Moving To Ni From Canada. Any Tips?

[Novamike]

Hi

New to this forum. What a wealth of info.

Anyway, I won't bore you but just the basic facts.

My wife (originally from Lisburn), myself (English) and our two boys are moving back to NI after spending the last 8 years in Canada (NS). Too long to have any detailed knowledge of how the UK/ NI works but short enough to kinda think we still know a bit!

Seems like a few things have been going on in the property market since we left........

It"s funny, being in North America for so long certainly gives you some perspective on what many may take for granted in the UK (god please give me a M&S sarnie, a reasonably priced bottle of wine and food without orange plastic cheese).

Can anyone give me a few tips on the general housing market (looking to buy a house in Lisburn/ south Belfast), economy, anything really as a (somewhat newby).

We're visiting next week to get a good look around, perhaps see some new builds etc.

Thanks.

[Unexpected]

Hi, and welcome.

Did you and your missus emigrate from the UK and been in Nova Scotia for the past 8 years?

Sorry, can't provide any tips about NI. I think house prices have crashed there though so thats got to be good. If the economy and jobs aren't up to much in NI would you consider anywhere else in the UK?

[long time lurking]

You will get a better response if you post here http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=52

[Novamike]

Hi, and welcome.

Did you and your missus emigrate from the UK and been in Nova Scotia for the past 8 years?

Sorry, can't provide any tips about NI. I think house prices have crashed there though so thats got to be good. If the economy and jobs aren't up to much in NI would you consider anywhere else in the UK?

Yes we emigrated 8 years ago and have had a wonderful time but it's now time to come back. We have consifered other areas (Scotland/ North of England etc) but family around is a big draw. We're also lucky in that we can continue our business in NI.

One of the things i will need to catch up on is the Real Estate system in the UK as the North American System is so different. Here, buyers and Sellers are usually represented and fees are quite a bit different as well. For example a buyer will pay a Deed Transfer tax (usually 1.5%) and Lawyer fees, but that is it (no stamp duty), whereas the seller will usually pay Real Esate fees to a Realtor in the region of 5%.

Fortunately/ unfortunately, there hasn't been a property crash here (partly due to stricter lending legislation).

When we first came, the lure of a couple of acres and large square footage was very appealing. This fades over time and a bit of infurstructure would be good!

One area i would like a bit of advice on is the sale to purchase %- what is acceptable and 'norm'; here the sale price is generally around 3% lower than teh asking price.

[Satscene]

Yes we emigrated 8 years ago and have had a wonderful time but it's now time to come back. We have consifered other areas (Scotland/ North of England etc) but family around is a big draw. We're also lucky in that we can continue our business in NI.

One of the things i will need to catch up on is the Real Estate system in the UK as the North American System is so different. Here, buyers and Sellers are usually represented and fees are quite a bit different as well. For example a buyer will pay a Deed Transfer tax (usually 1.5%) and Lawyer fees, but that is it (no stamp duty), whereas the seller will usually pay Real Esate fees to a Realtor in the region of 5%.

Fortunately/ unfortunately, there hasn't been a property crash here (partly due to stricter lending legislation).

When we first came, the lure of a couple of acres and large square footage was very appealing. This fades over time and a bit of infurstructure would be good!

One area i would like a bit of advice on is the sale to purchase %- what is acceptable and 'norm'; here the sale price is generally around 3% lower than teh asking price.

Hi, and Welcome!!

a good starting point would be here http://www.propertynews.com/homesearch.php?s=56868828

and here http://www.propertypal.com/

just enter Lisburn in the search

if you find something interesting go here http://lpsni.gov.uk/vListDCV/districts.asp where you`ll find a rough guide to rateable/capital value of that particular house.

At the moment i`d head well south of those valuations, some here reckon 10-20% lower

Being close proximity to Belfast Lisburn property prices have held up well, as have surrounding areas such as Hillsborough and Moira

[Eddie_George]

All I can say is that you seem to have timed it right. You should be able to pick up a bargain. Something that the rest of us in the UK can't do!

[Deccos]

Yes we emigrated 8 years ago and have had a wonderful time but it's now time to come back. We have consifered other areas (Scotland/ North of England etc) but family around is a big draw. We're also lucky in that we can continue our business in NI.

