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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Bankruptcies

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Thanx to Charlie for the pdfs. For the lazy, here's the "executive summary":

Personal bankruptcies highest in 45 years, Reuters, 05/11/05

extract:

"The number of individual insolvencies rose ... 46.0 percent on the year ... (to) the highest quarterly total since comparable records began in 1960."

Within the total (all year on year):

bankruptcies + 31%

individual voluntary arrangements + 95%

company liquidations + 14%

Edited by Sledgehead

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If you type 'bankruptcies' into google you get lots of articles from the last couple of years all saying that bankruptcies are at new record highs. Does anyone know how they compare with say 5 and 10 years ago?

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From the BBC website:

Bankruptcies rise to new record

The number of people declared bankrupt in England and Wales in the third quarter of 2005 has hit a record high.

Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) figures showed 12,043 bankruptcy cases, up 31% on the same period last year.

The DTI said there was no specific reason for the rise, which has now gone on for seven quarters in a row.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4406434.stm

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Maybe it's time the bankruptcy laws were changed? Many people see it as the easy way out of debt. Wait a couple of years and start again in their view.

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Maybe it's time the bankruptcy laws were changed? Many people see it as the easy way out of debt. Wait a couple of years and start again in their view.

Except that their creditors can pursue them even when they are out from under the bankruptcy protection. I will try to find the artical, but I think there are going to be a lot of very surprised people in a years time.

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How long is it before you can effectively have your bankrupcy removed from your records?

I don't think people seriously understand how long you could be crippled for, ok discharged after one year but surely records would show you'd been bankrupted for a hell of a lot longer then that.

Hence no one touching you with a bargepole.

It seems like it's a quck fix to a debtors problems, but the consequences are felt a lot longer!

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Three quarters into the year and we have:

Personal bankruptcies 26,231

Repossession actions 52,053

Company winding up orders 9,098

Estimated personal bankruptcies 2006 at 60,000

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How long is it before you can effectively have your bankrupcy removed from your records?

I don't think people seriously understand how long you could be crippled for, ok discharged after one year but surely records would show you'd been bankrupted for a hell of a lot longer then that.

Hence no one touching you with a bargepole.

It seems like it's a quck fix to a debtors problems, but the consequences are felt a lot longer!

I was discharged after 5 months.

Experian hold your records for 5 years.

But people will still lend you money, and even a mortgage after your discharge, but you pay through the nose for it.

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how much did you escape with Bankruptcy Idiot. Ive heard of people with over 100k+ unsecured loans going bankrupt.

i know someone in debt and they probably need out sometime.

Well I think mine was about £30k + £25k of interest. My debts almost drove me to suicide, and during that period I racked up almost as much interest as I originally borrowed.

Learnt a big lesson and never again.

So, it looks like this time round the recession will hit before the HPC - thoughts?

We are already in a recession, just no one admits to it. Have you not seen how dead town is on a Saturday/Sunday nowadays?

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how old were you when you went bankrupt if you dont mind me asking and i take it you were not a house owner at that stage then

Del.

I was a home owner. I was 26 when I was bankrupted and 26 when I was discharged. I had sold the home two and a half years before I was bankrupted.

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Guest Guy_Montag

I think that bankruptcy will become like having 3 points on your driving licence, everyone will have one & they will be valueless.

Bring back debtor's prisons or allow people to sell themselves into slavery for a few years. :)

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I think that bankruptcy will become like having 3 points on your driving licence, everyone will have one & they will be valueless.

Bring back debtor's prisons or allow people to sell themselves into slavery for a few years. :)

I thought you had to sell yourself into slavery for 44 years anyway!!

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I was a home owner. I was 26 when I was bankrupted and 26 when I was discharged. I had sold the home two and a half years before I was bankrupted.

Did you get into debt through overspending or bad investments?

I personally think it's far too easy to get into debt now, companies throw credit at people left,right and centre nowadays. Why wait a few years to save up for what you want when you can go out and buy it on credit today...?

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Three quarters into the year and we have:

Personal bankruptcies 26,231

Repossession actions 52,053

Company winding up orders 9,098

Estimated personal bankruptcies 2006 at 60,000

Are these your triggers, in that are you actively monitoring these as indications for the downturn in house prices? Basically, can you briefly say, for the uninitiated, why this is important? What other triggers are you monitoring? Interest rates is the one the masses tend to focus on with some element listening to the value of the dollar. Does the builders shares do anything for you?

