My First Post And My Problems!

[markyh]

Perhaps you would do better getting a £30k job living in Kent (perhaps working for the council/uni, (easy life) than a £40k travelling into London ?

Amazing how many can't see this when considering working in London.

A) Most not on the ladder can afford to buy a family home in London unless earning what, £200k p/a. £40k in London is bugger all to raise a family on.

To live within a 30-50 min train commute in to London in any home county will cost you at least £7k p/a net, so £10k gross in annual train fair, PLUS, daily car parking costs.

We live in Aylesbury and the wife currently works for a PLC in Amersham on £37k. Costs her £200 in LPG and petrol a month to do a daily 50 mile round trip, 45 mins to 1 hour each way. Before Xmas she got all excited about a job advert in her sector she could apply for in London, with Google. She asked me to work out how much she would need to be paid to better off income wise, if more time poor.

I did the sums and she would have needed £50k to remain static so at least £55k to just be net a few hundred a month better off! I told her unless she thought they might pay her £60k it's not even worth applying. She checked and her sector even struggles to pat the £50k in London so she let it pass.

M

[Spare Change Please]

Similar situation. North West London, 70k combined wages. Age 29 & 30 with 9mth old baby . Renting 1 bed flat. All bills incl insurance, car,rent, food, travel etc are £1,500 pm. Both have student loans. No debt. My current take home after all deductions, share saves, student loans, pension etc is £1,700. Wife is on Mat leave so hers is £0.

From May childcare costs will be 14k pa. Both of my parents moved away a few years ago and wife's parents live in Dublin. Even if they did live near by they all work (all aged between 49-52 and still paying off mortgages). I know of no one my age who's parents don't work.

We have 15k saved but did a fairly big wedding, honeymoon and a holiday etc. We would have had nearly double but wife got her way.

We will need a 2 bed place soon. That's £300/£400 pm more. Putting it off till baby is at least 18mth maybe 2 years old.

Had to go open book with the parents at the weekend as getting pressure to buy/rent a bigger place.

A two bed flat where we are is £260k. We would out grow that the day we move in. Long term we plan to move away but not for a few years yet.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Come back when you've saved a year's wages?

[Spare Change Please]

Just to add - and this point was overlooked by our parents, although combined wages are currently 70k two years ago they were 50k and 5 years ago 32k.

[Lion]

It actually makes prefect sense to stay in London, but with both our parents in Kent, and therefore the support and the fact we want to be with them mean that its not an easy decision to make.

Has anyone else had a similar experience.

IKB.

We made a compromise and moved to a leavy suburb (in North London, in walking distance to a tube station) when we came to the UK in 2000. Back then, one of us needed the tube to study at Imperial College. We then started to like the areas at the end of the Piccadilly Line, and although we no longer need the tube - our company is even further out, so we go there by car - we stayed here and now raise a family here. We like London, particularly because of the cultural mix (we are immigrants ourselves). Our income was initially even lower than your's when we bought our flat in 2004, but we were confident that we would earn more over time. A few years ago our first child was born, so we sold our flat and bought a house. In the meantime our household income (and even my income on my own) is well in the six digits, and to be honest this is needed if you raise a family in London without being under constant financial pressure. A reasonable family home in a reasonable suburb will be close to half a million - if you cannot afford that (with help from family?) in 5-10 years it is better to stay away from London - unless house prices drop by 50% by then ;-). Also, we were concerned about the state schools in London. I am sure some are great, but many seem to be under a lot of pressure, and quite a few seem to struggle to maintain basic discipline. Anyway, one of our conditions of raising a family in London was private schooling. We would not stay in London if we could not afford private schooling, but this is probably a personal choice and not a necessity.

Another advice: Don't pay a lot for the wedding if you can avoid it (or if others offer to help). Our's did not cost us anything as our parents offered to pay, and we used the cash gifts towards our first flat. Our wedding (incl. honeymoon) was cash positive for us. Generally if you live in London take all the financial help you can get from relatives. We sold our flat with a good profit, but even that and our very good income were not sufficient to move up to the next step of the housing ladder in London - we also had to accept a significant cash gift from our parents that paid for additional expenses like stamp duty. It is ridiculous how the government benefits from high house prices - one should not have to pay £15k stamp duty for what essentially is a very average family home.

