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British Virgin Islands - $32Tn (£21Tn)

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/offshore-secrets-offshore-tax-haven

Millions of internal records have leaked from Britain's offshore financial industry, exposing for the first time the identities of thousands of holders of anonymous wealth from around the world, from presidents to plutocrats, the daughter of a notorious dictator and a British millionaire accused of concealing assets from his ex-wife.

The leak of 2m emails and other documents, mainly from the offshore haven of the British Virgin Islands (BVI), has the potential to cause a seismic shock worldwide to the booming offshore trade, with a former chief economist at McKinsey estimating that wealthy individuals may have as much as $32tn (£21tn) stashed in overseas havens.

Have to hope they don't have a bank run.

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I do think that democracy can only have a hope of functioning if all elected politicians AND senior officials must declare on public record all assets on a rolling basis, including jurisdiction of asset. Only then can the hidden web of interests be exposed.

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"$32tn (£21tn)" ? !

"tn" as in trillion? Really?

That doesn't sound right.

Did you not wonder how everyone could be so utterly financially screwed all at once?

Where did you think all the money went?

We are reaching a point where earth will be bankrupt, a few thousand people will end up owning the planet, and everyone else will be asked to leave.

The whole thing reminds me of futurama, where the 3 scammers turn up and end up manipulating everything so they end up owning the earth. Everyone else packs into spaceships and going to live on saturn.

Just like now, no-one seems able to explain why no-one just shoots them in the face and takes everything back.

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Did you not wonder how everyone could be so utterly financially screwed all at once?

Where did you think all the money went?

We are reaching a point where earth will be bankrupt, a few thousand people will end up owning the planet, and everyone else will be asked to leave.

The whole thing reminds me of futurama, where the 3 scammers turn up and end up manipulating everything so they end up owning the earth. Everyone else packs into spaceships and going to live on saturn.

Just like now, no-one seems able to explain why no-one just shoots them in the face and takes everything back.

USA's gross domestic product: 14.99 trillion USD (2011) World Bank

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=usa+gdp

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"$32tn (£21tn)" ? !

"tn" as in trillion? Really?

That doesn't sound right.

Sounds too high to me too. But i guess 'wealth' includes savings, stocks, property held in trusts, all sorts of things.

The guardian or that greg philo crazy said back in 2010 there's £4trn of wealth held by the richest 10% in the UK, a 5% tax on that would plug the deficit. I guess with QE thats risen by a trillion or two now, so worldwide maybe its possible (if all the elite have all their wealth in tax havens, anyway)

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It will be recycled via the 'money markets' via the banks to your local friendly btl-er.

There will not be 32Tr there. That might be the value of all the 'wealth' of all the account holders - but many of those offshore accounts will include big financial firms / companies who have bases there. Plus, double and triple counting will be rife - customer A has 500M on deposit, which is collateral against a loan of 1Bn from the same bank, which he has then parked in Bank B. That makes 1.5Bn 'total' but in reality his wealth is -500M.

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No different to depositing your money in a building society. Your money is not in the branch.

Well if that's the case then the following quote isn't correct:

wealthy individuals may have as much as $32tn (£21tn) stashed in overseas havens.

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Are we going to have to go through the whole money and credit and frb thing again. Haven't seen Injin for a while....InjInnnnnn!!

So when the banks go pop here Cyprus style then they'll lose all their money anyway? Perhaps this is what the bank bailout was really about.

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Why do you think we are running a massive deficit..?

I misunderstood this paragraph:

The leak of 2m emails and other documents, mainly from the offshore haven of the British Virgin Islands (BVI), has the potential to cause a seismic shock worldwide to the booming offshore trade, with a former chief economist at McKinsey estimating that wealthy individuals may have as much as $32tn (£21tn) stashed in overseas havens.

I thought they had meant $32tn in the British Virgin Islands. Reading again I noticed they meant $32tn in all overseas tax-havens, in which case Cayman Islands and Switzerland will be also included.

BTW, do they include Britain in their list of tax-havens? They should. For non-doms Britain is a tax-haven.

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Can't be right.

Everyone in the Tory party knows it's the shirkers who've stolen all the money.

