New Propertypal

[PropertyPalPal]

Hmmh. On Monday Shooter marked over 80 properties as updated to POA. Now they appear at the top of the updates section and they have got their old prices back on again . You can see this from the history info.

http://www.propertypal.com/search?sort=updatedHigh&sta=forSale&page=0&term=211&pageSize=30&pt=residential

a way round the rules?

Hmm. Interesting, will look into that one and get back to you. Could be a glitch at our end, they don't add manually, so if there was a problem collecting price data from their site could have caused it. Let me trawl through some server logs.

Paul.

[2buyornot2buy]

On the whole I like the new update - the only thing I don't like is the fact that when a property goes "sold" the price change data is gone.

Would be good to be able to look at the changes in asking price before sold.

I have to use google cache to get this.

[Bergy100]

Hmm. Interesting, will look into that one and get back to you. Could be a glitch at our end, they don't add manually, so if there was a problem collecting price data from their site could have caused it. Let me trawl through some server logs.

Paul.

Could you take a look at the first non-featured property in this search? It says it is updated in the last hour but I don't see a price change and it says it was added on Feb 28th.

http://www.propertypal.com/property-for-sale/bt36/sort-updatedHigh

[PropertyPalPal]

Could you take a look at the first non-featured property in this search? It says it is updated in the last hour but I don't see a price change and it says it was added on Feb 28th.

http://www.propertypal.com/property-for-sale/bt36/sort-updatedHigh

Just checked there. Was already in our system previously, and changed status from Sale Agreed to for Sale.

Paul.

[PropertyPalPal]

On the whole I like the new update - the only thing I don't like is the fact that when a property goes "sold" the price change data is gone.

Would be good to be able to look at the changes in asking price before sold.

I have to use google cache to get this.

When it goes sale agreed, think it is still there. e.g.: http://www.propertypal.com/14-somerset-park-coleraine/221907. When you get the "oops, property no longer available" that's a taken off the market / complete removal by the agent.

Whilst we could display information on that "gone" page, we don't typically as the property is no longer being marketed,

Paul.

[2buyornot2buy]

When it goes sale agreed, think it is still there. e.g.: http://www.propertypal.com/14-somerset-park-coleraine/221907. When you get the "oops, property no longer available" that's a taken off the market / complete removal by the agent.

Whilst we could display information on that "gone" page, we don't typically as the property is no longer being marketed,

Paul.

It looks like for sales agreed it still shows a price history. For sold it just gets wiped.

[PropertyPalPal]

It looks like for sales agreed it still shows a price history. For sold it just gets wiped.

So it does. Will give you a shout back via PM when it is fixed, looks like a bug.

[2buyornot2buy]

So it does. Will give you a shout back via PM when it is fixed, looks like a bug.

Cheers

[squire]

So it does. Will give you a shout back via PM when it is fixed, looks like a bug.

Excellent! I noticed this myself but thought it was an intended decision to not show the price after it goes to 'Sold' status.

[Bergy100]

The flaw in the system exploited?

http://www.propertypal.com/12-sandyknowes-park-glengormley-newtownabbey/227410#photo-10

A £5 increase.

[PropertyPalPal]

The flaw in the system exploited?

http://www.propertypal.com/12-sandyknowes-park-glengormley-newtownabbey/227410#photo-10

A £5 increase.

Certainly looks strange. We are reporting this as a bug, and considering the walls have ears, I'm not going to discuss how its solved.

Paul.

[2buyornot2buy]

Could you bring back the choice to view 10 20 or 30 properties per page. It seems to have disappeared and I really like the 30 option

The 30 option really was handy.

[squire]

If I do a search and rate by popularity, does it order by the properties I have rated highest or does it take into account how all users rate properties?

[PropertyPalPal]

If I do a search and rate by popularity, does it order by the properties I have rated highest or does it take into account how all users rate properties?

The popularity algorithm doesn't currently take ratings in consideration. It's worked out by our own algorithm, again which we can't discuss.. Ratings is a private thing that is not publicly displayed or used as a ranking factor.

Paul.

[ravedave]

No that was us - we thought that the inclusion of checkboxes was asking another thing of the user, and we were somewhat second guessing the nature of the enquiry. What are your thoughts on it?

I preferred the checkboxes as I guess most queries would be those which were previously defined as(I think):

1. What is the current offer?

2. Can I arrange a viewing?

3. Can you send me a brochure? *

4. Free text box.

* Actually for this one, I've taken a look at your printer friendly version and it omits the statistics section. Is there any way this can be included back into the printer friendly version? I don' think there is any benefit from getting a brochure from an EA, is there? I think they mostly now send through the brochure as an attached PDF rather than a hard copy through the post.

