Are Ukip Really Going To Save Us?

[OnionTerror]

This will probably be moved off topic - but anyway...

I see a lot of people on here have stated that they are planning to voke UKIP at the next election....Is this purely a protest vote, or is more to do with their policies in regards to Europe / economy, etc?

I plan not to vote next time....voted Lib Dem last time...never again...although I suspect UKIP would be just as worse than this coalition if they got in...they'll just become another part of the establishment, and most likely become even more right wing than this shower!

[TheCandyman]

I will vote for them but I dont expect them to save us. Some of the stuff Farage says scares me but I hope he is just trying to be a little more mainstream so he has a chance.

Swapping free movement within the EU with free movement within the commonwealth is going to be even worse. He goes on about how we have better ties with the Commonwealth so it makes me wonder.

Personally if the EU was just Scandinavia, Germany and other western EU countries, and run for the benefit of the people living there, I doubt anyone would have much of a problem

[DTMark]

I will vote for them but I dont expect them to save us. Some of the stuff Farage says scares me but I hope he is just trying to be a little more mainstream so he has a chance.

Actually, I think Farage's rather outspoken rants confer something quite unique: a personality, and, just maybe, a flash of Gordon Brown's lost "moral compass".

In terms of getting noticed and getting his messages across - whether deliberately or just because he says what he thinks I think his approach is starting to pay off.

But then we can all say the things we do, and then we get into power...

It's almost slightly Thatcher-esque in as much as what the country needed at the time was someone with courage, conviction and force of personality, three things lacking in politics today. Should we find ourselves against a similar economic backdrop, he may well be the saviour in many peoples' eyes.

Just remains to be seen whether he could deliver.

[Tankus]

Its pretty obvious who he will deliver.............. Wallace just can't wait

[Blod]

Many of the policies of UKIP have an honest resonance with the UK electorate, something so obviously lack in the other mainstream parties.

A government that is running a huge and unsustainable deficit whilst showering our money on their pet political class projects I don't feel can be described as "right wing". Many of the present coalition are or have been involved in Common Purpose and as such it is that that people are rebelling against.

In the present political environment I don't see UKIP forming the next government. Their mere existence as a mouthpiece for some policies which go directly against the core values of Common Purpose could have a positive effect on our political classes.

I can see that the closer we get to the next election the more likely "call me dave" and the rest of his Common Purpose pro corporatist buddies will find a way to do away with Farage. Where are the other public faces of UKIP who could replace him, at the moment their aren't any.

[Vagabond]

I predict UKIP will still not have a single MP after the next election, despite being in thrid place in the popular vote. Hopefully this will show up the farce that is FPTP.

I also predict millions upon millions of morons will vote for Red, Yellow or Blue as per normal and then continue to wonder why their rear is so sore from being continualy raped.

[Sir Harold m]

I am a member , will vote for them and will probably stand ( at council level ) if I get motivated enough.

Their leader is a likeable and courageous man , their policies are on the whole awful and as Mark Wadsworth pointed out , heavily influenced by homeownerism and vi 's.

That said most of their policies are ditch able given the ONLY real policy they have that matters is to get out of the EU.

This achieved can give the possible chance that the next generation might have a country to shape as they wish rather than see the current entrenched system supported by unelected lawmakers.

Another thing is despite their policy bias ( attending one of their meetings you will see lots of mad haired eccentric professor types ( think the doc in back to the future)), they do welcome opposing views and independent thought .

They really really foam at the mouth type hate onshore wind farms and at the last meeting I attended they ranted on for an hour about the prospect of one application . Just for fun I suggested they wre a good idea and despite my precarious stance every time I was jeered or tutted at, nearly the whole room vociferously condemned the hecklers and in quite an aggressive manner. They have spent their lives being marginalised for their views and they don't appreciate intellectual bullying .

I'd never go for a sherbert with any of them in normal social life because most are batshit crazy but they are rather sweet and kind individuals and they stand and believe in something .

Contrast this with the other troughing parties and they come across quite well.

