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John The Pessimist

Pensions Hocus Pocus In The Torygraph

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7% returns assumed etc allows you to achieve £5k annuity for £4.75K outlay. Suggests to me that somebody somewhere is trying very hard to peddle pensions.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/9975266/Invest-4750-receive-5000-every-year-for-life.html

I worked that out myself 20 years ago. I spoke to 2 or 3 pension advisors ( salesmen ) and they peddled the 'you put in X' you get out ( X+Loads )....if the pension goes up 10% p.a..but what if it doesn't was my question...and it hasn't.

My own personal pension is worth less than keeping the money in a savings account!!!

Pensions if the ultimate ponzi scheme in my opinion and at some point the government will force joe bloggs to pay into it ( for their own good )....which wil effectively yet another hidden tax.

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I worked that out myself 20 years ago. I spoke to 2 or 3 pension advisors ( salesmen ) and they peddled the 'you put in X' you get out ( X+Loads )....if the pension goes up 10% p.a..but what if it doesn't was my question...and it hasn't.

My own personal pension is worth less than keeping the money in a savings account!!!

Pensions if the ultimate ponzi scheme in my opinion and at some point the government will force joe bloggs to pay into it ( for their own good )....which wil effectively yet another hidden tax.

with little or no growth worldwide, for every scheme that gets 7%, there will be another that gets -7%.

Inflation can hide this scam of course....and 2% a year target means your 7% is 5% and you dont notice, and the -7% funds are now -5%, but thats just a blip.

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Goalposts move, and people are inherently untrustworthy, especially those with whom you put your money in the hands of.

The bigger question is when is the government going to full-sale rob private and state pensions.

Invest in a broad scale in many things if you want to preserve any semblance of your wealth.

The first and best investment is to educate yourself.

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Goalposts move, and people are inherently untrustworthy, especially those with whom you put your money in the hands of.

The bigger question is when is the government going to full-sale rob private and state pensions.

Invest in a broad scale in many things if you want to preserve any semblance of your wealth.

The first and best investment is to educate yourself.

It is odd, but pension = sensible plan for the future, yet savers = hoarding.

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Hoped for growth suggested to lure you in 7%

Realistic growth 2%

Realistic growth adjusted for (true rate of ) inflation -10%

Pension pot after Government bail-in seizure some time in the next 10 years -100%

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It is odd, but pension = sensible plan for the future, yet savers = hoarding.

I think perhaps the difference is in the risk involved on a banks liability sheet.

Pensions monies means a long term liability to you and asset for the bank to gamble.

Pension funds go pop for that reason.

Savings are inherently dangerous for banks to gamble with as you can pull out at any time.

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I have a couple of work-related pensions, but like an inheritance, those and the state pension don't figure in any of my retirement planning. If they materialise I will be simply better off than anticipated.

In the meantime, and for the last 40 years I've saved like billy'o and rented, and that strategy now buys me the freedom to do the work i choose and, with luck, may in a few years provide a pension through interest and capital drawdown.

Edited by LiveinHope

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I think perhaps the difference is in the risk involved on a banks liability sheet.

Pensions monies means a long term liability to you and asset for the bank to gamble.

Pension funds go pop for that reason.

Savings are inherently dangerous for banks to gamble with as you can pull out at any time.

Yet there are extreme incentives to save into a private pension. Almost like the system has been set up to provide gambling chips for a select few..

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Guest eight

....7% of what? and over how long?...........7% growth after a lifetime of saving, doesn't look much to me. ;)

7% "growth" of the final total, not compounded? From my limited understanding a lot of funds would struggle to achieve even that.

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7% returns assumed etc allows you to achieve £5k annuity for £4.75K outlay. Suggests to me that somebody somewhere is trying very hard to peddle pensions.....

http://www.telegraph...r-for-life.html

The way I read it, it means £4.75k a year, every year for 10 years. In other words, the outlay is closer to £50k than to £5k.

It only works if you pay an enormous marginal rate of tax over a prolonged period of time. The income is then before tax, and in pounds worth under half of what they are now. There is no capital left over after you die. There is also no guarantee you will get back the amount you invested. It is guaranteed that there will be charges to pay.

This is an easy opportunity to take an advantage of. Just make sure you earn between 100k and 118k pa.

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Yet there are extreme incentives to save into a private pension. Almost like the system has been set up to provide gambling chips for a select few..

Can't argue with that.

Game theory works only works if there are set rules applicable to both parties.

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It is odd, but pension = sensible plan for the future, yet savers = hoarding.

It was ever thus. See recent articles on Shakespear being fined for hoarding when what he was probably doing was creating a pension pot for himself.

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Hoped for growth suggested to lure you in 7%

Realistic growth 2%

Realistic growth adjusted for (true rate of ) inflation -10%

Pension pot after Government bail-in seizure some time in the next 10 years -100%

You're probably right. I've always thought the 7% rate of growth is nonsense, but have presumed I'd get around inflation?

Put away 1k/month for 30 years and there should be £360k (in today's money).

Lump sum and maybe 15-20k annuity?

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It was ever thus. See recent articles on Shakespear being fined for hoarding when what he was probably doing was creating a pension pot for himself.

He hasn't been very popular with some; Reverend Gastrell couldn't wait to tear down his house.

It's all history though.

Along the same lines, stupid Ayrshire council in Scotland did not manage to complete refurbishments on Robbie Burns cottage in lovely Alloway on the 150th anniversary of the bard.

Idiots everywhere, and most of them flock to politics or ride on the back of some religion to subvert you.

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Pension pot after Government bail-in seizure some time in the next 10 years -100%

oh good, it isn't just me that's noticed that eventually this is bound to happen.

All pensions will be rolled up into one big "national pension scheme".

Which will run out of money about the time the boomers start to die off.

Edited by RufflesTheGuineaPig

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oh good, it isn't just me that's noticed that eventually this is bound to happen.

All pensions will be rolled up into one big "national pension scheme".

Which will run out of money about the tie the boomers start to die off.

I would say it already has. The pension pyramid has dwindled from 7-10 paying in for each retiree in the 1970's to maybe parity now at best.

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I worked that out myself 20 years ago. I spoke to 2 or 3 pension advisors ( salesmen ) and they peddled the 'you put in X' you get out ( X+Loads )....if the pension goes up 10% p.a..but what if it doesn't was my question...and it hasn't.

My own personal pension is worth less than keeping the money in a savings account!!!

Pensions if the ultimate ponzi scheme in my opinion and at some point the government will force joe bloggs to pay into it ( for their own good )....which wil effectively yet another hidden tax.

But think of all the Citeh spivs you've kept housed and in skiing and caribbean holidays every year.

Every cloud............

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  • 239 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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