fluffy666 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'm sure you can. However call me paranoid but I don't take at face value anything that I haven't seen with my own eyes. Anything. You could say I'm the ultimate empiricist - although you probably wouldn't choose those exact words..... I prescribe 3 tabs of LSD and half a kilo of magic mushrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I prescribe 3 tabs of LSD and half a kilo of magic mushrooms. I love you Fluffy. I tell you what, that battery acid doesn't half warm your cockles. You should try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 There are lots of blind opinions being spouted here about there being no water problem looming. The water industry and the Royal Society of Chemistry (both of which I am involved in) see this as a major issue. To get some idea of how little fresh water there is have a look at: http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthwherewater.html Then look at how little is accessible. Then consider how much of this is safe to drink with minimal treatment. Around the world aquifers are being drained, water tables lowered and groundwater contaminated. Just because it rains a lot in the UK does not mean on a global scale things are fine. They're not even fine in the UK. (edit speeling) In 2011 we were detecting Salt water intrusion into boreholes 50km inland. I heard similar stories over on the West Coast of Saudi. I bet the same issue is occuring across the whole Middle East, North Africa, Meditteranean region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Its ruinous, intensive, industrial agriculture that is the major problem largely producing industrial processed foods which make us diabetic and fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Its ruinous, intensive, industrial agriculture that is the major problem largely producing industrial processed foods which make us diabetic and fat. Biofuels can be added to that list depleting water resources. Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 He isn't, but I will. It's amazing how privatization of anything guarantees scarcity. It even works with money! There isn't and never will be a shortage of water, except one that is artificially constructed for the enrichment of a few at the expense of many. Really, how is China going to continually support 1.3bn people there are numerous reports which highlight China's water problems. Yes there is undoubtedly enough water, the problem is getting it to were it's needed and of course removing the salt from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Biofuels can be added to that list depleting water resources. Madness. Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to produce fertilisers Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to run farming machinery Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to obtain fresh water ... Obtain 10 units of biofuels .. Profit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Zerohedge is even worse than the DM when it comes to scaremongering. http://water.org/water-crisis/water-facts/water/ 780m lack access to basic water. http://www.inweh.unu.edu/WaterSecurity/documents/WaterSecurity_FINAL_Aug2012.pdf he message that emerges today in thereports of water experts worldwide is one of caution and urgency with respect to how the world might prepare for and act to prevent a potential freshwater crisis with respect to supply and quality. The authors of this important and timely book are experts in a broad range of water issues. Together, they make it clear that there is no question that water scarcity is becoming a major issue on our planet. The most important problems are all well-known. These include, inter alia : a rapidly growing population with associated changes in lifestyle and consumption patterns; competition between sectors, such as industry, agriculture and energy for precious land and water resources; inadequate access to water supply and sanitation services for what is now becoming known as the ‘bottom billion’ on this planet; the failure to adequately address the issue of indigenous water rights and include marginalized populations in water decision-making processes; matters related to environmental protection; and, growing tension over transboundary water issues. All of these problems will to some extent be magnified by the growing realization that past and current hydrological patterns will no longer be sufficient or a reliable guide for dealing with future hydro-climatic scenarios. Water policy experts maintain that we must respond simultaneously to all these issues if we are to avoid a crisis of scarcity in many places in the world. Many places, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa or West Asia and North Africa, are already facing critical water shortages. As some of these nations are already politically unstable, such crises may have regional repercussions that extend well beyond their political boundaries. But even in politically stable regions, the status quo may very well be disturbed first and most dramatically by the loss of stability in hydrological patterns. http://phys.org/news/2012-09-world-crisis-priority.html EnlargeA woman collects drinking water in plastic pots from a community tap in Bangalore in March 2012. A rapidly worsening water shortage threatens to destabilize the planet and should be a top priority for the UN Security Council and world leaders, a panel of experts said in a report Monday. A rapidly worsening water shortage threatens to destabilize the planet and should be a top priority for the UN Security Council and world leaders, a panel of experts said in a report Monday. The world's diminishing water supply carries serious security, development and social risks, and could adversely affect global health, energy stores and food supplies, said the report titled "The Global Water Crisis: Addressing an Urgent Security Issue." https://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/scarcity.shtml Water scarcity already affects every continent. Around 1.2 billion people, or almost one-fifth of the world's population, live in areas of physical scarcity, and 500 million people are approaching this situation. Another 1.6 billion people, or almost one quarter of the world's population, face economic water shortage (where countries lack the necessary infrastructure to take water from rivers and aquifers).Water scarcity is among the main problems to be faced by many societies and the World in the XXIst century. Water use has been growing at more than twice the rate of population increase in the last century, and, although there is no global water scarcity as such, an increasing number of regions are chronically short of water. Water scarcity is both a natural and a human-made phenomenon. There is enough freshwater on the planet for six billion people but it is distributed unevenly and too much of it is wasted, polluted and unsustainably managed. It appears the Daily Mail is everywhere isn't it? And what reports are saying there isn't a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to produce fertilisers Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to run farming machinery Burn 5 units of fossil fuels to obtain fresh water ... Obtain 10 units of biofuels .. Profit!! In comparision a 3MW wind turbine taking up 600m2 (includes access road can produce enough electricity to synthesis 750,000 litres of ammonia per year which can be used as a diesel substitute in trucks, tractors and buses. 