[PropertyPalPal]

I preferred the checkboxes as I guess most queries would be those which were previously defined as(I think):

1. What is the current offer?

2. Can I arrange a viewing?

3. Can you send me a brochure? *

4. Free text box.

* Actually for this one, I've taken a look at your printer friendly version and it omits the statistics section. Is there any way this can be included back into the printer friendly version? I don' think there is any benefit from getting a brochure from an EA, is there? I think they mostly now send through the brochure as an attached PDF rather than a hard copy through the post.

All good points. We open the door for the EA to market to the customer via traditional mediums if they so wish with point 3, and tbh, if I was in the Estate Agency trade I'd be keen to include a beautiful covering letter, envelope, business card etc. and touch base with a potential vendor as there is something personal about the post; however, that's just me, and yours is a valid point in that many of them fire out a PDF for convenience.

We'll have a look at the enquiry form checkboxes discussion internally again, and see if this should make the list for the next set of amendments.

Some of this stuff is great guys, so appreciate the heads up on your thoughts. If there's anything you'd rather not publicly share here we've an email address you can reply to as well - just use feedback@propertypal.com

[BelfastVI]

Property Pal, like property News are paid for by the vendor. The objective of the paying coustomer in using any of these portals is to improve their chance of a sale. It donst affect me in the new build sector but I always thought the dating of property and the price history detered interest in stock that had been on for a while.

[Bergy100]

Property Pal, like property News are paid for by the vendor. The objective of the paying coustomer in using any of these portals is to improve their chance of a sale. It donst affect me in the new build sector but I always thought the dating of property and the price history detered interest in stock that had been on for a while.

Can't agree with that at all - its very useful in discovering little tricks, like this one that popped up on my search this morning. A new build on for almost a year without selling at £165k - suddenly upped to £179K in time for spring.

It's only fair people are able to see this type of shennanigans.

http://www.propertypal.com/site16-lismore-jordanstown-newtownabbey/190042

[ravedave]

Could you bring back the choice to view 10 20 or 30 properties per page. It seems to have disappeared and I really like the 30 option

+1. I'd also like this one back too, please, if possible?

[BelfastVI]

Can't agree with that at all - its very useful in discovering little tricks, like this one that popped up on my search this morning. A new build on for almost a year without selling at £165k - suddenly upped to £179K in time for spring.

It's only fair people are able to see this type of shennanigans.

http://www.propertypal.com/site16-lismore-jordanstown-newtownabbey/190042

Whilst, in the current climate it seams bizarre tell my why is increasing the asking price by £14k any sort of Shennanigans. It may be fool-hearty but what is wrong with it?

[Bergy100]

Whilst, in the current climate it seams bizarre tell my why is increasing the asking price by £14k any sort of Shennanigans. It may be fool-hearty but what is wrong with it?

In your own words you call it "bizarre" and fool-hearty" which is most likely tempered language. Doesn't it also fit the definition of shenanigans though?

"Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief."

You ask me what is wrong with it? I see it as a transparent attempt to maximise profit for the builder. Whilst I accept the builder is within his/her rights to try and maximise profit, this type of sales technique could result in harmful consequences for potential purchasers. They could end up in almost instant negative equity given it is likely - imo - that if the price increase is unsuccessful, the property will be reduced back down to the original price it already did not sell at for almost 12 months.

In the context of the debate around the price history being displayed on property pal - it therefore is useful to be able to see this information publically displayed - as one can only speculate as to if I called up about this house today, would I be informed it was selling for £165K only a week ago.

[BelfastVI]

In your own words you call it "bizarre" and fool-hearty" which is most likely tempered language. Doesn't it also fit the definition of shenanigans though?

"Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief."

You ask me what is wrong with it? I see it as a transparent attempt to maximise profit for the builder. Whilst I accept the builder is within his/her rights to try and maximise profit, this type of sales technique could result in harmful consequences for potential purchasers. They could end up in almost instant negative equity given it is likely - imo - that if the price increase is unsuccessful, the property will be reduced back down to the original price it already did not sell at for almost 12 months.

In the context of the debate around the price history being displayed on property pal - it therefore is useful to be able to see this information publically displayed - as one can only speculate as to if I called up about this house today, would I be informed it was selling for £165K only a week ago.

A vendor is untitled to lower the asking price of a property. I think all will agree with that,

Equally, A vendor is untitled to increase the asking price of a property. I can't see how one move can be seen as acceptable and the other described as 'shenanigans'.