So to sum it up, a good family life in London costs - A LOT - and probably more than you may think. However, if you think your income can increase a lot in the next decade, go for it and it can be fantastic to bring up a family here. If not - forget it, it is not worth the struggle - unless you can get used to a life in a small house/flat in a not so good neighbourhood, expensive childcare and potentially (although not necessarily) not very desirable schools for your kids.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Lion

[RichB]

IT and my partner in Retail - Shop manager does pretty well for herself - works pretty long hours.

My main issue and this is probably being a selfish man, is I know that I am going to make a lot of financial sacrifices and perhaps more importantly virtually every facet of my life will become harder, travel- less time, child- less money - more stress - more travel etc.

Trust me I want to have a child but it seems almost a bigger sacrifice to bear at the moment, - I am 37 she is 29 - Just wanted some advice, really I know I am not the only one

Move, somewhere far away from london. We went to staines, but it's not far enough I think. Commute for 3 hours a day - when will you see the kid? Weekends? May as well live somewhere nice, and commute for the week on a contract basis - get some tax breaks in.

I'm also IT, and the same sort of age... 1st kid coming this month. Been thinking lately that the chances are poor that I will ever see grandkids.

[SHERWICK]

Similar situation. North West London, 70k combined wages. Age 29 & 30 with 9mth old baby . Renting 1 bed flat. All bills incl insurance, car,rent, food, travel etc are £1,500 pm. Both have student loans. No debt. My current take home after all deductions, share saves, student loans, pension etc is £1,700. Wife is on Mat leave so hers is £0.

From May childcare costs will be 14k pa. Both of my parents moved away a few years ago and wife's parents live in Dublin. Even if they did live near by they all work (all aged between 49-52 and still paying off mortgages). I know of no one my age who's parents don't work.

We have 15k saved but did a fairly big wedding, honeymoon and a holiday etc. We would have had nearly double but wife got her way.

We will need a 2 bed place soon. That's £300/£400 pm more. Putting it off till baby is at least 18mth maybe 2 years old.

Had to go open book with the parents at the weekend as getting pressure to buy/rent a bigger place.

A two bed flat where we are is £260k. We would out grow that the day we move in. Long term we plan to move away but not for a few years yet.

Only thing I would say is that after a couple of years in Google, she could probably command £80k+ globally...

[SHERWICK]

We have 15k saved but did a fairly big wedding, honeymoon and a holiday etc. We would have had nearly double but wife got her way.

Thanks to many years on this site before I got married, I got my way. I.e. spent less than £500 on the wedding (only very immediate family invited) and invested the rest that we would have spent (ok, we spent £2k on a honeymoon in the USA). 5 years later we're in a much more secure financial position than if we'd blown £25k on a wedding/honeymoon like some of our friends did.

Basically, you need to plan ahead and make big sacrifices constantly, for years (10+ years) if you want to have a house in London without help from parents, and focus relentlessly on career, career, career, or your own business (which is even harder work).

Your partner has to ***AND I MEAN HAS TO*** buy into this fully.

Or you can simply leave London and go to another country if your skills are in demand, e.g. Sweden, where life is much easier for young families and the average standard of living is much higher. Or even somewhere like Dubai (not my cup of tea) where you won't get taxed, or even the USA, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore, China etc.

Whatever you choose to do, there are probably people on this forum that have done it already, and can give you very good advice.

Good luck!

[Spare Change Please]

Thanks to many years on this site before I got married, I got my way. I.e. spent less than £500 on the wedding (only very immediate family invited) and invested the rest that we would have spent (ok, we spent £2k on a honeymoon in the USA). 5 years later we're in a much more secure financial position than if we'd blown £25k on a wedding/honeymoon like some of our friends did.

Basically, you need to plan ahead and make big sacrifices constantly, for years (10+ years) if you want to have a house in London without help from parents, and focus relentlessly on career, career, career, or your own business (which is even harder work).

Your partner has to ***AND I MEAN HAS TO*** buy into this fully.

