The Moderators Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 The Moderators will be monitoring this thread. Any inappropriate language or images will be removed and if repeated then the poster will be moderated. Whatever your feelings about Mrs Thatcher this is Housepricecrash forum NOT a political forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindigger Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Her heart was in the right place - she was at least sincere and also resolute which at the time was required to get anything done. However, she was incredibly destructive and quite honestly she had no idea what the effect of certain of her changes would do. Notably those relating to globalisation/unfettered trade and capital flows. The rest is very well documented (destruction of north/manufacturing, the unions and war in the Falklands) and will be trotted out over the coming weeks but the changes relating to capital flows and the disastrous Building Societies' Act of 1986 which opened up competition between banks and buidling societies and allowed them to suck other countries' surpluses to put into our housing stock will not even get a mention. With the benefit of hindsight, I now see that some of our most serious fundamental problems were sewn under Margaret Thatcher, and to be honest I don't think either the Labour administrations since or the current coalition have any idea that they may even be a problem. That.^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 RIP. Greatest Prime Minister of the 20th century. Attlee and Churchill come nowhere, clearly. Best prime minister of the 1980s, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Dan Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 http://www.independe...ke-8564521.html It looks like the lady's not returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwick Yellow Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I don't think so (and I mean that in a thoughtful way, not in a 'you're wrong' way). Genuine long term hatred seems to be a characteristic of the left much more so than the right from my experience. Wilson, Callaghan and others were disliked intensly by the right when they were in power but the commentary when they died was respectful. Absolutely spot on; their is a visceral self-righteousness about the self-hating pseudo-intellectual left that when when challenged turns into bigotry and discriminination against those who not hold 'correct' opinions. History is full of examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I don't think so (and I mean that in a thoughtful way, not in a 'you're wrong' way). Genuine long term hatred seems to be a characteristic of the left much more so than the right from my experience. Wilson, Callaghan and others were disliked intensly by the right when they were in power but the commentary when they died was respectful. It's a sort of spite and no surprise from political movements born of envy. God rest her soul. She is in a better place with Dennis now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englebert Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Her heart was in the right place - she was at least sincere and also resolute which at the time was required to get anything done. However, she was incredibly destructive and quite honestly she had no idea what the effect of certain of her changes would do. Notably those relating to globalisation/unfettered trade and capital flows. The rest is very well documented (destruction of north/manufacturing, the unions and war in the Falklands) and will be trotted out over the coming weeks but the changes relating to capital flows and the disastrous Building Societies' Act of 1986 which opened up competition between banks and buidling societies and allowed them to suck other countries' surpluses to put into our housing stock will not even get a mention. With the benefit of hindsight, I now see that some of our most serious fundamental problems were sewn under Margaret Thatcher, and to be honest I don't think either the Labour administrations since or the current coalition have any idea that they may even be a problem. +1 Thatcher and Blair have a lot to answer for. 18 years of Tory + 13 years of Tory Lite = the mess we're in today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwick Yellow Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I don't understand.. I mean, if you ignore the mass unemployment, economic sabotage, squandering of the North Sea oil windfall, promotion of wide-boy finance over hard work and industry, the undermining of long term energy security, cut price privatization of national assets, house price bubble and council house sell-off [+add as appropriate], why could you possibly think she was a bad PM? Yes you are right that is indeed a very short list compared with the failings and downright evil of Blair, Brown and their bedfellows....................a trail of destruction that this country will probably never recover from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Towering figure of the 20th Century? A woman of little substance in a nation of even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo1968 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Absolutely spot on; their is a visceral self-righteousness about the self-hating pseudo-intellectual left that when when challenged turns into bigotry and discriminination against those who not hold 'correct' opinions. History is full of examples. Agreed. This lady climbed the slippery pole in what was truly a mans world at the time and had guts, there are very few people in this country who have achieved anywhere near enough to even give a negative comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1888 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Rule 1: do not speak ill of the dead. Rule 2. do not pretend death absolves them from misdeeds in life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Certainly a giant compared to those who came after her: Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. I would judge her legacy as net positive with a few serious mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man o' the year Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Sad that again the forum seems to be unable to cope with certain views so I can't make my feelings clear here or use the chancellor's middle name. I guess posting a link to the Wizard of Oz link I wanted to is out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Yes you are right that is indeed a very short list compared with the failings and downright evil of Blair, Brown and their bedfellows....................a trail of destruction that this