Potash Mine Under National Park Will Make Yorkshire Farmers Millionaires

[Starla]

Where can I keep an eye on developments for this? As mining/processing will need electrical works there may be some good opportunities there.

Website here http://siriusminerals.com/ Google is also your friend as they are gaining more press exposure.

HPC-Craig - music to my ears (eyes!)

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

That would be truly awesome.

And a great tourist attraction.

They spent a fortune building one of those outside the Mirage in Vegas.

We could get one for free.

[chronyx]

Website here http://siriusminerals.com/ Google is also your friend as they are gaining more press exposure.

HPC-Craig - music to my ears (eyes!)

Thank you

[spyguy]

Interesting that you're local, I read some of the investor boards for Sirius/SXX and there's often a few local people giving their input and they have no objections either to the mine. I'm sure there will be a lot of objections though, ironically from Nimbys who live in houses built on an area of outstanding beauty. It is a commodities boom play, but that's the name of the game with investing and I've gone in with a relitively low stake, the amount of money that would hack me off to lose but not ruin my life, on the flip side if planning permission goes through then the return will be huge. Low stake, low potential loss - low stake, huge potential gain.

The mine head is to be built near Sneaton.

Its not going to visible or impact many people.

The piple line will just go up the Guisboro road and turn off to Tees port.

The chances of Sirus developing this mine is virtually nil.

I assume they want to tidy up the rights and then sell it on to another company - assuming they don;t run out of money first.

There's a lot of potash available in other countries much nearer China.

[@contradevian]

Looks like the NIMBY's will get their own way:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2013/jul/16/sirius-minerals-york-potash-project

Sirius Minerals has been undermined by concerns about approval of its proposed potash project in North Yorkshire, sending its shares down almost 11%.

YH: Potash miner Sirius Minerals $SXX defers decision on mining application. Trades down to 17.25 or 42.5% lower than 15th July high of 30p.

[durhamborn]

Years ago UKcoal wanted to opencast some green fields near me.I joined everyone else in trying to get it stopped.However it went ahead and they did a fantastic job.Once theyd finished they planted 400k trees,all native,oak,ash,birch etc.They dug several ponds and wetlands all connected with wet ditches.They planted species rich hedgerows.They connected a whole valley with woodlands,wetlands,hedgerows and paths.

So from what were really empty arable fields with a few trees are now superb wildlife habitat that is full of wildlife from barn owls to toads.There are also now lots of paths for the public.

It changed my view of these sorts of things.A lot of these fields are devoid of any wildlife,just empty green deserts.Development if done right can increase the areas for wildlife in a big way.The housing developments now around us all have pond building and woodland planting as standard and the local wildlife seems to be very happy moving in quickly when they are finished.

[chronyx]

Years ago UKcoal wanted to opencast some green fields near me.I joined everyone else in trying to get it stopped.However it went ahead and they did a fantastic job.Once theyd finished they planted 400k trees,all native,oak,ash,birch etc.They dug several ponds and wetlands all connected with wet ditches.They planted species rich hedgerows.They connected a whole valley with woodlands,wetlands,hedgerows and paths.

So from what were really empty arable fields with a few trees are now superb wildlife habitat that is full of wildlife from barn owls to toads.There are also now lots of paths for the public.

It changed my view of these sorts of things.A lot of these fields are devoid of any wildlife,just empty green deserts.Development if done right can increase the areas for wildlife in a big way.The housing developments now around us all have pond building and woodland planting as standard and the local wildlife seems to be very happy moving in quickly when they are finished.

What a great change to read a positive story about this sort of thing!

[@contradevian]

Years ago UKcoal wanted to opencast some green fields near me.I joined everyone else in trying to get it stopped.However it went ahead and they did a fantastic job.Once theyd finished they planted 400k trees,all native,oak,ash,birch etc.They dug several ponds and wetlands all connected with wet ditches.They planted species rich hedgerows.They connected a whole valley with woodlands,wetlands,hedgerows and paths.

So from what were really empty arable fields with a few trees are now superb wildlife habitat that is full of wildlife from barn owls to toads.There are also now lots of paths for the public.

It changed my view of these sorts of things.A lot of these fields are devoid of any wildlife,just empty green deserts.Development if done right can increase the areas for wildlife in a big way.The housing developments now around us all have pond building and woodland planting as standard and the local wildlife seems to be very happy moving in quickly when they are finished.