One of the things i will need to catch up on is the Real Estate system in the UK as the North American System is so different. Here, buyers and Sellers are usually represented and fees are quite a bit different as well. For example a buyer will pay a Deed Transfer tax (usually 1.5%) and Lawyer fees, but that is it (no stamp duty), whereas the seller will usually pay Real Esate fees to a Realtor in the region of 5%.

Fortunately/ unfortunately, there hasn't been a property crash here (partly due to stricter lending legislation).

When we first came, the lure of a couple of acres and large square footage was very appealing. This fades over time and a bit of infurstructure would be good!

One area i would like a bit of advice on is the sale to purchase %- what is acceptable and 'norm'; here the sale price is generally around 3% lower than teh asking price.

If i had any advice it would be to take your time. We returned home a number of years ago and by far and away the best decision was to rent. It can take a long time to get to know an area. You can be fairly sure that during your rental period the only way property prices are going is down IMO. Renting has saved me a fortune and saved me buying in an area that i thought was suitable only to have my eyes opened.

[Novamike]

Many thanks for your sound advice and especially for the links- very informative. It appears that the rateable value does undercut the listing prices and is a more realistic valuation: Please correct me if i wrong.

One of the things we will have to get used to during a possible house hunting trip (although, as you say Deccos, renting may be the short term answer) is the difference in Real Estate care/ service. Am i right in saying that the system in NI for house viewing is that a time is arranged by the EA and the property is shown by the vendor (this seems very strange after our Canadian experience). Surely this is a conflict of interest? Do EAs not represent in any capacity, the buyer?

We've contacted a couple of EA and no reply. Is this standard service?

Also interesting to note are poster's slight preferences to the market having some way to bottom out over the next few months.

Does anyone know the options when buying a new build as to heating options (Oil/ Gas/ electric etc). Do you have options or is the system set?

[long time lurking]

Do EAs not represent in any capacity, the buyer?

Nope they are payed by the vendor so their obligation is solely to the vendor ,so they will try and get as much money out of the buyer by fair means or foul

This sort of game is standard practice with some EA`s so beware http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=187927

[YoungFTB]

I'd advise renting for the first 6 months, house prices are expected to continue to fall over the next 12 months so don't rush into buying as house prices won't be going up anytime soon.

Read all the topics in the NI forum, you'll get a good feel for the market after a week of reading, auctions and repos may also be an option for you depending on if you're looking for a project.

Do you know what your budget is? If you have a house in canada have you sold it yet?

[Novamike]

I'd advise renting for the first 6 months, house prices are expected to continue to fall over the next 12 months so don't rush into buying as house prices won't be going up anytime soon.

Read all the topics in the NI forum, you'll get a good feel for the market after a week of reading, auctions and repos may also be an option for you depending on if you're looking for a project.

Do you know what your budget is? If you have a house in canada have you sold it yet?

Hi

We're looking around the £300-330k range. We've been very fortunate with the exchange rate (which was 2.5CAD$ to the pound when we came out and is now around 1.6CAD$ -£).

Looking around the upper malone/ north east Lisburn area.

In Canada we have been heavily involved in the Real Estate/ relocation/ immigration sector (and can continue to do so from NI); selling our house won't be a problem as the market here is very robust and sales usually only take 4-5 week from offer to completion (the 'exchange of contracts' is at the beginning of the process, unlike the UK).

As you suggest, i've had a good look at the different topics and the information/ depth of knowledge is fantastic. It certainly has helped us form a more realistic picture. I can't believe that some prices advertised are from 1-2 years ago and haven't been amended, and often bear no relation to the RV- in some instances i've seen listed prices at double the RV!.

We're out in Belfast next week to have a good look around and hope to move back around June/ July. I'll have to remember to drive on the wrong (right) side of the road- i still get UK moments when i get in the wrong (right) side of the car.

A question if any one can shed any light on this: In your opinion is (in general) there better value in buying a 'used' house, a referbished house or a new build/ construction (say, of the same sq f, same area etc)? It appears to me that value is more in vacant/ referbished pre owned houses.

[Ride_on]

The market up that end is still stuck artifically high IMO, I am renting rather than buying. Many sellers have dug their heels in and are simply just not selling. It also been demonstrated that this is not because they are locked-in to a mortgage in Neg-equity. They tend to leave houses empty or rent them out (at a loss making level once they pay tax on the income).