[Bergy100]

A vendor is untitled to lower the asking price of a property. I think all will agree with that,

Equally, A vendor is untitled to increase the asking price of a property. I can't see how one move can be seen as acceptable and the other described as 'shenanigans'.

I did highlight the house builder was entitled to try and maximise his profit in my last post. Which is what's going on in this case, I think we can both agree.

Without splitting hairs over the word "shenanigans" even further - though you did use similar wording in your reaction as I pointed out - clearly this looks like an attempt to to cash in during the fabled ( recently) spring bounce. If I called about this house tomorrow, in your experience do you think I would be informed that the house was up for sale at £165k last week but I missed the boat and it will now cost me £180K?

Personally I have my doubts - which btw some would define as deceitful and causing (future) discomfort - again fitting the description shenanigans - sorry I can't let it go.

There clearly is no reason in the current climate to have upped this by 15K and as we both know there is a good chance some people will view this house not knowing it was available £15k less for almost a year - which getting back to the initial point is why the history is beneficial on property pal - even on new builds. Surely I have persuaded you on this at least?

[BelfastVI]

I did highlight the house builder was entitled to try and maximise his profit in my last post. Which is what's going on in this case, I think we can both agree.

Without splitting hairs over the word "shenanigans" even further - though you did use similar wording in your reaction as I pointed out - clearly this looks like an attempt to to cash in during the fabled ( recently) spring bounce. If I called about this house tomorrow, in your experience do you think I would be informed that the house was up for sale at £165k last week but I missed the boat and it will now cost me £180K?

Personally I have my doubts - which btw some would define as deceitful and causing (future) discomfort - again fitting the description shenanigans - sorry I can't let it go.

There clearly is no reason in the current climate to have upped this by 15K and as we both know there is a good chance some people will view this house not knowing it was available £15k less for almost a year - which getting back to the initial point is why the history is beneficial on property pal - even on new builds. Surely I have persuaded you on this at least?

A vendor is free to lower and increase the price. We all agree on that. This service (PP & PN) is paid for by the vendor. The service is there to aid the sale of the house.

I am not a fan of pricing in £x to knock off. We price our houses at what we believe they will sell at and generally acheive that. In my experience there will not be a pricing history to current new build properties. If a particular type is slow future releases will be less or phased out.

I dont think seeing that a house has dropped in price by 15% would attract me to it. in fact it may have the opposite effect. As a vender I would be casuous of lowering prices if purchasers were going to see it. Therefore it could actually prevent me doing it. Having to lower prices on a site shows me that that development is having problems.

I dont agree with PP showing the price history and I believe it actually works against both parties and particularly the vendor (who pays for the service).

If they were to do this on new build I would probably stop using them. This is not because I want to fool anyone. It is simply I want to be able to react to and ammend and pricing mistakes we may make. If we open a site and somehow get the pricing wrong (which thankfully hasnt happened)I want to be able to adjust that without everyone knowing that we had to lower prices.

Equally, if the site was selling well I would (some day) want to increase the prices if I believed the market could take it. particularly if we were selling at a loss or break even. I would not do that on releaced stock but on the next release. Again, perhaps surprisingly this may not be something I want to advertise.

Edited April 7, 2013 by BelfastVI

[2buyornot2buy]

I can completely get where you are coming from VI and understand your aversion to price discovery. I imagine that insurance companies felt the same when comparison sites were first launched, still it’s hard to argue that society in general doesn’t benefit from this type of price discovery.

Transactions are obviously two way streets and PN and PP just facilitate the sale. Yes the vendor pays for the service but ultimately there would been no vendor without a customer.

We are the only region not to offer LR prices on an individual basis. This is really unacceptable. I understand there are still ways to work the system, particularly from a new build perspective where builders in England and Wales submit inaccurate readings (fictitious incentives anyone) to try and present a new development in a certain light. It wouldn’t be like builders and EAs here to obfuscate… but we whether you like it or not we live in a society that values consumer rights over that of the vendor – the vast majority of legislation being consumer centric. Price discovery helps most involved in the transaction with the vendor and EA being the only losers.

I think PP should offer price correction history on new builds. Property Bee already allows this. The vendor pays for the service but at the end of the day it all comes down to which site had the features the customer want, if PN or PP don’t provide the features I want then I will use someone else. I personally think NI will, eventually, get access to LR figures. Do you think you think you’ll throw your toys out of the pram when they do or wll you accept that N.I. had to move with the times and offer a little bit of parity with our neighbours?