Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Germany Deports Elderly To Asian "granny" Camps


Recommended Posts

Growing numbers of elderly and sick Germans are being sent overseas for long-term care in retirement and rehabilitation centres because of rising costs and falling standards in Germany.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes

Should free up some housing.

I think that UK benefits claiments should be sent to Chinese Foxconn work camps after a year on benefits and would have to work their passage home.

Edited by davidg
Link to post
Share on other sites

They've got an ageing population like us, what other solution is there?

Let market signals do their job, and let wages rise to attract the necessary workers?

That of course would mean allowing part of the nations income to shift from those that are overpaid as signaled by the market by an excessive surplus of potential candidates (lawyers, CEO's, accountants, council exec's, MP's, etc)), to where wages are too low to attract enough candidates as is the case here.

Edited by alexw
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that UK benefits claiments should be sent to Chinese Foxconn work camps after a year on benefits and would have to work their passage home.

I think UK MPs and the whole government should be outsourced to India, Indians will do the same job for a lot less money... <_<

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even as a voluntary option millions would probably take it.. Do you want to be treated in Thailand, where you get a personal nurse, live in the sun and beaches, or go to a dreary, cold underfunded hospital, and hopefully one of the elderly overworked, union nurses can find time for you.

Basically Europe is at the point where the taxes/rentiers have made the cost of living so high, that nothing makes sense to do at home.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Let market signals do their job, and let wages rise to attract the necessary workers?

That of course would mean allowing part of the nations income to shift from those that are overpaid as signaled by the market by an excessive surplus of potential candidates (lawyers, CEO's, accountants, council exec's, MP's, etc)), to where wages are too low to attract enough candidates as is the case here.

The market can do its job. C4 documentary a few years ago had a guy with a couple of nursing homes, granny farming, living in a mansion, and bling cars. The care home was offering very poor quality of care. Demoralised workers, cut backs on them having a free lunch, and very little money spent on any entertainment or stimulus for the residents. The owner was trying to sell him mansion for £4m because fewer people were going into care, during 2008/09. A fall in those going in to care because they couldn't sell their homes (for what they wanted and were entitled to for them.)

New entrant businesses should come into the market. Have you seen what Germany is charging?

The reasons are rising care home costs – which average between €2,900 and €3,400 (£2,700) a month, stagnating pensions, and the fact that people are more likely to need care as they get older.

If there is no clause in the German insurance against it, fair play to the insurer for shipping them out somewhere cheaper. And when it's the state picking up the tab, who pays for the higher wages for these carers you call for? Taxpayers.

The same option is open to elderly people in the UK, fearing care home costs. Go abroad and pay less for care homes there. Instead those looking towards old-age are now calling for a cap on the amount they have to pay towards UK care costs. There is NO cap in place at the moment. They don't want to downsize or sell their homes, and want to be able to leave big inheritances to their children.

Similar fee structure exists in the UK for care homes as in Germany. Option is also open for UK people to go into care abroad at cheaper rates, and pay less than in the UK. Option is also open to set up in competition and make some money before hitting old age and needing care.

How many UK care homes have been closing lately? The socialist answer always seems to be, we must pay whatever new peak they've put the fees up to this year.

Edited by Venger
Link to post
Share on other sites

The market can do its job. C4 documentary a few years ago had a guy with a couple of nursing homes, granny farming, living in a mansion, and bling cars. The care home was offering very poor quality of care. Demoralised workers, cut backs on them having a free lunch, and very little money spent on any entertainment or stimulus for the residents. The owner was trying to sell him mansion for £4m because fewer people were going into care, during 2008/09. A fall in those going in to care because they couldn't sell their homes (for what they wanted and were entitled to for them.)

New entrant businesses should come into the market. Have you seen what Germany is charging?

If there is no clause in the German insurance against it, fair play to the insurer for shipping them out somewhere cheaper. And when it's the state picking up the tab, who pays for the higher wages for these carers you call for? Taxpayers.

The same option is open to elderly people in the UK, fearing care home costs. Go abroad and pay less for care homes there. Instead those looking towards old-age are now calling for a cap on the amount they have to pay towards UK care costs. There is NO cap in place at the moment. They don't want to downsize or sell their homes, and want to be able to leave big inheritances to their children.

Similar fee structure exists in the UK for care homes as in Germany. Option is also open for UK people to go into care abroad at cheaper rates, and pay less than in the UK. Option is also open to set up in competition and make some money before hitting old age and needing care.