At the upper end renting is significantly cheaper by an order or 3 or 4, just on rent vs repayment mortgage. Its does not include rates (say £200/month included in rent), maintenance, deposit etc. Rent will get you a fantastic house while you look around. I recommend spending as much as you can, say £1000/month. Even if you spend your equity from your current house it will be cheaper than buying a house that is losing value at a higher rate. The market here is screwed, today the Ulster bank reveilled a huge loss because of crystaling losses on the sale of land intended for development, turns out they were wrong about the value until today. The banking lies have still to be exposed, we are heavily dependant on public sector wages, average salaries going down, employment dropping, rental support dropping, no rates holiday for empty homes etc. The crash hasn't happened yet.

Renting is easy, low risk, get a 6 month contract no problem. Go with the flow, everyone wants to sell at a stupid price and would rather rent it out at a loss, just let them do it, don't fight them.

[Novamike]

The market up that end is still stuck artifically high IMO, I am renting rather than buying. Many sellers have dug their heels in and are simply just not selling. It also been demonstrated that this is not because they are locked-in to a mortgage in Neg-equity. They tend to leave houses empty or rent them out (at a loss making level once they pay tax on the income).

At the upper end renting is significantly cheaper by an order or 3 or 4, just on rent vs repayment mortgage. Its does not include rates (say £200/month included in rent), maintenance, deposit etc. Rent will get you a fantastic house while you look around. I recommend spending as much as you can, say £1000/month. Even if you spend your equity from your current house it will be cheaper than buying a house that is losing value at a higher rate. The market here is screwed, today the Ulster bank reveilled a huge loss because of crystaling losses on the sale of land intended for development, turns out they were wrong about the value until today. The banking lies have still to be exposed, we are heavily dependant on public sector wages, average salaries going down, employment dropping, rental support dropping, no rates holiday for empty homes etc. The crash hasn't happened yet.

Renting is easy, low risk, get a 6 month contract no problem. Go with the flow, everyone wants to sell at a stupid price and would rather rent it out at a loss, just let them do it, don't fight them.

I presume the premise of renting out (even at a loss) is in the hope of price stability and a change (even slight) to a buyer's marker again an dincreased prices- the impression i get is that this is some way off

Funny enough, one house that i was intending to view whilst over, has just been let for 3 years. I suppose time will tell if this was a wise decision.

[Deccos]

That should be a very healthy budget.

Many of the older houses in NI are in a poor state some have been painted over to look superficially OK but underneath most are leaky, often damp cold money pits. Many will need a complete back to the brick refurb if you want a modern well insulated house or else be prepared to spend a fortune over the years on heating and repairs. Similarly many of the new developments built at the peak were thrown up and often insulation etc were not done to a very high standard certainly not to current regulations. There are a few treads on this site highlighting leaky light fixtures poor insulation etc. Hence the need to take your time and chose carefully. I'm sure there are some well built or even half built houses out there. The other option with that budget would be to buy a site and build then at least you might get a decent plot with a modern low maintenance house??? I know not for everyone

quote name='Novamike' timestamp='1362065169' post='909269431']

Hi

We're looking around the £300-330k range. We've been very fortunate with the exchange rate (which was 2.5CAD$ to the pound when we came out and is now around 1.6CAD$ -£).

Looking around the upper malone/ north east Lisburn area.

In Canada we have been heavily involved in the Real Estate/ relocation/ immigration sector (and can continue to do so from NI); selling our house won't be a problem as the market here is very robust and sales usually only take 4-5 week from offer to completion (the 'exchange of contracts' is at the beginning of the process, unlike the UK).

As you suggest, i've had a good look at the different topics and the information/ depth of knowledge is fantastic. It certainly has helped us form a more realistic picture. I can't believe that some prices advertised are from 1-2 years ago and haven't been amended, and often bear no relation to the RV- in some instances i've seen listed prices at double the RV!.

We're out in Belfast next week to have a good look around and hope to move back around June/ July. I'll have to remember to drive on the wrong (right) side of the road- i still get UK moments when i get in the wrong (right) side of the car.

A question if any one can shed any light on this: In your opinion is (in general) there better value in buying a 'used' house, a referbished house or a new build/ construction (say, of the same sq f, same area etc)? It appears to me that value is more in vacant/ referbished pre owned houses.

[Novamike]

We've built twice in Canada- third time might be pushing the marriage vows a bit too far.