Yes and people seem to forget that the countryside was a hive of industry at one time, employing thousands of people.

The "Tissington Trail" in Derbyshire is a former railway line. It wasn't built for fun, but to service all the quarries and mines in the area.

Then all the "gravel quarries" that were later flooded to make wildlife and boating lakes such as this:

http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/embertoncountrypark/

[billybong]

The article doesn't really explain how the scheme is going to "Make Yorkshire Farmers Millionaires" (or even dozens of them) does it.

Dozens of Yorkshire farmers are on the verge of becoming millionaires thanks to a 250m-year-old layer of minerals a mile below their muddy boots.

Chris Fraser, a former investment banker, has submitted a planning application to mine the world's largest deposit of potash, a powerful fertiliser, in an ancient seabed deep below the North York Moors national park.

So someone who used to be an investment banker and now has a drilling/exploration company called Sirius Minerals.. Maybe he has a farm as well - the article doesn't say.

Landowners could be in line for a lottery-style windfall because Fraser's company, Sirius Minerals, has promised to pay out more than £1bn in royalty payments over 50 years.

Ah it's landowners of course. So who owns the land. Do any farmers own any of the National Trust land which is land that can't be farmed. The article doesn't say.

It would have been interesting if they'd explained the headline but no. Farmers as a whole of course have mixed reputations which can range the full spectrum from greedy, lucky through to hard working, beneficial depending on the subject. Sounds like they've been put in the greedy/lucky slot this time even if they don't own the land or won't benefit from the potash mine - except for buying the fertiliser for use on their farms

Maybe it's a better headline than something like Investment Bankers and National Park Landowners Will Add To Their Millions.

Edited July 18, 2013 by billybong

[@contradevian]

The article doesn't really explain how the scheme is going to "Make Yorkshire Farmers Millionaires" (or even dozens) does it.

So someone who used to be an investment banker and now has a drilling/exploration company called Sirius Minerals.. Maybe he has a farm as well - the article doesn't say.

Ah it's landowners of course. So who owns the land. Do any farmers own any of the National Trust land which is land that can't be farmed. The article doesn't say.

It would have been interesting if they'd explained the headline but no. Farmers as a whole of course have mixed reputations which can range the full spectrum from greedy, lucky through to hard working, beneficial depending on the subject. Sounds like they've been put in the greedy/lucky slot this time even if they don't own the land or won't benefit from the potash.

Maybe it's a better headline than something like Investment Bankers and National Park Landowners Will Add To Their Millions.

The National Trust rent farms on their land.

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/article-1356401668163/

Not sure if that resolves your question though.

[billybong]

The National Trust rent farms on their land.

http://

www.nationaltrust.org.uk/article-1356401668163/

Not sure if that resolves your question though.

Thanks for the link.

It seems to show that there is some light farming on the land but it doesn't clarify if the land's owned by "farmers". Maybe some of it is owned by farmers but they let other people farm it. The article didn't say.

Farmers who rent the land likely won't benefit from the mining except maybe some sub-letting rights?

Edited July 18, 2013 by billybong

[newbonic]

....

So from what were really empty arable fields with a few trees are now superb wildlife habitat that is full of wildlife from barn owls to toads.There are also now lots of paths for the public.

It changed my view of these sorts of things.A lot of these fields are devoid of any wildlife,just empty green deserts.Development if done right can increase the areas for wildlife in a big way.The housing developments now around us all have pond building and woodland planting as standard and the local wildlife seems to be very happy moving in quickly when they are finished.

Not just 'empty green desert' - a farmer could get 8 tonnes of wheat per hectare, selling at £200 tonne or so (year after year with different crops). These 'empty' arable fields are food factories that displace imported food to the tune of £1.5k+ per year/per hectare (and they can sometimes get 2 crops out of them).

[TrevorS]

So let me get this right:

1, It's ok to build a fekin great mine in a national park.

2, It's not ok to build a well planned housing estate of say 50 detached houses in such an area.

How is this justifiable?

They haven't said it's ok. The miner has withdrawn it's planning application to the The North York Moors National Park Authority after a consultant review found it inadequate and unlikely to pass (it was p*ss-poor). The Park Authority have already indicated they are unlikely to be in favour of the project.

The company have gone back to the drawing board. The miner's share price has fallen 25% in response. This is part of a PR counter-offensive by the board to shore up sentiment and stop investors deserting.