I know they will probably cause buzz lightweight to be elected but the colour of the next turd that emerges from the next electoral arsehole is irrelevant IMO

Edited January 8, 2013 by Sir Harold m

[rxe]

Having been a lifelong Tory, I will vote UKIP at the Euro elections and probably in the next national. I don't believe that they are going to save us, they probably are incompetent as well, but Farage comes across as unpolished, and I believe that what I see is what I am going to get.

I just want something that is not the current trio of "parties". There is so much idealogical crap that goes with all of them. I want a party that:

1) Doesn't think chauffering a minister to work every day is acceptable. Get the ******ing train like the people who pay your salary.

2) Doesn't think that scamming the expenses system to pay for your parents accommodation is acceptable

3) Actually gets a grip on the insane levels of public spending, rather than bleating about austerity while applying for more credit cards

4) Seems to give a shit about the people who go out and earn money, and pay tax through the nose to support government "programmes".

If there was a box on the ballot that said "none of the above", I would tick that.

[iamnumerate]

I predict UKIP will still not have a single MP after the next election, despite being in thrid place in the popular vote. Hopefully this will show up the farce that is FPTP.

Bearing in mind that Heath won in 1970 despite getting less votes than Labour I doubt anything can do that.

I also predict millions upon millions of morons will vote for Red, Yellow or Blue as per normal and then continue to wonder why their rear is so sore from being continualy raped.

Very true

[sombreroloco]

Their leader is likeable

[The Knimbies who say No]

This will probably be moved off topic - but anyway...

I see a lot of people on here have stated that they are planning to voke UKIP at the next election....Is this purely a protest vote, or is more to do with their policies in regards to Europe / economy, etc?

I plan not to vote next time....voted Lib Dem last time...never again...although I suspect UKIP would be just as worse than this coalition if they got in...they'll just become another part of the establishment, and most likely become even more right wing than this shower!

You've put an exclamation mark at the end of your last sentence, as if a preposterous notion, but an appreciable number of people want a genuinely right wing party (read: small state, low taxes). And lots of them also want a say regarding the status of the UK's relationship with the EU, which has morphed over the years into something quite far from the original 'deal'. Those people's only electoral outlet is UKIP.

Tories could once chastise a potential UKIP voter with the notion that they'd get most of what they wanted by voting Tory, and reduce the possibility of a Labour win. But, one rusty 'cast-iron' guarantee later, and the average UKIP voter(as far as I can see) has learned that the Conservative party are not to be trusted.

Dave has painted himself into a corner with UKIP, and it might be the deciding factor in whether he retains power or not.

[Sir Harold m]

If voting ukip let's in liebor but teaches the Tories a lesson then so be it. I'd rather be stabbed in the front and that's why do many Tories will vote ukip next time knowing all too well that it will let labour in.

Some prices are worth paying .

[The Knimbies who say No]

If voting ukip let's in liebor but teaches the Tories a lesson then so be it. I'd rather be stabbed in the front and that's why do many Tories will vote ukip next time knowing all too well that it will let labour in.

Some prices are worth paying .

A very common viewpoint. The Telegraph comment boards read like a UKIP chat forum, and more so by the week it seems. The Conservative party have squandered an opportunity to put UKIP to bed by not fulfilling the referendum promise. Labour must be the prime beneficiaries of the fallout, nationally. What the Tories have failed to sufficiently understand is that this prospect is not a deterrant, if anything an additional means of exerting pressure on Dave. Amazing how the tables turn when sufficient numbers of people hold firm.

Shaping up to a truly acrimonious campaign in a couple of years, best order enough popcorn!

Edited January 8, 2013 by cheeznbreed

[Billy Ballyckz]

I think the Tories will give a "Cast Iron" guarantee of a referendum if they win the next election.

Probably so will Labour.

Whether anyone believes them will be a different matter.

[Byron]

I am a life long Tory but will vote UKIP

I know some of them are nuts, but as more people start to support them, they will come under more sensible influences.

