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Government To Tax The View From Your House

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Sunday Telegraph

Having a nice view or living next door to a golf course are going to cost householders more in council tax in labour plans..............................If you enjoy full or partial views of the sea, hills mountains lakes or rivers.

Well that's me fecked then!

Come home to a real fire.......................................Buy a holiday home in Wales

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Hello, I’m a long time reader first time poster. This sounded very familier so I searched the internet.

Here is somat I dug up…

“In 1696 a new tax on housing replaced the Hearth Tax which had been ended a few years earlier. One of the chief objections to the latter had been that it could involve the intrusion of inspectors into private dwellings, in contrast the Window Tax was assessed from outside. Nevertheless it was objected to on the grounds that it was a tax on light and air. The tax was imposed on the occupiers , not the owners, and small dwellings whose occupants did not pay  poor or church rate were exempt, others were charged on an increasing scale. Householders would reduce their totals by blocking up non essential windows, and for this reason the total yield fell instead of rising. In 1747 a new Act was passed with an increasing sliding scale depending on how many windows there were ! It was finally abolished in 1851. The few extant records are at the PRO, they have the name and address of the tax payer, number of windows and amount of tax paid”

The government are looking for more and more ways to debt enslave the population so are hitting the archives to reinvent old and unacceptable tax methods. The have disguised and put a lot of spin on the old window tax, if window tax was not dressed up in this way people would be rioting!

:angry:

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Surely your taxed on your property having a great view already. First of all the view would have increased the value of the property therefore cost more leading to higher stamp duty. The higher value would put it into a higher council tax bracket anyway.

Sounds to me as though they had to pull back on re-evaluating the council tax brackets earlier this year and are now looking at any and everyway of of gaining some higher revenue.

Who determines that the view is worthy of a higher tax bracket?? Are we all going to have a 'View' inspector coming over next year to determine this? What a crazy country this is turning into!

50% more pensioners doing time next year no doubt.

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Government to tax the view from your house, Sunday Telegraph, 06/11/05

Surely you're taxed on your property having a great view already. First of all the view would have increased the value of the property therefore cost more leading to higher stamp duty. The higher value would put it into a higher council tax bracket anyway.

Quite.

However, what your concise trashing of this seemingly feeble minded tax proposal neglects is :

a ) jobs for the boys who developed the database

b ) jobs for the boys who will maintain the database

c ) jobs for the boys who will patrol the land intruding into people's privacy

d ) the ability of spooks to enter your property under the pretence of banding excercises

e ) the fact that if only market price determined the band, Blair's London pad would incur even higher charges.

The Telegraph's other lead story ( The Thames: awash with cocaine, Telegraph, 06/11/05 ), makes one wonder, given the continuous reycling of London's water supply, whether the gov should consider an "on-tap-coke-tax" for the capital's residents. It is after all, a benefit in kind ....

Edited by Sledgehead

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Government to tax the view from your house, Sunday Telegraph, 06/11/05

Quite.

However, what your concise trashing of this seemingly feeble minded tax proposal neglects is :

a ) jobs for the boys who developed the database

b ) jobs for the boys who will maintain the database

c ) jobs for the boys who will patrol the land intruding into people's privacy

d ) the ability of spooks to enter your property under the pretence of banding excercises

e ) the fact that if only market price determined the band, Blair's London pad would incur even higher charges.

If you're going to have a property tax, you have to value the properties you're going to be taxing. And a property tax is reasonably fair, and cheap and easy to collect and administer. So what do you propose as an alternative? With regard to your points c) and d), I'm not aware that there is any power for government officials to enter your home in order to value it -- do you have any references for this extraordinary claim? And I don't understand your point e) at all.

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Hello, I’m a long time reader first time poster. This sounded very familier so I searched the internet.

Here is somat I dug up…

“In 1696 a new tax on housing replaced the Hearth Tax which had been ended a few years earlier. One of the chief objections to the latter had been that it could involve the intrusion of inspectors into private dwellings, in contrast the Window Tax was assessed from outside. Nevertheless it was objected to on the grounds that it was a tax on light and air. The tax was imposed on the occupiers , not the owners, and small dwellings whose occupants did not pay  poor or church rate were exempt, others were charged on an increasing scale. Householders would reduce their totals by blocking up non essential windows, and for this reason the total yield fell instead of rising. In 1747 a new Act was passed with an increasing sliding scale depending on how many windows there were ! It was finally abolished in 1851. The few extant records are at the PRO, they have the name and address of the tax payer, number of windows and amount of tax paid”

The government are looking for more and more ways to debt enslave the population so are hitting the archives to reinvent old and unacceptable tax methods. The have disguised and put a lot of spin on the old window tax, if window tax was not dressed up in this way people would be rioting!