[Giraffe]

Not just 'empty green desert' - a farmer could get 8 tonnes of wheat per hectare, selling at £200 tonne or so (year after year with different crops). These 'empty' arable fields are food factories that displace imported food to the tune of £1.5k+ per year/per hectare (and they can sometimes get 2 crops out of them).

Yes but that level of production is only possible with the repeated and liberal application OF.........Potash

[TrevorS]

Years ago UKcoal wanted to opencast some green fields near me.I joined everyone else in trying to get it stopped.However it went ahead and they did a fantastic job...

It changed my view of these sorts of things

"...there will be more joy in housing heaven over one NIMBY who repents than over ninety-nine righteous HPC persons who need no repentance" (forums 15:10)

[TrevorS]

Why do the benefits of this good geological fortune accrue to an investment banker and not the good people of Yorkshire or indeed added to the UK's sovereign wealth fund along with our North Sea oil reserves?

Frack Lancashire

Irradiate Cumbria

Fertilise Yorshire

At least there's some sort of plan for the North

Mr Fraser doesn't own the mine. He works for the company that does. The company is a plc financed by investors. Investment is open to anyone. They take the risk, they get the rewards (or losses). The good people of Yorkshire would get jobs, and taxes and export revenues would benefit the economy nationally.

The disadvantages are the usual ones associated with mining which must be liked or lumped. Personally if I was unemployed in Yorkshire I would rather gain mining skills than food-handling ones. The Park covers 350,000 acres so there would still be plenty left to enjoy.

[TrevorS]

Yes but that level of production is only possible with the repeated and liberal application OF.........Potash

Is this the ultimate NIMBY dilemma?

[Starla]

Is this the ultimate NIMBY dilemma?

Probably not so long as it's crops and people in other countries that suffer, providing it doesn't affect deliveries to the M&S food hall, not in my lifetime etc etc.

SXX got an extenstion to the planning permission decision again this morning and share price drove up again. Bit like a kid that can't pass it's exams, keeps getting another go, until finally they hand them the answer sheet.

[WorkingForTheMan]

p.s. IS there any way from the Picturedrome in Holmfirth back into Mcr by public transport after a gig? as an alternative to driving over from the Woodhead (want to drink)

as a source of local knowledge, I can answer this: No. there is no bus service over the hill. You'd have to get a bus/taxi into huddersfield then a train to manchester. In fact it may be cheaper to get a taxi straight over..

[@contradevian]

The disadvantages are the usual ones associated with mining which must be liked or lumped. Personally if I was unemployed in Yorkshire I would rather gain mining skills than food-handling ones. The Park covers 350,000 acres so there would still be plenty left to enjoy.

Needless to say it was predominantly, the retired and semi retired opposing it.

[alexw]

We should just have the local NIMBYs stuffed and mounted in their own aspic-preserved houses. It's basically what they want.

Personally I believe we should have a government department that identifies nimby's, carries out compulsory purchases of their main homes, then converts those homes back into farmland.

Then their should be a weekly government press release naming these individuals and congratulating them.

E.g. "Congratulations xxxx xxxxxxxx! Thanks to your generosity the UK now has 1/4 of an acre more of beautiful pristine farmland. We owe this all to you! Be proud of yourself xxxx! Three cheers for xxxx xxxxxxxx!!!

Edited July 18, 2013 by alexw

[@contradevian]

as a source of local knowledge, I can answer this: No. there is no bus service over the hill. You'd have to get a bus/taxi into huddersfield then a train to manchester. In fact it may be cheaper to get a taxi straight over..

There is a bus over the hill to Manchester but you might have to change at either Meltham or Linthwaite.

[One-percent]

There was an old rundown farmhouse for sale recently near the proposed mine. The current owner clearly knew/thought that the mine would go under the property as in the rightmove details it stated that the mineral rights under the property were to be retained

[@contradevian]

Personally I believe we should have a government department that identifies nimby's, carries out compulsory purchases of their main homes, then converts those homes back into farmland.

Well ideally it should be turned back into natural woodland. NIMBY homes should all become part of the National Forest, before farming existed. This would be the natural and sustainable thing to do. Or alternatively just release wild boars and wolves back into the countryside.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Secure Tenant

[Guest eight]

The company have gone back to the drawing board. The miner's share price has fallen 25% in response.

Probably so their wives, golf partners and wives golf partners can pile in before they submit the mysteriously successful planning application.