Young Can Not Cope With Life

[Game_Over]

I would be really interested on your views as to what specifically in the education system is ruining kids' life chances.

Another example - my sons A level Physics final mark included a lab session.

When he went to get his results he just missed out on an A grade overall because he was given a U for the lab session.

When we queried this, all the other students with the odd exception also got a U for this lab session.

After talking to my son, he said that no one could do it, but that the girl next to him just made up some results so got a pass mark.

I tried to pursue this at the time, but all the relevant staff went off sick.

As my son needed AAB for his first choice Uni place and he got A's in his other 2 subjects I gave up at that point - but another member of staff told me that some students had lost their Uni places as a result of this.

After talking to my son later, it turns out someones unqualified wife had been paid to invigilate the session and had not realised that the students had been given the wrong equipment to perform the experiment.

Whether anyone who lost their first choice Uni places as a result of this ever got any redress for this I don't know

But I doubt they could have.

[shipbuilder]

Another example - my sons A level Physics final mark included a lab session.

When he went to get his results he just missed out on an A grade overall because he was given a U for the lab session.

When we queried this, all the other students with the odd exception also got a U for this lab session.

After talking to my son, he said that no one could do it, but that the girl next to him just made up some results so got a pass mark.

I tried to pursue this at the time, but all the relevant staff went off sick.

As my son needed AAB for his first choice Uni place and he got A's in his other 2 subjects I gave up at that point - but another member of staff told me that some students had lost their Uni places as a result of this.

After talking to my son later, it turns out someones unqualified wife had been paid to invigilate the session and had not realised that the students had been given the wrong equipment to perform the experiment.

Whether anyone who lost their first choice Uni places as a result of this ever got any redress for this I don't know

But I doubt they could have.

To be fair, both your examples are of the administration and marking of exams, presumably in one school or at least one exam board? It seems unfair to paint the entire education system with the same brush.

Given that your sons got the results that they did, surely their actual education in the decade or so up to that point can't have been that bad?

[Bull]

Another example - my sons A level Physics final mark included a lab session.

When he went to get his results he just missed out on an A grade overall because he was given a U for the lab session.

When we queried this, all the other students with the odd exception also got a U for this lab session.

After talking to my son, he said that no one could do it, but that the girl next to him just made up some results so got a pass mark.

I tried to pursue this at the time, but all the relevant staff went off sick.

As my son needed AAB for his first choice Uni place and he got A's in his other 2 subjects I gave up at that point - but another member of staff told me that some students had lost their Uni places as a result of this.

After talking to my son later, it turns out someones unqualified wife had been paid to invigilate the session and had not realised that the students had been given the wrong equipment to perform the experiment.

Whether anyone who lost their first choice Uni places as a result of this ever got any redress for this I don't know

But I doubt they could have.

I remember you whinging about this before and I was fortunate to have a look at the Physics ISAs you talk about - they are very very easy -whole cohorts of students were scoring very highly so tbh it doesn't say very much about your son's ability in A level Physics. The practical part of the ISA is not worth very many marks. Perhaps if you are such an expert in such matters you can actually do something about it rather than producing trite one dimensionals posts on HPC.

[winkie]

It is not about how many notches you have accomplished or how you were scored, what you can remember or who you can fool....it is what you can do with the knowledge you have accumulated, everything is out there for free, it is how you use it not how much you own of it.

[Si1]

It is not about how many notches you have accomplished or how you were scored, what you can remember or who you can fool....it is what you can do with the knowledge you have accumulated, everything is out there for free, it is how you use it not how much you own of it.

in that case it is a real concern the amount of innumeracy and illiteracy out there - with it, bright students can look to keep their own books, understand contracts and run their own businesses; without it they become dependant

this is real, and it divides the nation

[winkie]

in that case it is a real concern the amount of innumeracy and illiteracy out there - with it, bright students can look to keep their own books, understand contracts and run their own businesses; without it they become dependant

this is real, and it divides the nation

Unfortunately there is no university degree that teaches you how to run your own business....simply because there are very few lecturers/teachers that have experienced running their own business.....you learn from your own actions not what they teach you parrot like fashion.....they have probably said the same thing over and over again to many classes, all the while the real world has changed without them even noticing.

[Game_Over]

I remember you whinging about this before and I was fortunate to have a look at the Physics ISAs you talk about - they are very very easy -whole cohorts of students were scoring very highly so tbh it doesn't say very much about your son's ability in A level Physics. The practical part of the ISA is not worth very many marks. Perhaps if you are such an expert in such matters you can actually do something about it rather than producing trite one dimensionals posts on HPC.

It isn't easy if you are given the wrong equipment.

And some students lost their first choice university places as a result of this.

The two examples I have given are just two of literally dozens I could quote - these are not even the worst.

I gave the examples to back up my point about the state education system failing pupils - when someone stated they would be really interested in details of how the system fails pupils.

But as I said - no one wants to believe these stories.

My kids all did well because of the thousands of hours they spent working and studying at home.

This should not have been necessary - because they are all exceptionally bright

but if they hadn't have done this they would have failed.