What infuriates me with Con, Lib, and Lab is how they totally ignore the electorate over Europe.

They tell us that it's good for Britain, while trousering, snouting and gravy train riding.

Same with Blair and EU immigration. No thought at all for the people. If we question them, we are 'Bigots'

Brown committed treason when he signed the Lisbon treaty. I would gladly see him hanged.

That is how strong I feel about it.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

I am a life long Tory but will vote UKIP

I know some of them are nuts,

Estimated to be 5%, how many Tories, Labour and Lib/Dems are nuts?

[Flat Bear]

Estimated to be 5%, how many Tories, Labour and Lib/Dems are nuts?

Tories 7% nuts

lib dems 99.9% nuts

liebor 576% nuts

[t1234]

Tories will promise euro referendum in order to see off UKIP challenge then once elected we'll get the most ridiculously worded referendum to guaranatee we stay in Europe. Just like the joke electoral reform referendum.

[The Knimbies who say No]

Tories will promise euro referendum in order to see off UKIP challenge then once elected we'll get the most ridiculously worded referendum to guaranatee we stay in Europe. Just like the joke electoral reform referendum.

That is a naive view imo. Cameron already blew that chance, and the growing support for UKIP is directly as a result of that betrayal. The same trick won't work again.

[t1234]

The city and big business do not want the UK out of Europe, and that is where the Tory direction will come from. As the election gets closer if UKIP are still in the frame be prepared to see an onslaught from the current political parties and the media.

'A vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour'.

'Vote for UKIP is a wasted vote.'

You've seen it all before, and people do constantly fall for it especially if the one of the main parties has the same key policy, in this case a referendum on Europe.

If the Tories were serious they would not offer a referendum but a concrete policy on Europe.

[The Knimbies who say No]

The city and big business do not want the UK out of Europe, and that is where the Tory direction will come from. As the election gets closer if UKIP are still in the frame be prepared to see an onslaught from the current political parties and the media.

'A vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour'.

'Vote for UKIP is a wasted vote.'

You've seen it all before, and people do constantly fall for it especially if the one of the main parties has the same key policy, in this case a referendum on Europe.

If the Tories were serious they would not offer a referendum but a concrete policy on Europe.

I don't buy that scenario as sufficient to neuter any threat from UKIP, for two reasons:

1. Cameron has form on breaking a referendum promise. Not on some obscure issue, but one which is very dear to many voters. Some of them will vote UKIP regardless of another 'cast iron' guarantee.

2. Conservative voters who switch to UKIP with the EU as a major motivation (i.e. most of them) couldn't care less if the Conservatives lose power. In fact some of them are positively willing it on as a means of reforging the Conservative party on a more traditional basis, with a different leader. I see that as their major strength. I don't see that Cameron has begun to understand that yet. The 'a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour' line only works if people genuinely prefer one outcome over another. Increasingly, it seems that is not the case with UKIPers, or indeed they'd prefer Labour if it means cleansing the Tory party of the liberals. The Gay marriage debate has further fanned the flames amongst them.

Cameron might just be ignoring the EU problem in the hope it goes away, a lot can happen in 2 1/2 years. However if UKIP poll well in the Euro elections next year (some suggest they might even top the poll), what position is the PM leaving himself in a year away from a general election? A pretty sticky one I'd suggest.

I think that UKIP have a realistic chance of removing Cameron from office, as it stands. There is quite a clear road Cameron ought to avoid travelling down between now and the election; to date he's stuck to it like glue.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

An Article today in the Derby Telegraph, very interesting, can`t find a link at the mo

“Cast Iron” Cameron's EU Conundrum

by Edward Spalton 18 January

Mr Cameron's long delayed speech on the EU was awaited with interest, especially by those who remembered his “cast iron” guarantee of a referendum on the EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. The Algerian crisis has deferred it again.

His recent statements and those of his pre-programmed supporters give a pretty good idea of his approach.