[Ride_on]

I presume the premise of renting out (even at a loss) is in the hope of price stability and a change (even slight) to a buyer's marker again an dincreased prices- the impression i get is that this is some way off

Funny enough, one house that i was intending to view whilst over, has just been let for 3 years. I suppose time will tell if this was a wise decision.

I think the premise is to make some money while prices 'return to normal', but 'normal' is defined as the biggest price they once heard for their property. Prices are returning to normal, but that IMO is pre-ceasefire price-to-wage (main earner) ratio. In my case this was 2.7x in 1990. This means about half the current values. Prices here were once similar to greater London, they were the biggest price-to-wage ratio in the UK at the time, utter madness and totally unsustainable.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Ride_on

[Novamike]

Although moving to NI and buying a property has many economic factors, it also has a large emotional element. We certainly do not feel/ want to be considered as speculators in any way, and I suppose just want to pay a fair price for what we can afford. My view is that we are buying into the future of the province.

A relation recently said that we will struggle as we are not big on religion,and that we will find it hard to integrate, as a consequence.

Anyway, off to the airport tomorrow for 8 days in belfast; see a few houses and take in the whole thing....

[Belfast Boy]

A relation recently said that we will struggle as we are not big on religion,and that we will find it hard to integrate, as a consequence.

If you have relations here I would not worry about it.

Canadians are well liked here. Though you will have to get used to people assuming you are American.

I am sure you will understand that we do not discuss religion on this forum.

Here is a joke...

An man from India is walking down the protestant Shankill Road. A group of men stop him and ask him what religion he is. 'I am a Hindu', the man replies. The men give him a warm welcome to Northern Ireland. One of the men asks him what part of India is he from? 'Delhi', the man replies. The men start punching the Indian visitor and shouting, 'that's London-delhi, ya fenian fecker!'

You will probably need your wife to explain that one to you.

Q. What's a Hindu?

A. Lay eggs.

And you will have to get used to the calender here in Northern Ireland...

January, February, March, March, March, March, March, March, September, October, November, December.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Belfast Boy

[2buyornot2buy]

You'll have no trouble with religion in South Belfast.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Satscene]

You'll have no trouble with religion in South Belfast.

True, with a budget of £330k you wont be buying into any of the `ghetto` areas. South/east Belfast, North down etc, all within your price range, nice areas

[Novamike]

V Funny

For some reason our sons (who moved over here when they were 2 and 9) have retained their 'British' accent; this may be the comboination of my wife's NI accent and my Salf London accent. Anyway, we see many brits/ Irish children who lose their accent within weeks here but for some reson this hasn't happened to us.

Canadian and UK passport but not a hint of the 'twang' that usually goes with extended stays here.

Last time i was in Belfast was around 2000 so i expect there will be lots of changes.

Hopefully a combination of Golf/ Red wine/ footie will break down most barriers (although as a Leeds supporter i'm not expecting a warm welcome from the MU side of the family ).

[2buyornot2buy]

Leeds supporter i'm not expecting a warm welcome

To be honest I would rather you just stayed in Canada.

[Ryzo]

V Funny

For some reason our sons (who moved over here when they were 2 and 9) have retained their 'British' accent; this may be the comboination of my wife's NI accent and my Salf London accent. Anyway, we see many brits/ Irish children who lose their accent within weeks here but for some reson this hasn't happened to us.

Canadian and UK passport but not a hint of the 'twang' that usually goes with extended stays here.

Last time i was in Belfast was around 2000 so i expect there will be lots of changes.

Hopefully a combination of Golf/ Red wine/ footie will break down most barriers (although as a Leeds supporter i'm not expecting a warm welcome from the MU side of the family ).

You'll not have a problem, if you need any recommendations on golf courses let me know

[Novamike]

To be honest I would rather you just stayed in Canada.

Are you suggesting that there are not many enclaves of LU supporters dotted around the city

Just got my power/ leccy/ heating bill in for two months here- $1500 (1000 pounds)- looking forward to, shall we say, more competitive prices in NI.

[2buyornot2buy]

Are you suggesting that there are not many enclaves of LU supporters dotted around the city

Just got my power/ leccy/ heating bill in for two months here- $1500 (1000 pounds)- looking forward to, shall we say, more competitive prices in NI.

There are a few. My best friend is a LU supporter. I'll find out the cave he crawls in to watch the matches. lol

Don't expect cheap bills here though. Our gas, electricity, oil and petrol are among the most expensive in Europe.