:angry:

This where the term "Daylight Robbery" comes from B)

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If you're going to have a property tax, you have to value the properties you're going to be taxing. And a property tax is reasonably fair, and cheap and easy to collect and administer. So what do you propose as an alternative? With regard to your points c) and d), I'm not aware that there is any power for government officials to enter your home in order to value it -- do you have any references for this extraordinary claim? And I don't understand your point e) at all.

zorn, you are just so obviously the NuLab mole people have been wondering about.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

(Large type, just so that everyone knows. )

Anyone who has any questions on government policy should just PM zorn (as opposed to PM Dawn, a 90s rapper - you might wanna know that zorn, could "get you down" with the 30 somethings).

Hey zorn, you know how your SIPPS idea is worrying the sh!t outta potential FTBs in the countryside (ie pricing them out)? Is this "view tax" the coup de grace? You'll soon have all those country sorts replaced by weekend yuppies. Shame really, to enter a country pub in search of olde worlde charm, only to be greeted with the bumptious ordering of gin and tonics...

Edited by Sledgehead

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I'm going to enjoy this, good luck Zorn trying to defend this. I can't being to imagine the level of resentment, mistrust, appeals, and downright confusion this ill thought out tax change could create. If you can't see the scope for utter chaos that this sort of system would generate then all I can say is that you must be as myopic as the govt. that considers such a scheme.

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Looks like Mr Blair is after us country folk again because we don’t vote for him, live in the cities or Prescotts north.

I live in a small market town in Devon and can’t help see open countryside – mind you I could fix opaque glass in the windows that have a view.

PS – Well he did protect the fox from us nasty country folk. :blink:

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...Zorn...you must be as myopic as the govt. that considers such a scheme.

OnlyMe, he IS the government that is considering this scheme.

Edited by Sledgehead

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A NuLab state is a state in which the government maintains strict political or social control over the population without adhering to the rule of law. It is the antithesis of the Rechtsstaat.

The term usually only refers to a regime which claims that the exercise of political power by the state is not subject to law, although regimes which disregard the law in practice may nevertheless constitute police states as a matter of fact, regardless of whether or not they claim to abide by the rule of law.

In contemporary popular usage, "police state" is often considered to be synonymous with "dictatorship". As it has become a term of opprobrium, the formerly narrowly defined and technical definition of the police state has been expanded in recent decades to sometimes include regimes which do not respect individual rights and freedoms, whether or not these rights and freedoms are enshrined in law. At other times the term may sometimes conveys nothing more than disapproval of the policies of a certain government.

Modern police states usually employ some sort of SECRET POLICE or similar apparatus, although these elements are not considered essential to the definition. The best-known literary treatment of this sort of police state is George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, which describes a totalitarian régime that uses the threat of constant war as a pretext for subjecting the people to continuous mass surveillance in all aspects of their lives.

;)

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Modern police states usually employ some sort of SECRET POLICE or similar apparatus, ... uses the threat of constant war as a pretext for subjecting the people to continuous mass surveillance

d ) the ability of spooks to enter your property under the pretence of banding excercises

I'm not aware that there is any power for government officials to enter your home in order to value it -- do you have any references for this extraordinary claim*?

From Channel4, Money

Can a bailiff force his/her way into my house?

Apart from special cases involving Customs & Excise or the Inland Revenue, a bailiff cannot force entry into your home.

Dear NuLabour, we at HPC object to your assumption that we are incapable of countering posts made by your agent, zorn. Please find somebody else to do your work. Cheers. :lol::lol::lol:

(* so Alistair Campbell, don't you think? :lol: )

Edited by Sledgehead

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If you're going to have a property tax, you have to value the properties you're going to be taxing. And a property tax is reasonably fair, and cheap and easy to collect and administer. So what do you propose as an alternative? With regard to your points c) and d), I'm not aware that there is any power for government officials to enter your home in order to value it -- do you have any references for this extraordinary claim? And I don't understand your point e) at all.

I'm not a great fan on them, but one thing the LibDems have got right is to ditch property taxation in favour of a local income tax.

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I'm not aware that there is any power for government officials to enter your home in order to value it -- do you have any references for this extraordinary claim*?