How many UK care homes have been closing lately? The socialist answer always seems to be, we must pay whatever new peak they've put the fees up to this year.

You are right, only the marketplace can deliver actual results. Its why the socialism I believe in is like old age pension and welfare cheques. As opposed to government collective farms, food ration cards, government ran medical care, etc.

The NHS is a textbook example of what happens in socialism. When first nationalized the original private organizations are still functional. And there is wide popularity in the program. In time costs keep rising and rising, and the quality of care declines. Shortages eventually emerge, it is inevitable in a monopolistic environment. Politically connected people rise up through the ranks, bureaucracy gradually takes over. People who try to reform the system within, and there are thousands of them, are fighting a losing battle against human nature. Eventually the system is unable to carry out its basic functions.

That socialist answer that we must pay whatever the new peak always wins, and taxes go up.. until the society actually is incapable of paying more taxes. When taxes are raised now in the UK, tax revenues actually fall, as we are past the 'peak taxation'. Yet the costs of the system to deliver per unit of service, keep rising. So it becomes untenable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let market signals do their job, and let wages rise to attract the necessary workers?

You mean to attract the talent? Nah that only every applies to CEO's and bankers. Everyone else has to be screwed to the ground on wages to give them an incentive.wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

They've got an ageing population like us, what other solution is there?

Surely the next step is to pretend to deport the elderly to Asian "granny" camps, but really to send them on a short, final one-way trip?

With their organisational skills, the Germans could even arrange for relatives to regularly receive detailed updates on how their elderly relative is getting on in their (non-existent) care home in Thailand. Photo updates might be tricky to keep going over the years, but the lack of aging could be explained by the climate - and the excellent care from all those smiling carers.

Meeting the demand for in-person visits could be tricky, but you see, the imaginary care homes are quite remote and travel in Thailand is so difficult at this time of year. Besides, she's rather forgetful (but happy) these days - a visit might be a bit disruptive for her. If necessary, the "deportee" could take a turn for the worse if the relatives insist on scheduling a visit ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

The market can do its job. C4 documentary a few years ago had a guy with a couple of nursing homes, granny farming, living in a mansion, and bling cars. The care home was offering very poor quality of care. Demoralised workers, cut backs on them having a free lunch, and very little money spent on any entertainment or stimulus for the residents. The owner was trying to sell him mansion for £4m because fewer people were going into care, during 2008/09. A fall in those going in to care because they couldn't sell their homes (for what they wanted and were entitled to for them.)

New entrant businesses should come into the market. Have you seen what Germany is charging?

If there is no clause in the German insurance against it, fair play to the insurer for shipping them out somewhere cheaper. And when it's the state picking up the tab, who pays for the higher wages for these carers you call for? Taxpayers.

The same option is open to elderly people in the UK, fearing care home costs. Go abroad and pay less for care homes there. Instead those looking towards old-age are now calling for a cap on the amount they have to pay towards UK care costs. There is NO cap in place at the moment. They don't want to downsize or sell their homes, and want to be able to leave big inheritances to their children.

Similar fee structure exists in the UK for care homes as in Germany. Option is also open for UK people to go into care abroad at cheaper rates, and pay less than in the UK. Option is also open to set up in competition and make some money before hitting old age and needing care.

How many UK care homes have been closing lately? The socialist answer always seems to be, we must pay whatever new peak they've put the fees up to this year.

I find it hilarious that when i advocate for something that is 100% free-market based, the supposed free marketeers ( i presume because it benefits the low paid) suggest its that dreaded 'socialism'.

If demand (for care workers) outstrips supply (of care workers) then is not the price supposed to rise to stimulate further supply? Is that not the basis of the whole free-market ethos? Or is it the free market when it causes the incomes of the already well paid to rise, but it's socialism when it causes the incomes of the low paid to rise? Please please enlighten me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They've got an ageing population like us, what other solution is there?

The solution was to have people save for their own retirement, and not depend on the smaller, geographically mobile and already overburdened next generation to pay for their care...(who will - and should - desert their country when their country treats them as cows to milk)

And that 'was' was physical, desireable globally tradeable assets (gold and silver), not worthless greek paper. Of course,its doubtful the EU would allow for that.

A state pension system can only ever be a ponzi scheme as a free lunch for the first entrants is the only way people will allow such a travesty to be set up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 434 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.