country will probably never recover from. What did Blair do? - Continued privatisation? Check. - Continued deregulation of finance leading to an epic house price bubble? Check. - Kept anti-union legislation? Check. - Introduced student tuition fees? Check. - Went to war in Iraq? Check. - Introduced markets into the Health Service? Check. Like it or not, the failings of Blair and Brown were a direct result of taking conservative policies further than the conservatives dared. Unless you think the above list is an abridged version of The Communist Manifesto. It's interesting - a fair few people on this thread are complaining about the hatred that Thatcher inspires, which certainly exists. But I would suggest that whilst I can give some good reasons why a leftie such as myself might dislike Thatcher's right wing policies, it's a bit harder for right-wingers, because most of Blair and Brown's defects stem from being too in thrall to finance and 'markets'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankus Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 perhaps today should be named moderator day ....as its going to be busy for some R.I.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Certainly a giant compared to those who came after her: Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. I would judge her legacy as net positive with a few serious mistakes. I think the basic test for a PM is "did you leave the country in a better state than when you found it" Thatcher: definite yes, agree or disagree with her policies but the country was on the verge of collapse in 1979. Major: Yes. Bliar: catastrophic in so many ways, is there a better candidate for worst PM of all time? Brown: did the real damage whilst in no. 11; just plain embarrasing as PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) +1 Thatcher and Blair have a lot to answer for. 18 years of Tory + 13 years of Tory Lite = the mess we're in today. There was nothing lite about the Blair administration impo. It engaged in more wars and more crackdowns and intrusions on civil liberties than any Tory administration could ever have dreamed of getting away with. That's the beauty of 'Left Cover'. If a nominally left wing administration is dabbling in authoritarianism it can't be bad (apparently). Edited April 8, 2013 by Nuggets Mahoney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Seems her main 'mistake' was being fairly honest about her intentions. The UK public seem to prefer our leaders to lie to us. Rather strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufflesTheGuineaPig Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I mean, if you ignore the mass unemployment, economic sabotage, squandering of the North Sea oil windfall, promotion of wide-boy finance over hard work and industry, the undermining of long term energy security, cut price privatization of national assets, house price bubble and council house sell-off [+add as appropriate], why could you possibly think she was a bad PM? "And what have the Romans ever done for us?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Certainly a giant compared to those who came after her: Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. I would judge her legacy as net positive with a few serious mistakes. A Nationalist agreeing with wholesale destruction of UK heavy engineering, plus a myriad of other highly skilled manufacturing jobs A population reduced to service centre phone clerks with wages to match Destroyer of the only voice people had eg Unions (undermined by Govt shills) against uber greedy big business (which secretly offshored all excess production wealth since 1980 instead of sharing it out by disengaging wage rises from production rises (your wages should be at least DOUBLE) (You have seen with your own eyes the Political copper shills outed - who infiltrated other groups) Complete sell off of UKplc for 3 Term Political vote bagging - wonderful admirable person she was (she was forcibly removed from office) The Thatcher Legacy - Big Business ruin OUR country, dictatorially run OUR country & impoverish the population! Edited April 8, 2013 by erranta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 "And what have the Romans ever done for us?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Just wait until Alex Salmon goes! Hopefully they'll spell his name correctly! Margaret Thatcher was a great English (arguably Sth. English) Prime Minister. She destroyed Scottish industry in a way that the unions never managed. When I think of the deaths that came about due to the closure of pits in Fife, Lanark etc, it's very hard to see any positives for Scotland from her tenure. Of course, she's far from unique in that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashedOutAndBurned Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 So much pious rubbish. I don't care if Hitler, or Franco, Pinchet (her mate), Pol Pot or whoever cared deeply about what they were doing and thought it was the right thing in difficult circumstances. London-centrism with impoverished regions, seeds of an extreme housing crisis, spiv economy over real economy, deindustrialisation, McJobs over real ones, poll tax, friendships with other dictators, using the police as a private army, authoritarianism and clampdowns of alternative lifestyles, turning the working class into an underclass, suicides, spite, i'm alright jack, widening gap between rich and poor. If people want to party fair play to them. The only policy of hers I liked with was raising interest rates after her spiv-boom rather than fiddling inflation and QE. That was good. And the fact it's easier to have your own business here than across much of Europe was partly due to her adopting some liberal ideas. But overall - callous cow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 The Left will go to work to spite her, I guess? No, that would clearly be disrespectful. You have to have limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) Hopefully they'll spell his name correctly! Margaret Thatcher was a great English (arguably Sth. English) Prime Minister. She destroyed Scottish industry in a way that the unions never managed. When I think of the deaths that came about due to the closure of pits in Fife, Lanark etc, it's very hard to see any positives for Scotland from her tenure. Of course, she's far from unique in that! She was a great (if unwitting) promoter of the cause of Scottish independence. (I'd add.. economically, it's almost as if the border is not England-Scotland, it's the M25..) Edited April 8, 2013 by fluffy666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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