From Channel4, Money

Can a bailiff force his/her way into my house?

Apart from special cases involving Customs & Excise or the Inland Revenue, a bailiff cannot force entry into your home.

Dear NuLabour, we at HPC object to your assumption that we are incapable of countering posts made by your agent, zorn. Please find somebody else to do your work. Cheers. :lol::lol::lol:

(* so Alistair Campbell, don't you think? :lol: )

That refers to bailiffs collecting tax, not to the council tax revaluation. Do you have any evidence that officials of the Valuations Office Agency are entitled to enter your home on order to value your property, or are you just talking rubbish for the sake of it?

I'm going to enjoy this, good luck Zorn trying to defend this. I can't being to imagine the level of resentment, mistrust, appeals, and downright confusion this ill thought out tax change could create. If you can't see the scope for utter chaos that this sort of system would generate then all I can say is that you must be as myopic as the govt. that considers such a scheme.

What change? There is no change? Council tax is based on property values, same as it ever was (and it was introduced by the Tories, don't forget, including the notion of periodic revaluations, so you should expect Tory stooges to be defending it, not Labour ones). This is just a newspaper trying to stir up controversy for the sake of it.

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I'm not a great fan on them, but one thing the LibDems have got right is to ditch property taxation in favour of a local income tax.

I'm inclined to agree, but you do realise that it would put upward pressure on house prices, right? It would reduce the cost of buying a more expensive house, as you wouldn't face a council tax increase.

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That refers to bailiffs collecting tax, not to the council tax revaluation. Do you have any evidence that officials of the Valuations Office Agency are entitled to enter your home on order to value your property, or are you just talking rubbish for the sake of it?

So if I maintain I don't have an extra bedroom and they disagree, what happens next eh?

What change? There is no change? Council tax is based on property values, same as it ever was

So why is all this extra data being collected? Why does the government need to know whether we have a certain sort of view or more bathrooms or a tennis court? If it's all about valuation, let the market decide and keep your spooks out of our homes!

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Guest muttley

I'm inclined to agree, but you do realise that it would put upward pressure on house prices, right? It would reduce the cost of buying a more expensive house, as you wouldn't face a council tax increase.

It would also give someone with a high income less disposable income to spend on a house.

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So if I maintain I don't have an extra bedroom and they disagree, what happens next eh?

So why is all this extra data being collected? Why does the government need to know whether we have a certain sort of view or more bathrooms or a tennis court? If it's all about valuation, let the market decide and keep your spooks out of our homes!

The only way to let the market decide is to sell every property in the country on the same day. This has proven to be impractical.

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I'm going to enjoy this, good luck Zorn trying to defend this. I can't being to imagine the level of resentment, mistrust, appeals, and downright confusion this ill thought out tax change could create.

I wonder if I misunderstood the article. The way I read it, the powers that be want a computerised system for valuing homes. The idea is that the system is given a description of a property (number of bedrooms, views, whether in conservation area, size of patio, ....) and comes up with a price estimate. This estimate is then used to determine the council tax band exactly as at present.

You might object to council tax but AFAIK it is being administered efficiently, especially in comparison to other taxes [1]. It does not seem to cause the things you 'can't begin to imagine'. It is also much harder to avoid than other taxes.

I am aware that many resent council tax. I fail to see any merit in their arguments for why they should not pay taxes and why others should. One of these arguments that I find especially weak and infuriating at the same time is that people on 'fixed incomes' should be tax-exempt, presumably because everyone else can make as much money as they like. I look forward to people objecting to profligate public spending rather than to the high taxes they are consequently made to pay.

If you can't see the scope for utter chaos that this sort of system would generate then all I can say is that you must be as myopic as the govt. that considers such a scheme.

Can you please explain how the 'new scheme' differs from what we have currently? If not, can you please explain why the current system works while the new one will not?

Thanks,

MoD

[1] I suppose it might just be that cockups on a national scale tend to get more publicity, and I would not want to speak too soon before seeing if the proposed computer system turns out to be yet another in a line of failed government IT projects.

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I'm not a great fan on them, but one thing the LibDems have got right is to ditch property taxation in favour of a local income tax.

I wonder about how it would work. Suppose there are two people both on (say) 100k. One lives in a poor area and the other in a rich area. They both have the same 'executive' new-built home on plots the same size. Which of them should pay more tax, why is that fair, and will there be any undesirable consequences? Depending on the answers, an additional question might be "so how does that differ from simply increasing the income tax".

Thanks,

MoD

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