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Eight Million People A Month Away From Struggling To Pay Mortgage

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9985811/Eight-million-people-a-month-away-from-struggling-to-pay-mortgage.html

Around 35pc of workers, equating to 8.6m Britons, do not have enough savings put by to cover their rent or mortgage for more than a month if they lost their job, Shelter found.

Almost a fifth (18pc) of working adults who pay for their housing costs said that if they lost their job and were unable to secure another one right away, they would not have enough cash saved to pay their rent or mortgage at all.

Four-in-10 (43pc) of those questioned who have children said that they do not have enough money put away to pay for their home for more than a month and nearly a quarter (23pc) would be unable to meet their payments at all out of their savings alone.

Shelter said it is bracing itself for a "surge in demand" from people whose budgets have tightened as a recent round of benefit changes kicks in.

Extrapolating out from 2000 people that responded. Although the headline is certainly very bearish.

Why save when credit is easy? Apart from the fact you can't get credit when you have no job.

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And to think, the west used to ridicule the CCCP for having both men and women working in order to support the family, not having any savings or real wealth, and being ruled by an elite.

Edited by cashinmattress

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The much maligned SMI doesn't kick in for 13 weeks so debts would accrue pretty quickly for these people.

13 weeks.. thats 3 months.. whats the average mortgage payment these days under Zirp.. about £500?. so they go £1500 in arrears for 3 months or put that on the old credit cards until SMI kicks in. Zirp has really taken the stress out of paying the mortgage these days. My mortgage has fallen from £1400 to £200, (yeah its IO). Its like being on a extended mortgage payment holiday.

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And to think, the west used to ridicule the CCCP for having both men and women working in order to support the family, not having any savings or real wealth, and being ruled by an elite.

+1

The West's wholesale abandonment of capitalism is the biggest financial story of our generation but UK journalists appear to have no interest in reporting it.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9985811/Eight-million-people-a-month-away-from-struggling-to-pay-mortgage.html

Extrapolating out from 2000 people that responded. Although the headline is certainly very bearish.

Why save when credit is easy? Apart from the fact you can't get credit when you have no job.

It's not an extrapolation if it's a representative sample,

Peter.

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+1

The West's wholesale abandonment of capitalism is the biggest financial story of our generation but UK journalists appear to have no interest in reporting it.

Because the left seems convinced that we are living in a neo-liberal dreamland.

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Eight Million People A Month Away From Struggling To Pay Mortgage

No different to how it has always been for people, one pay day away from bare cupboards......can you imagine the numbers if BofE base rate doubled, increased by 0.5%. ;)

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I simply don't understand how people can live like that, walking the treadmill in constant fear of unexpected events. Just building up enough of a cushion to keep you going for a few months gives you flexibility in how you live your life and puts you in a position to cope with the unforeseen. You can also save on insurance if you know you have enough cash set aside to replace the essentials!

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I'm currently working through Adam Curtis blog which I only just discovered.

Just read this post which is vaguely related to the thread, or at least snowflux's post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/let_them_eat_plastic

The bloke from the middle class couple is interesting, in a HPC nutter kind of way.

Edited by opt_out

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I simply don't understand how people can live like that, walking the treadmill in constant fear of unexpected events. Just building up enough of a cushion to keep you going for a few months gives you flexibility in how you live your life and puts you in a position to cope with the unforeseen. You can also save on insurance if you know you have enough cash set aside to replace the essentials!

....so many do though, some though no fault of their own, others of their own creating.....I suppose when you have little and have money thrown in your face by those that should know better you can go and have a good time while it lasts.....many of these people have only been put back into the situation they would have been before given gifts of money to spend.....what you have never had and spent you will never lose. ;)

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There are a lot of these stories presently doing the rounds. I think people will soon discover how many things they can actually do without, in order to pay for a roof over their heads, food and utilities. Sure, it doesn't make for a fun life, but there is plenty that could be slashed from many families' budgets, I am sure. What these reports are highlighting is how much of people's current expenditure they consider to be on essentials and couldn't possibly be cut back, until they discover that life without Sky, only one iPhone and no gym membership is actually possible.

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I'm currently working through Adam Curtis blog which I only just discovered.

Just read this post which is vaguely related to the thread, or at least snowflux's post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/let_them_eat_plastic

The bloke from the middle class couple is interesting, in a HPC nutter kind of way.

There is a really interesting new book by an economist Raghuram Rajan called Fault Lines. He argues that what led to the change was not just greedy banks, but growing social inequality in the West.