The reason I keep whingeing on about it is because I am still scarred by the experience and I feel sorry for the parents and children who were chewed up and spat out by the system - which is an utter disgrace.

As to doing anything about it, just getting my own kids through was a nightmare - I really can't be responsible for what happens to anyone else's children.

All I can do is wish people luck.

[Game_Over]

To be fair, both your examples are of the administration and marking of exams, presumably in one school or at least one exam board? It seems unfair to paint the entire education system with the same brush.

Given that your sons got the results that they did, surely their actual education in the decade or so up to that point can't have been that bad?

I used to tell a relative these stories and they were not interested.

They subsequently decided to go into teaching.

They have now left teaching after being completely unable to cope with the unfairness and chaos.

Had they listened to me in the first place they could have saved themselves three years of blood, sweat and tears.

[Big Orange]

Exactly, everything is targeted on getting as many kids as possible to pass the meaningless 5 C's yardstick; if the bright kids who could've gone to Oxbridge end up dossing around for the rest of their lives so what? As long as they count as a pass they don't care.

Getting Bs and Cs in GCSEs did not seem meaningless to me at the time, but I was only 16 and it was a very long time ago way back in 2001.

I don't think people have gotten dumber, it's that the economic system in the UK/West seems terminally broke and unable to tap into native population as well as it use to.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Big Orange

[SHERWICK]

Getting Bs and Cs in GCSEs did not seem meaningless to me at the time, but I was only 16 and it was a very long time ago way back in 2001.

I don't think people have gotten dumber, it's that the economic system in the UK/West seems terminally broke and unable to tap into native population as well as it use to.

Geez, 2001 is now considered a very long time ago.

[jamesbond33]

I'd like to see the numbers of 18-35 year olds on anti depressants. I know of quite a few through family members and close friends who pop the SSRI's. Generally speaking its the kids of parents who don't have money as they realise that however hard they work they'll never have the advantages that wealthy parents bring.

I am surprised their not bitter and angry at low wages, high house prices - they don't seem too bothered.

[Goat]

I remember you whinging........

Full of.

[Goat]

It is not about how many notches you have accomplished or how you were scored, what you can remember or who you can fool....it is what you can do with the knowledge you have accumulated, everything is out there for free, it is how you use it not how much you own of it.

Have you ever visited the real world?

[Goat]

Exactly, everything is targeted on getting as many kids as possible to pass the meaningless 5 C's yardstick

Getting Bs and Cs in GCSEs did not seem meaningless to me at the time, but I was only 16 and it was a very long time ago way back in 2001.

The problem is not just the result itself (althought that seems to have been dumbed down since 2001 as well); the problem is what counts towards the yardstick of 5 A-C GCSE's.

One might reasonably suspect that someone reaching the yardstick has achieved C or better at 5 GCSE's of something like Maths, English, Physics, Geography, French or similar academic subjects.

The reality is that lots of schools tend to guide puplis towards meaningless but easy to pass subjects, for example: how about substituting 4 of the above for a BTEC first diploma if Florestry (I s*** you not).

That is how s*** the system is.

[Venger]

I was just talking about this the other day to Mrs What's'isname. One of my first jobs took me to Port Sunlight on a regular basis and I thought it was lovely. It speaks volumes that housing provided for the workers in the 1890s is much more desirable to most people than the majority of the private housing built today!

How far we have fallen as a nation

Work commenced on Port Sunlight in 1888. Between 1899 and 1914, 800 houses were built to house a population of 3,500.

I'd be very surprised if those houses weren't Edwardian period, which saw many attractive houses built in England in a house building boom.

Edward VII reigned from 1901 to 1910, but the Edwardian period is generally extended to the outbreak of the First World War in 1914. Edward's reign was short but influential. The atmosphere of the period was influenced by the king and his love of the good life, which contrasted sharply with the puritanical values of the Victorian ideal. This short era saw a huge housing boom as suburbs sprung up around every city and large town. The new middle classes wanted affordable, manageable-sized homes within commuting distance of their work, and they flocked to the outskirts.

As reaction against the Victorian preoccupation with industry, pastiche and mass production, the architecture was gentler and more decorative, harking back to a more rural way of life. Accentuated gables, chimneystacks, buttresses, and inglenook fireplaces. It's in the entrance hall of an Edwardian house that the difference is apparent. With slightly wider hallways and stairs a home of this era may feel larger than its predecessors. Externally, even in modest homes, the influence of the Arts and Crafts movement is often noticeable, with some terraces faced with a more 'cottagey' red brick, and roofs tiled with the more rustic clay plain tiles. Plain sash windows were sometimes now relegated to back windows, and casement windows, or rural-style multi-paned sashes, were introduced at the front. And then there's the painted woodwork. Increased mechanization and cheap labour had allowed even quite ordinary Edwardian terraces to benefit from an elaborate trim.