750,000 litres of ammonia = 400,000 litres diesel. In contrast 600m2 of oil seed might give you 250 litres of Veg oil minus the inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 a.k.a. 'Crock Pot' (Hmmm.. the Dune universe has interstellar travel, but shipping water down to the surface of a planet is clearly beyond them..) Are you mad?! That would kill the worms! Remember: the spice must flow! (Also: walk without rhythm.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Monk Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't understand this at all. Where has all this water gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellerkat Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't understand this at all. Where has all this water gone? Out of the aquifers which take millennia to fill and into the atmosphere. And then dumped on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't understand this at all. Where has all this water gone? The water hasn't gone anywhere, once it's back in the sea it's unusable by us which is the problem. We have less usable water on the planet, not that it's gone anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfp123 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't understand this at all. Where has all this water gone? most of the fresh water (70-80%) goes on agriculture. more people on the planet more food needed more water being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trampa501 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You seem to have missed the point in the article where it refers to clean water. By that I assume they mean water that is fit for agricultural purposes and conversion into drinking water. Desalination may address the issue of drinking water but unless an infinitely cheap source of energy is found it isn't scalable for agricultural purposes. Take Saudi Arabia. It has blown it's fossil water resources. I used to take samples from 'fresh water' boreholes with a salt content of 9000ppm Now desalination is feasible for 22 million people for drinking water whilst they have the resources to fuel the desalination plants. But it won't provide for agriculture and thus Saudi in 5 years goes from 100% self sufficient in wheat to 100% reliant on imports. So, may be why Saudi are to spend umpteen billions on this... solar power project Saudi Arabia is seeking investors for a $109 billion plan to create a solar industry that generates a third of the nation’s electricity by 2032, according to officials at the agency developing the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Any one read "Dune"? fat gingernut with a power complex, its almost like going back to 1992 (except the Harkonnen dont speak welsh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOliver Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) most of the fresh water (70-80%) goes on agriculture. more people on the planet more food needed more water being used. and of that most goes into meat, especially beef production. ie this link (may not work in Chrome) or this one http://www.waterfootprint.org/Reports/Hoekstra-2012-Water-Meat-Dairy.pdf Hope this water crisis will if not end then reduce meat production. Edited March 8, 2013 by JOliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okaycuckoo Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 and of that most goes into meat, especially beef production. ie thislink (may not work in Chrome) Hope this water crisis will if not end then reduce meat production. Interesting. Wonder how much of that water is rainfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) and of that most goes into meat, especially beef production. ie this link (may not work in Chrome) or this one http://www.waterfoot...-Meat-Dairy.pdf Hope this water crisis will if not end then reduce meat production. I'd be interested to see similar stats for grain production though, Industrial agriculture is heavily subsidised, without subsidy it wouldn't be viable to feed grain to cattle. Less than 19% of the USA is arable land (suitable for growing row crops) — and much of that only because of gigantic, dams and water projects that irrigate the desert at massive taxpayer cost. Yet ruminants can graze almost anywhere (not the desert obviously). Pasture doesn't necessarily mean taking land away from agriculture. I suspect that grazing ruminants might also repair the soil. To be frank its a complex issue, and I doubt we can feed the world entirely from grass reared grazing animals, (and probably haven't been able to do so for some time) and fish is increasingly out of the question due to overfishing and pollution. In my view humans require meat protein for good health, and its increasingly becoming a luxury. Edited March 8, 2013 by Secure Tenant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 fat gingernut with a power complex, its almost like going back to 1992 (except the Harkonnen dont speak welsh) Neither does Neil Kinnock, though his wife does (a bit, and not very well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfar Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well ****** me Rodney there is a reason to live in old blighty after all, we will be millionaires. Its not like we need new technology to solve this problem. Just build more reservoirs in places were it rains a lot, America has plenty of spare land to do this, we in the UK are going to be fine. If there isn't a solution then not to be harsh but its a self solving puzzle as people die off to sustainable levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) The water hasn't gone anywhere, once it's back in the sea it's unusable by us which is the problem. We have less usable water on the planet, not that it's gone anywhere. Wiki is your friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cycle Don't they teach this at school any more ? Edited March 8, 2013 by stormymonday_2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Wiki is your friend http://en.wikipedia....iki/Water_cycle Don't they teach this at school any more ? Thing is, it's mostly the ancient natural aquifers that are being used up - much like the problem we had in the uk last year, only more so. Sure, we can raise money to drill wells in africa - but once that water is gone, no one is going to pay to pipe it in from scotland. Same as the peak oil crowds perspective - sure its filling up, according to some quicker than others... but tapping the water table only lasts till it's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedupTeddiBear Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 There's an interesting book enttled The Logic of Failure. One of the interesting scenarios it discusses is how we ****** up africa by drilling wells. Once that groundwater has gone, been spunked at an astonishing rate that allows the local societies to bloom - then its suddenly curtains, and the populations are not just decimated, but lucky if 1 in 10 survive. It's not likely to be a massive problem in northern europe, but there is a good chance of total population collapse in other areas. Most African countries rely on huge reservoirs (e.g. Kariba, Gariep, Katse etc). People around Kariba are more worried about flooding than falljng water levels. These are dependent on rainfall, not groundwater and at present, the water level is much as it was 60 years ago - apart from the effects of climate change. SOME places rely on boreholes and wells but this is the exception rather than the rule. Can't see how they are about to run out of water unless the water purification works pack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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