenly going to make everything better IMO is wrong. It will plunge the world into a deep recession and the suffering at an individual level will not change and probably over a short time period get much worse than it is at the moment.

The failure of the euro would also have significantly wider consequences for the world economy (US, China for example), which is another reason why it won't be allowed to fail, even if it means outside countries stepping in with cash to prop the whole thing up.

The bottom line is that fiscally as a group the EZ is in much better shape than the States. The key words being "as a group".

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The Euro is NOT the Eurozone, where we stand eye to eye with the other trading blocs.

We are in the Eurozone.

We are not in the Euro.

:unsure:

I think you will find we are in the EU, not the Eurozone, which is the part of the EU that uses the Euro as it's currency.

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The problem with the Euro was simple.

You can't have a shared currency withOUT shared fiscal policy.

It's all in or nothing if you want it to work.

Somehow people in Europe convinced themselves they could have one without the other, mainly because that's how they wanted it to be. Now they are at a watershed. They either go all-in or they'll be calling it a day with a couple of years.

Edit: withOUT

Edited by RufflesTheGuineaPig

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The problem with the Euro was simple.

You can't have a shared currency with shared fiscal policy.

It's all in or nothing if you want it to work.

Somehow people in Europe convinced themselves they could have one without the other, mainly because that's how they wanted it to be. Now they are at a watershed. They either go all-in or they'll be calling it a day with a couple of years.

Typo I presume: You can't have a workable shared currency without shared fiscal policy.

And, of course, they will use it as an excuse for fiscal union if we let them get away with it... and drag the UK in too.

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Typo I presume: You can't have a workable shared currency without shared fiscal policy.

Its not even perfect then. As someones sig around here said, quoting Eddie George 'Northern unemployment is an acceptable price to pay for curbing southern inflation'

Why we even have to have a national monopoly on the issue of money I dont know. It could be made far more local than that.

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The problem with the Euro was simple.

You can't have a shared currency with shared fiscal policy.

It's all in or nothing if you want it to work.

Somehow people in Europe convinced themselves they could have one without the other, mainly because that's how they wanted it to be. Now they are at a watershed. They either go all-in or they'll be calling it a day with a couple of years.

I agree, but actually there was shared fiscal policy at its creation. What happened was that the politicians failed to implement that policy by aggressively punishing those countries that ran budget deficits and that has lead to where we are today.

If the politicians had implemented the system according to the economists requirements then there would be no problem. Of course the very conception of the euro=loss of sovereignty on fiscal policy if this is the case. Classic policy of politicians wanting all of the positives and non of the negatives.

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I agree, but actually there was shared fiscal policy at its creation. What happened was that the politicians failed to implement that policy by aggressively punishing those countries that ran budget deficits and that has lead to where we are today.

If the politicians had implemented the system according to the economists requirements then there would be no problem. Of course the very conception of the euro=loss of sovereignty on fiscal policy if this is the case. Classic policy of politicians wanting all of the positives and non of the negatives.

Yes, too liberal with the handouts at the start, not sticking to the rules that were designed for good reason, countries becoming dependant on getting what they have always got plus more, the plan was that all the EU countries should be sharing the same currency, this has not happened, too many warning signals and errors been made along the way.....different countries have different histories, cultures and ways of doing things this cannot be changed overnight like ten years.....happy to accept the goodies that all benefited from in the beginning, but treats have to be repaid at some point......give and take.

A rolling stone gathers no moss....unlike the rolling snowball gathering speed and growing exponentially. ;)

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And the UK? Not being in the Euro enables the state to continue with the illusion.

Yup, indeed it does.

It's easier to be a thief, when people can't see you stealing stuff.

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You can't have a shared currency with shared fiscal policy.

It's all in or nothing if you want it to work.

IMO, even a joint fiscal policy will not help. You have only to look at the regions of the UK (or America). Once, by luck or design, part of the currency union becomes rich, it becomes almost impossible for the lagging parts to catch up, even with constant wealth transfers.

How much annual subsidy do you think Greece would need to stay competitive with Germany? Perhaps 30% of GDP? How would a region so dependent on subsidies ever develop? Even the Germans have been barely able to keep East Germany alive, even with massive wealth transfers.

It will be a political and financial catastrophe when the Euro breaks up, but as the alternative is regional imbalances and inhibited growth for ever to infinity (and beyond), it is the only sensible solution.

Edited by BigPig

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IMO, even a joint fiscal policy will not help. You have only to look at the regions of the UK (or America). Once by luck or design, part of the currency union becomes rich, it becomes almost impossible for the lagging parts to catch up, even with constant wealth transfers.

How much annual sunsidy do you think Greece would need to stay competitive with Germany ? 30% of GDP perhaps? How would a region so dependent on subsidies ever develop? In the Germans have been barely able to keep East Germany alive, even with massive wealth transfers.

It will be a political and financial catastrophe when the Euro breaks up, but as the alternative is regional imbalances and inhibited growth for ever to infinity (and beyond), it is the only sensible solution.

One assumes that Germany makes the same stuff as Greece.

Diversity is where these places score..being the same is Socialist drivel gone mad.

Whatever the state of the Euro, there is only one thing that has destroyed these countries....DEBT.

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Diversity is where these places score..

Diversity is what makes us all more prosperous from trade, but there is no way that an agricultural economy can grow at the same pace as an industrialised or servicised economy. Now if it had its own currency, the Greeks could live happily on goats cheese and olives, and tourism for ever, but because they are shackled to an industrial superpower, the value of their currency will be higher than it otherwise would, so they gradually become more and more uneconomic, require more and more transfers, which meanwhile keep wages and asset prices high, so that it makes more and more sense to buy your olives and goats cheese in Turkey.

Edited by BigPig

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Typo I presume: You can't have a workable shared currency without shared fiscal policy.

And, of course, they will use it as an excuse for fiscal union if we let them get away with it... and drag the UK in too.

well spotted. corrected.

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  • 243 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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