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Are these your triggers, in that are you actively monitoring these as indications for the downturn in house prices? Basically, can you briefly say, for the uninitiated, why this is important? What other triggers are you monitoring? Interest rates is the one the masses tend to focus on with some element listening to the value of the dollar. Does the builders shares do anything for you?

I have been monitoring certain statistics since 2002. The increase in personal debt has been my number one. If we talk about triggers then I would say it will be the debt. Those who manage to service their huge debts will have to seriously cut down on their spending as we are seeing now, leading to job losses which begin to increase as the pack of cards starts to collapse. As BI says we are already in recession and I agree with his view. RichM as with my view could be right the recession this time will come before any house price correction. Just imagine what would happen with just a 0.75% increase in rates. Next year will be the indicator showing the true direction we are heading. Global events will also hasten the coming big bang.

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Are these your triggers, in that are you actively monitoring these as indications for the downturn in house prices? Basically, can you briefly say, for the uninitiated, why this is important? What other triggers are you monitoring? Interest rates is the one the masses tend to focus on with some element listening to the value of the dollar. Does the builders shares do anything for you?

My observation on this site is that we all have different things that 'turn us on' with the agreed end result a HPC.

For some it is debt/bankruptcies. For others it is IRs. For yet others it is an energy crisis. And then there is the trade imbalance lobby.

I guess as is often the case, it will be a combination of the above that changes things. IRs will be a 'trigger' but these will in turn be triggered by something else.

This very complexity is what makes the detail of a HPC so difficult to predict.

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Did you get into debt through overspending or bad investments?

I personally think it's far too easy to get into debt now, companies throw credit at people left,right and centre nowadays. Why wait a few years to save up for what you want when you can go out and buy it on credit today...?

Well it was mainly due to the fact that the bank would lend me what I wanted. I always paid on time. Got to a situation where I was paying all my salary in minimum payments etc and living off credit which had to be paid the following month etc. Very easy today.

What really hit it was a drop in income of about 50% That was the net result of the end of the IT boom.

But like I say I would never borrow money to buy consumables again. Maybe a Car or a House, but never petrol, food, clothes etc.

By the way this was back in 1998/1999/2000/2001, by 2002 I had given up and wrote my loses off. But I didn't go bankrupt until 4th quarter 2004.

I think I could have done a lot more damage today with my cards.

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I guess as is often the case, it will be a combination of the above that changes things. IRs will be a 'trigger' but these will in turn be triggered by something else.

This very complexity is what makes the detail of a HPC so difficult to predict.

That's right. The way I see things is similar to the "stress-diathesis" or "stress-vulnerability" model that often gets used in mental health issues.

This line of thought suggests that it is only when an individual has some kind of pre-existing weakness (e.g. a particular psychological style or biological frailty) that a particular stressor will cause problems. Conversely, in the absence of a stressor, those vulnerability factors won't cause any difficulties in themselves.

Enormous house prices in themselves might not be a problem; plenty of people won't be complaining about them now, we are very much in the minority. But come some kind of "stressor" - IR rises, wider economic problems, legal/tax changes etc etc - this underlying vulnerability could totally rip this country apart.

Anyone buying now has to get some sort of guarantee that NO type of economic stressor is going to come along in the next ten years. Hmm....

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Except that their creditors can pursue them even when they are out from under the bankruptcy protection. I will try to find the artical, but I think there are going to be a lot of very surprised people in a years time.

If thats the case, what would be the point in bankruptcy ?? <_<

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Well it was mainly due to the fact that the bank would lend me what I wanted. I always paid on time. Got to a situation where I was paying all my salary in minimum payments etc and living off credit which had to be paid the following month etc. Very easy today.

What really hit it was a drop in income of about 50% That was the net result of the end of the IT boom.

But like I say I would never borrow money to buy consumables again. Maybe a Car or a House, but never petrol, food, clothes etc.

By the way this was back in 1998/1999/2000/2001, by 2002 I had given up and wrote my loses off. But I didn't go bankrupt until 4th quarter 2004.

I think I could have done a lot more damage today with my cards.

Bank lending really is incredibly lax.

My bank occasionally write to me inviting me to borrow 20 grand or have my credit card limit increased to £25k.

Last year I phoned up Virgin credit cards to transfer a balance and the operator asked my if I'd like to transfer £3,000 into my bank account to spend on anything I like.

She said: "It's like free money!"

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If thats the case, what would be the point in bankruptcy ?? <_<

It stops the debt growing with all the added charges, interest etc etc

I think the point is that people won't end up destitute or starving. The banks would never really forget...

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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