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I misunderstood this paragraph:

I thought they had meant $32tn in the British Virgin Islands. Reading again I noticed they meant $32tn in all overseas tax-havens, in which case Cayman Islands and Switzerland will be also included.

BTW, do they include Britain in their list of tax-havens? They should. For non-doms Britain is a tax-haven.

The definition could be pretty far reaching. Basically, anyone in the world with a bank account/investment in a country not their own, could be said to have stashed wealth in an "overseas tax haven".

Knowing the Guardian there will plenty of comments about seizing the money and paying of the national debt etc, assuming the UK would have a claim on the whole pot. In reality, even if it is proved how much is there is a much that the UK taxman would morally (let alone legally) have a claim on.

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The truth is that there is no wealth that is hidden from the system- for one very obvious reason- that 'wealth' can only be said to exist if it is visible to the system.

For example- suppose a billionaire were to grow nervous that his wealth was about to be confiscated for some reason- so he hires a computer genius to hack the entire banking system to wipe out all evidence of his wealth- just delete everything so that no reference could be found anywhere to that wealth.

At this point he has achieved total secrecy- no matter how hard the authorities look they will find no evidence of his wealth.

My question is this: Is he still a billionaire?

I don't think he is- because his wealth only really existed in the memory of the system- wipe that memory and the wealth no longer exists.

So there is no such thing as 'hidden wealth'- there is only wealth that the people in control do not wish to find- these two ideas are not the same.

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"$32tn (£21tn)" ? !

"tn" as in trillion? Really?

That doesn't sound right.

The figure does not mean £21Tn of British elite's money is in the BVI. It means £21Tn of the world's elite's money is in offshore accounts globally.

Edited by happy_renting

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The figure does not mean £21Tn of British elite's money is in the BVI. It means £21Tn of the world's elite's money is in offshore accounts globally.

I knew they were talking about global money, but I thought they were talking about BVI only. THAT was the misunderstanding.

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The definition could be pretty far reaching. Basically, anyone in the world with a bank account/investment in a country not their own, could be said to have stashed wealth in an "overseas tax haven".

Knowing the Guardian there will plenty of comments about seizing the money and paying of the national debt etc, assuming the UK would have a claim on the whole pot. In reality, even if it is proved how much is there is a much that the UK taxman would morally (let alone legally) have a claim on.

Fallen, moralising, troughing, bent, politicos, tinkering with laws just to favour their own wealth grabs, resigning before the public tear them limb from limb, already - World wide

If you aint got nuffink to hide, there is nuffink to fear! Tables-Turned at last they have been sitting there too long!

Another 13 Trillian $ pops up

Yahoo, Dell Swell Netherlands' $13 Trillion Tax Haven

Inside Reindert Dooves's home, a 17th- century, three-story converted warehouse along the Zaan canal in suburban Amsterdam, a 21st-century Internet giant is avoiding taxes.

The bookkeeper's home office doubles as the headquarters for a Yahoo! Inc. (YHOO) offshore unit. Through this sun-filled, white- walled room, Yahoo has taken advantage of the law to quietly funnel hundreds of millions of dollars in global profits to island subsidiaries, cutting its worldwide tax bill.

>>> the rest

http://www.bloomberg...-tax-haven.html

Amazing - Dutch Parliament worried others may declare war on them - just shows how big a deal this is.

ING (Biggest Bank in World - you never heard of) is being carved up and quietly sold off all over the World

- Banksters trying to hide their 'bent' laundering tracks?

Hopefully this will lead to all the firms of City Bankers and Lawyyers who stuff their own accounts helping all these 'legal' evasions.

Then it's revenge for all those poor and disabled who have been pushed into suicide!

Edited by erranta

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There will not be 32Tr there. That might be the value of all the 'wealth' of all the account holders - but many of those offshore accounts will include big financial firms / companies who have bases there. Plus, double and triple counting will be rife - customer A has 500M on deposit, which is collateral against a loan of 1Bn from the same bank, which he has then parked in Bank B. That makes 1.5Bn 'total' but in reality his wealth is -500M.

So what you are saying is that there is minus 10 trillion hidden away in offshore bank accounts? :huh:

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  • 242 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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