Although the euro was launched with the solemn, binding promise that no country would ever be liable for the debts of another, he wants to encourage the eurozone countries to create a debt union. Every firm with financially shaky customers wants them to get their affairs in order and pay their bills. So it is understandable that he should try to shore up our customers. It is doubtful that the euro can survive its own contradictions in the long term , so this may but defer the day of reckoning..

When the eurozone forms its single economic, financial and budget structure it will de facto inevitably become one country politically but with the voting power of all seventeen countries. It will be like a vastly strengthened version of the Elysee treaty by which France and Germany came to a common position before every EU meeting, easily outvoting Britain. So we will certainly be a second class EU member if we stay in.

Mr Cameron therefore wants to renegotiate Britain's terms of membership. In this, he is either deluding himself or deceiving the people. Powers once taken by the EU can never be returned to member states. To do so would require unanimous agreement. As Mr. Cameron has said he is determined to stay in the EU, there is no reason why either the Commission or the member states should take him seriously. Mr Wilson tried and failed to do this in 1975. His failure did not prevent him from procaliming that concessions allowing imports of New Zealand butter and lamb represented a “fundamental renegotiation” . His referendum leaflet falsely proclaimed “Britain's New Deal in Europe”. No powers were repatriated.

The credible way of amicably negotiating a new relationship with the EU is under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. This lays down a procedure for negotiation to ensure continuing free trade and it does not require unanimity. But to invoke it, you first have to serve notice to quit the EU. So far, there is little evidence that Mr. Cameron, any MP or national newspaper is aware of this Article.

It is also said that to be outside the EU would lead to “govenment by fax” from Brussels - having to apply regulations which we had no part in making. Yet, as a member of EFTA, Norway has the right to refuse any EU Directive and did so with the third Directive on postal services. Norway can keep its post office as a public service, not ruined like ours by being forced into a rigged EU “market” in postal services.

Additionally, many countries enjoy free trade with the EU and are not members of the Single Market. The independent Labour peer Lord Stoddart of Swindon asked whether current negotiations with Japan, Canada, Singapore and Morocco meant that these countries would be wholly governed by EU rules..

Responding for the government, Lord Green said “It is not the case that as a result of these trade negotiations the countries concerned will have to adopt all the legislation and regulations that apply to EU member states”.

For safeguarding trade and jobs, continued subjection to the EU is simply unnecessary.

[daddybear]

I will vote for them but I dont expect them to save us. Some of the stuff Farage says scares me but I hope he is just trying to be a little more mainstream so he has a chance.

Swapping free movement within the EU with free movement within the commonwealth is going to be even worse. He goes on about how we have better ties with the Commonwealth so it makes me wonder.

Personally if the EU was just Scandinavia, Germany and other western EU countries, and run for the benefit of the people living there, I doubt anyone would have much of a problem

Nobody is suggesting free movement within the commonwealth, international aid should be implicitly used as a bribe to develop countries with the intention of keeping their citizens in their own country and not coming here

[Danny Deflation]

I predict UKIP will still not have a single MP after the next election, despite being in thrid place in the popular vote. Hopefully this will show up the farce that is FPTP.

I also predict millions upon millions of morons will vote for Red, Yellow or Blue as per normal and then continue to wonder why their rear is so sore from being continualy raped.

Does anyone actually vote Lib Dem anymore? They're an irrelevance.

We know how bad the reds are, and the blues aren't much better: one sings to the tune of the unions, the other looks after its wealthy sponsors. Neither will give us an in-out referendum on Europe - despite their promises.

UKIP all the way for me.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

I predict UKIP will still not have a single MP after the next election, despite being in thrid place in the popular vote. Hopefully this will show up the farce that is FPTP.

I predict they will get at least 5 MPs or at a shock more in the next Election. Still two years + to go and their support and MEMBERSHIP is growing daily thanks to Media exposure. People are now seeing what a farce the EU is and are frightened at the open borders policy. The reason Dave is filling his pants with a lot of his MPs favouring the UKIP way forward.

I also predict at least the following Lib/Dems MPs will lose their seats.

Nick Clegg

David Laws

Danny Alexander

Simon Hughes