Just Don't Understand Why Vendors Cannot Be Realistic

[jeeps]

Well after a few days of viewings with my younger bro, its had to be said that there are so many disallusioned vendors out there. Firstly the vendors perspective, the EA told me its worth this much, i.e 10-15% overprice. Ok, so you are numb, hows this then- my bro has £50k as a deposit, has a solicitor waiting to go and the mortgage is also ready, plus can move within the next 4-5 weeks, why can people in Bolton not wake up and smell up the coffee. It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

All he wants is a 4 bedroom detached for around £200k!!! If any vendors are reading this and want to stay away from idiot EA's give us a shout.

As you can see doing me nut in at mo!

[MarkG]

They're probably MEW-ed to the eyeballs, spent the money on holidays and tat, and can't afford to pay off the mortgage unless you pay over the odds.

Of course as prices drop they'll be screwed, but it's hard for most people to sell a declining asset before it declines even further (I've often fallen into that trap myself in the past, but I've pretty much learnt not to do it again ).

[Bullish Bear]

I agree.

Some vendors are being plain greedy - we went to see a house occupied by a retired couple wanting to downsize (kids moved out). They would not budge on price despite living there for 20 years! The house must have gone up 10 times in price over that period.

As long as people pay over the odds, this behaviour will not change.

[jeeps]

They're probably MEW-ed to the eyeballs, spent the money on holidays and tat, and can't afford to pay off the mortgage unless you pay over the odds.

Of course as prices drop they'll be screwed, but it's hard for most people to sell a declining asset before it declines even further (I've often fallen into that trap myself in the past, but I've pretty much learnt not to do it again ).

Just wish cud slap em with a wet fish and tell em, WAKE UP!!!! Have told my FTB bro to hang fire, he was going on about blowing the cash on a new motor! Can't wait till we all gloat when prices do come down

[msgin]

This is another one, initially on at £475,000 then reduced to £399,995 after about 6 weeks. No other house on the street has sold for more than £220,000 (according to nethouseprices), why can't they just face reality and stop being greedy?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-456...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy

[StandupBcounted]

"- my bro has £50k as a deposit, has a solicitor waiting to go and the mortgage is also ready, plus can move within the next 4-5 weeks, why can people in Bolton not wake up and smell up the coffee. It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

All he wants is a 4 bedroom detached for around £200k!!! If any vendors are reading this and want to stay away from idiot EA's give us a shout."

As you can see doing me nut in at mo!

Sounds as though he's in a great position so why the rush? Put the money away, put the solicitor on hold, and tell the estate agents you are no longer in any rush as they obviously don't have a clue about pricing property in the current market!

All the signs are there, it's happening all around us, just need to give the numb nuts breathing space to realise it for them selves.

I was in a solicitors this morning as a matter of fact, just sorting out a bit of financial admin nothing significant. However, while sitting, waiting in the corridor to be called in for my appointment, I was privy to evesdrop what sounded like a partialy heated discussion regarding a vendor having been forced to accept a 'significantly' reduced price at the last minute for their property, wanting redress from the buyer. However the solicitor was continualy repeating that there was nothing she could realisticaly do about it. Gazundering in November is alive and well so it would seem!

[dogbox]

It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

Human nature. I guarantee in 20 years time you and your brother will become stubborn vendors.

People become very attatched to thier asset. Most people always think thier pad is worth more than the one next door because they ignore the good points of next door but focus on thier own good points.

You say they are greedy but I find most English people very greedy and petty.

Irrationality is seen in other ways; People bemoan the fact that jobs are going to 'Chindia' yet in the next breath tell you how clever they are for buying a DVD player on the net for £3.79 thus exasperating the jobs - flight.

Edited November 3, 2005 by dogbox

[laughing_goat]

Well after a few days of viewings with my younger bro, its had to be said that there are so many disallusioned vendors out there. Firstly the vendors perspective, the EA told me its worth this much, i.e 10-15% overprice. Ok, so you are numb, hows this then- my bro has £50k as a deposit, has a solicitor waiting to go and the mortgage is also ready, plus can move within the next 4-5 weeks, why can people in Bolton not wake up and smell up the coffee. It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

All he wants is a 4 bedroom detached for around £200k!!! If any vendors are reading this and want to stay away from idiot EA's give us a shout.