An Englishman's home is said to be his castle. And it was at this point that builders began to answer the demands for a bit more privacy and land from people who couldn't afford a detached house. Each pair of Edwardian semis was, in some way unique, with different detailing in, for example, the half timbering, or the stained glass. The new semis appealed to architects who could produce houses in an English vernacular more easily with a broader frontage, and could move away from the dark layout of the Victorian terrace. And semis were popular with builders too, who realised that attached properties could be sold at a premium.

[200p]

The reality is that lots of schools tend to guide puplis towards meaningless but easy to pass subjects, for example: how about substituting 4 of the above for a BTEC first diploma if Florestry (I s*** you not).

That is how s*** the system is.

Easy to pass and easy to teach, and easy to hit "targets". "Quick wins" they call it.

[DeepLurker]

I am surprised their not bitter and angry at low wages, high house prices - they don't seem too bothered.

It's difficult to rebel against the Matrix when it's all you've ever known - hell, 20 years ago when I flew the parental nest, I moved into HMOs because renting was so damned expensive, but that was just the way things were, I never thought that the system was broken. Took me nearly a decade to put my thinking cap on.

[winkie]

Have you ever visited the real world?

The world has changed, it is now no longer what you are and what you know without the need of a certificate/medal it is what you managed to get with privilege, where you got it and how much you can exploit it......if I were to employ someone it would not be with a tick the box triple A memory test it would be with a common sense practical test.....pass that and you are in business.

[StainlessSteelCat]

Geez, 2001 is now considered a very long time ago.

In fairness, it probably seems that way if you are only 27.

[Game_Over]

The world has changed, it is now no longer what you are and what you know without the need of a certificate/medal it is what you managed to get with privilege, where you got it and how much you can exploit it......if I were to employ someone it would not be with a tick the box triple A memory test it would be with a common sense practical test.....pass that and you are in business.

Nu Labour destroyed social mobility in this country

In the Thatcher years any working class kid with brains and ambition could make it

Now the whole system is designed to elevate thick middle class kids at the expense of exceptional working class kids.

Course work will elevate a B grade student in a private school to an A grade student - because the school does it for them - FACT

In a state school it will drag a B grade student down to a C because the kids are left to sink.

And everyone in the system knows this.

My sons teaching for one of his pieces of English coursework was 3 unsupervised lessons watching a Shrek video over and over again.

I could fill a book with this kind of anecdote - but the stress of writing it would kill me.

[Injin]

Nu Labour destroyed social mobility in this country

Nope, was destroyed waaaay back in 1929, this is just the past coming to fruition.

In the Thatcher years any working class kid with brains and ambition could make it

Nope, never been true and certainly not then.

Now the whole system is designed to elevate thick middle class kids at the expense of exceptional working class kids.

It's actually designed to discard normal people and find sociopaths and the incredibly morally flexible to rule the normal. The whole pint of the state education system is NOT to teach anything - it's to split people up into relative categories (to their own cohort) that is - an "A" grade should only have so many, a "B" only so many and so on. The actual quality of the exams is irrelevent to this process.

Course work will elevate a B grade student in a private school to an A grade student - because the school does it for them - FACT

In a state school it will drag a B grade student down to a C because the kids are left to sink.

And everyone in the system knows this.

My sons teaching for one of his pieces of English coursework was 3 unsupervised lessons watching a Shrek video over and over again.

I could fill a book with this kind of anecdote - but the stress of writing it would kill me.

There is a sound basis for not splitting people into categorical once and for all categories and it's this -

Most people can do most things, if you let them and they want to.

[Game_Over]

Nope, was destroyed waaaay back in 1929, this is just the past coming to fruition.

Nope, never been true and certainly not then.

It's actually designed to discard normal people and find sociopaths and the incredibly morally flexible to rule the normal. The whole pint of the state education system is NOT to teach anything - it's to split people up into relative categories (to their own cohort) that is - an "A" grade should only have so many, a "B" only so many and so on. The actual quality of the exams is irrelevent to this process.

There is a sound basis for not splitting people into categorical once and for all categories and it's this -

Most people can do most things, if you let them and they want to.

You just can't resist me

And - no they can't

most people can do at least something well - very few people can do everything well

[Injin]

You just can't resist me

I respond to more or less everything here.

And - no they can't

most people can do at least something well - very few people can do everything well

Never said otherwise.

Learn to read.

And think.

[Game_Over]

I respond to more or less everything here.

Never said otherwise.

Learn to read.

And think.

You love me really

And your problem is you 'think' too much

Hasta la Vista

[doomed]

Nope, was destroyed waaaay back in 1929, this is just the past coming to fruition.

Nope, never been true and certainly not then.

It's actually designed to discard normal people and find sociopaths and the incredibly morally flexible to rule the normal. The whole pint of the state education system is NOT to teach anything - it's to split people up into relative categories (to their own cohort) that is - an "A" grade should only have so many, a "B" only so many and so on. The actual quality of the exams is irrelevent to this process.

There is a sound basis for not splitting people into categorical once and for all categories and it's this -

Most people can do most things, if you let them and they want to.

How can you say grammar schools did not let talented people from poor backgrounds go on to do well. Getting rid of these has entrapped so many bright people to a not too bright future.