Or you can simply leave London and go to another country if your skills are in demand, e.g. Sweden, where life is much easier for young families and the average standard of living is much higher. Or even somewhere like Dubai (not my cup of tea) where you won't get taxed, or even the USA, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Singapore, China etc.

Whatever you choose to do, there are probably people on this forum that have done it already, and can give you very good advice.

Good luck!

Agree with this and wife is buying into it very fast. (wedding was far less then 25k by the way) Thing that gets us down are the comments from older people we know, family co workers etc...

Bit of background, our baby doesn't sleep very well. This week alone we have had the following advice:

co worker in 50's "put her in her own room" Me "we only have a one bed flat" Her "Really?" with shocked face.

Mum "well nothing for it then she needs her own room" Me "We know that but £300 pm etc for 6x4 room"

Getting sick of explaining our economic situation

[SHERWICK]

Agree with this and wife is buying into it very fast. (wedding was far less then 25k by the way) Thing that gets us down are the comments from older people we know, family co workers etc...

Bit of background, our baby doesn't sleep very well. This week alone we have had the following advice:

co worker in 50's "put her in her own room" Me "we only have a one bed flat" Her "Really?" with shocked face.

Mum "well nothing for it then she needs her own room" Me "We know that but £300 pm etc for 6x4 room"

Getting sick of explaining our economic situation

Just don't listen to these types of people.

Ignore them.

You know what YOU need to do. Have a plan and go and do it.

By the way, thre are some pretty clever people here, particularly in the Financial Markets forum, and none of them would talk down to you or oook down on you, mainly as they've been through similar tough times!

[samtheman]

Have you considered moving abroad? Will become more difficult with kids, so might be better to take a punt now. Only question is where to?

I'm surprised that more people don't consider moving abroad when they are young. When they do consider it, they almost assume that Australia (i.e. the other side of the world) is the only option for a Brit. I know very little about Australian immigration but I suspect that a lot of things that Brits moving to Oz are looking for, are no longer there i.e. the reputation that has built up over the decades is no longer relevant. Almost all my extended family moved to Australia in the past 2-3 decades and it seems that those relatives that moved later had it worst in terms of job opportunities, housing and just general prospects.

Just like many other Europeans, learning a new language and trying life in a different country and culture, that is only a short flight away from the UK, presents plenty of great prospects. Having done so myself, I've found it incredibly rewarding and the demand for British workers in the EU is huge but yes, that does almost always mean learning another language to a decent level. There are so many opportunities missed on that front.

On an entirely separate subject, was watching the Swiss news this evening, with coverage about "low salaries" in Switzerland. Initially, I thought that what was being discussed were people who were socially excluded, had to live rough, sharing a flat with many others. Then I realised (fair enough Switzerland is a very expensive country but still...) that a low salary was anything below 3800CHF net, that's over 2600GBP.

For 10 minutes, I heard "poor" worker after poor worker complain about how hard it is to pay for a 1500CHF rent on a flat and pay for your health insurance and other expenses and you don't even have any money for nice clothes at the end of the month! They were really pulling at my heart strings! And these were the Swiss workers who really had it tough!

These were people who represented 10% of workers.

Having lived in London for the last decade, I had completely forgotten that the standard of living for a big chunk of the population in London would just be deemed as third world for a lot of European countries. Fair enough, London is a big city but I think that people put up with ridiculous standards of living (and do not demand any improvement of this from the political class) all in the name of progress, so that a small part of the population can enjoy the high life.

Despite being from London myself, I don't really see the appeal of staying in London in the long run and don't see how it's in my interest.

I remember, way before the financial crisis, being asked during a training seminar, "What will you young people do if you can't afford to buy a property?". I answered immediately "Move abroad" with the guy giving the seminar then having a puzzled look as that was not the answer he wanted/expected. He clearly had it in his mind that all these young people must be dreaming of owning a property in the UK, that that could be the only option for such people.

If the UK population and government want to continue policies that drive young British people out of the property market, out of society and for some, out of the country then they'll eventually pay the price further down the road. The "savings" that people think are being made will only be replaced with "bills" that will be double or triple in a few decades.