And - to put it crudely - when western governments were threatened by growing protests and dissatisfaction with this inequality, they simply bought the people off by giving them a mass of cheap money.

Raghuram Rajan has an extraordinary statistic. That if you look at the the growth in real incomes between 1976 and 2007, 58% of it went to the top 1%.

Faced with this, governments made a political choice. Rather than reform society, they removed all restrictions, gave up on their moral disapproval, and allowed a system to be created by the bankers that let everyone borrow.

It was better to give in and allow the "little people" to borrow rather than let them keep on striking and threaten social order. And what's more you could make lots of money out of it.

Sounds about right. Good article. thanks.

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I'm currently working through Adam Curtis blog which I only just discovered.

Just read this post which is vaguely related to the thread, or at least snowflux's post.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/let_them_eat_plastic

The bloke from the middle class couple is interesting, in a HPC nutter kind of way.

A quote from that link -

"The next is an aspirational couple who are continually in debt. The reporter again is brimming with disapproval because the couple are being reckless. They are living beyond their means but they aren't poor.

Bad people.

But the couple - the husband especially - are amazing. He is a fantastic chparacter. He borrows money he says as a protest against those around him who are richer. "To fling away the pittance that I have is a protest"

I think that kind of thinking is still going on; people want a good standard of living, and why not? And if people aren't permitted it through what they can earn then they'll borrow, and if something goes wrong ie job loss then the thinking is ... can't pay it back if I haven't got it.

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re: acceptance of debt in modern Western societies.

I often wonder how this came about. Is the decline in religious values linked to this by any chance? All the Abrahamic faiths strongly advise against it and compare the relationship between debtor/creditor similar to slave/owner. Islam and Judaism both have some very intricate laws regarding debt and bankruptcy with many imams and rabbis arguing that modern day bankruptcy regulations contravene both shariah / halacha. Islam has some particularly strong views where the prophet muhammad refused to lead the prayers at someones funeral because the person died in a state of debt.

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re: acceptance of debt in modern Western societies.

I often wonder how this came about. Is the decline in religious values linked to this by any chance? All the Abrahamic faiths strongly advise against it and compare the relationship between debtor/creditor similar to slave/owner. Islam and Judaism both have some very intricate laws regarding debt and bankruptcy with many imams and rabbis arguing that modern day bankruptcy regulations contravene both shariah / halacha. Islam has some particularly strong views where the prophet muhammad refused to lead the prayers at someones funeral because the person died in a state of debt.

Religion is a just a matter of faith based on myth, debt however is very real, although arguably far more destructive to civilisations than religion, not many other man made concepts can boast such noteriety! ;)

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re: acceptance of debt in modern Western societies.

I often wonder how this came about. Is the decline in religious values linked to this by any chance? All the Abrahamic faiths strongly advise against it and compare the relationship between debtor/creditor similar to slave/owner. Islam and Judaism both have some very intricate laws regarding debt and bankruptcy with many imams and rabbis arguing that modern day bankruptcy regulations contravene both shariah / halacha. Islam has some particularly strong views where the prophet muhammad refused to lead the prayers at someones funeral because the person died in a state of debt.

Heavily Catholic Ireland has the third most indebted households in the OECD. 90% atheist Estonia has under half that

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I think that kind of thinking is still going on; people want a good standard of living, and why not? And if people aren't permitted it through what they can earn then they'll borrow, and if something goes wrong ie job loss then the thinking is ... can't pay it back if I haven't got it.

In those videos it seems it's now reached a 50 year ceiling. "Milf Mrs Harrison - the wife of a managing director - in her kitchen showing off everything she has bought on HP.' Inflated away and now their home, even if inherited by their kids or sold on to somone else loving debt, probably worth millions.

The other couples had every opportunity, including the couple going to the racing track and spending; complaining they had it bad compared to people with money. They just didn't want to put in the effort, but to spend all their income and more into debt.

Sympathy is thinning out for all these debt-lifestylers and people with houses worth fortunes, with debt, or older peoples debts inflated away owned outright after decades of HPI.

With younger people today have to rent at £800+ a month with much fewer options than in the past even when they don't get into debt. Debt-holics who've been enjoying a better lifestyle than the prudent for many years, and their sense of entitlement outbidding us for houses via crazy levels of debt they're happy to take on.

Banks haven't needed to pushed the debt. Nation full of idiot entitled people who've been happy to live beyond their means, especially when today there's been so much done to remedy their positions, with SMI reduced to 13 weeks, interest rates slashed, forbearance, and up until recently, easy bankruptcy terms or IVAs.

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In those videos it seems it's now reached a 50 year ceiling. "Milf Mrs Harrison - the wife of a managing director - in her kitchen showing off everything she has bought on HP.' Inflated away and now their home, even if inherited by their kids or sold on to somone else loving debt, probably worth millions.

The other couples had every opportunity, including the couple going to the racing track and spending; complaining they had it bad compared to people with money. They just didn't want to put in the effort, but to spend all their income and more into debt.

Sympathy is thinning out for all these debt-lifestylers and people with houses worth fortunes, with debt, or older peoples debts inflated away owned outright after decades of HPI.

With younger people today have to rent at £800+ a month with much fewer options than in the past even when they don't get into debt. Debt-holics who've been enjoying a better lifestyle than the prudent for many years, and their sense of entitlement outbidding us for houses via crazy levels of debt they're happy to take on.

Banks haven't needed to pushed the debt. Nation full of idiot entitled people who've been happy to live beyond their means, especially when today there's been so much done to remedy their positions, with SMI reduced to 13 weeks, interest rates slashed, forbearance, and up until recently, easy bankruptcy terms or IVAs.

That is how the system has been designed.....to put money in peoples pockets to spend, paying it back is a minor relevant secondary after thought, fine if it can be, shame if it can't...that money trickles to the top and goes towards the taxes that pay public wages and pensions....... ;)

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re: acceptance of debt in modern Western societies.

I often wonder how this came about. Is the decline in religious values linked to this by any chance? All the Abrahamic faiths strongly advise against it and compare the relationship between debtor/creditor similar to slave/owner. Islam and Judaism both have some very intricate laws regarding debt and bankruptcy with many imams and rabbis arguing that modern day bankruptcy regulations contravene both shariah / halacha. Islam has some particularly strong views where the prophet muhammad refused to lead the prayers at someones funeral because the person died in a state of debt.

No, I don't think there's much connection with religion. I think it's just that lenders have managed to come up with more and more subtle and acceptably packaged forms of debt. Credit cards, for example, were the mass marketing of the old 'on account' system of retailers which was previously only permitted to the wealthy. Credit cards were sold to the people with all sorts of snobbish associations, 'gold' cards etc in the same way that overpriced rubbish such as Stella Artois was marketed as 'reassuringly expensive'.

Also, the inflation of the 1970s led an entire generation to believe, and to pass that belief on to their children, that mortgage debt was a good thing because it was necessary to 'get on the ladder'.

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re: acceptance of debt in modern Western societies.

I often wonder how this came about. Is the decline in religious values linked to this by any chance?

when-the-penny-drops.png

Religion is a just a matter of faith based on myth

Maybe "imaginary numbers" are a myth too, but no engineer will listen to you. The post was about religious values' utility, not truth per se.

If you believe this life is the only one you'll get, what personal incentive do you have not to leave your (especially unborn) children in debt?

Heavily Catholic Ireland has the third most indebted households in the OECD. 90% atheist Estonia has under half that

Clang...

There could be any number of differences between two countries to account for a given phenomenon. What makes you choose this one? As I recall, many communist countries had little public debt (think Ceaucescu's Romania) and effectively no scope for household debt so Estonia's situation is easily explained without resorting to the religion of the population.

Much more significant is to take just one country and see how it changes over time. Most factors will be largely constant, and this makes it easier to see relationships between the few that change massively.

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There could be any number of differences between two countries to account for a given phenomenon. What makes you choose this one? As I recall, many communist countries had little public debt (think Ceaucescu's Romania) and effectively no scope for household debt so Estonia's situation is easily explained without resorting to the religion of the population.

Much more significant is to take just one country and see how it changes over time. Most factors will be largely constant, and this makes it easier to see relationships between the few that change massively.

I'm sure there are a great many differences between them. The point was, one person asserted (with no evidence) that decline in belief in sky-men correlated with higher debt. Not only is there no reason to believe that, it was a quick and easy illustration that religion might, at very best, be one part of a larger make-up (and, more likely, completely irrelevant)

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I think religion was popular when people had few material possessions were looking for hope and required collective strength in numbers having the same convictions and beliefs.

Who needs religion now when you can buy stuff to keep you happy in comfort and entertained....we have encouraged a selfish society of one-upmanship, keeping up with the joneses, comparing material external wealth to value to society. ;)

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  • 246 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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