As you can see doing me nut in at mo!

I think it has a lot to do with a lack of financial knowledge and good old human nature. Many people don't realise, if they are moving up the ladder and the value of homes rise, then they will loose money. Also, if the value of homes drop, then they will find it more difficult to sell later and ultimately be forced to drop the asking price. When the EA comes around with a 'magic' figure at which they think the home is worth, human nature dictates that you would start to mentally spend that money, so there's usually a mental barrier to excepting a lower offer. At the moment I wouldn't even think about viewing a house that hadn't been on the market for at least a few months. What is supprising at the moment is that people who have had their homes on sale for a year or more, still won't move on the price (they won't even drop the asking price). This, I believe, will be an important factor in a HPC.

Edited November 3, 2005 by laughing_goat

[Who Knows]

Well after a few days of viewings with my younger bro, its had to be said that there are so many disallusioned vendors out there. Firstly the vendors perspective, the EA told me its worth this much, i.e 10-15% overprice. Ok, so you are numb, hows this then- my bro has £50k as a deposit, has a solicitor waiting to go and the mortgage is also ready, plus can move within the next 4-5 weeks, why can people in Bolton not wake up and smell up the coffee. It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

All he wants is a 4 bedroom detached for around £200k!!! If any vendors are reading this and want to stay away from idiot EA's give us a shout.

As you can see doing me nut in at mo!

Just read the expats forum for more of these types - there are threads on there that go something like this:

am off to Oz in 2 weeks and have had house on market for 6 months. Had an offer of 20K under - they then go on to say how they rejected it - how all viewers are scum that want something for nothing etc etc

Vendors - ask yourself this - Is your own home now out of your price bracket- Has your house been on the market for over 6 months - have you had little interest - if the answer to 2 or more is YES your house is OVERPRICED - reduce it you noodlehead before it is swamped with others for sale in the new year.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Who Knows

[spline]

[puts on devil's advocate hat in the interest of balance ]

As the sellers are usually also the buyers of the next house they will be complaining about high prices as well - they will say “I need £X to be able to buy my new house” and will set the asking price accordingly. They are no greedier than FTBs asking for a huge price reduction at a time when the market is very obviously either flat or rising slowly, so why on earth should they give a complete stranger their money – after all, they are not a charity, it’s their pension pot, and they need it to buy for the next house, etc. And they’ve probably read the internet forums where FTBs are advised to offer 20% below asking just to bag a bargain irrespective of the house or it’s pricing history and then gazunder at the last minute – hardly an incentive to ‘play fair’ and be nice to FTBs.

[hat off]

Anyone who thinks prices will crash should not be out buying - and then expecting a seller (who reads the 'prices on the up again' reports) to cut the price to some future post-crash level the buyer has in mind is just plain stupid.

Edited November 3, 2005 by spline

[Guest]

I reckon a lot of people have no idea why their house prices went up in the first place. In fact, I wonder whether people realise that the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... have had simultaneous housing booms. I also wonder if they stop to think about why this might have been.

Vendors fully priced-in the approx halving of interest rates, but did not PRICE DOWN for the increase in IRs to up 4.75%. Houses ARE overvalued on the pricing fundamentals. For as long as vendors fail to realise this it it they who will hold the housing market to ransom. IMO the market is now a sitting duck...

[jeeps]

So so true about all the comment, unbelievable! Wonder what an EA would think if he/she had her house up for sale! Would defo make em think twice, pricks!

Its gotta be them who are pushing the prices up deliberately!

[laughing_goat]

To add to my first comment;

I think there are problems with selling something that commands an emotional attachment, how many vendor get upset if they get a low(er) offer or critical feedback? Can you imagine dealing with someone in business that got upset when you tried to negociate on a price?

As FTBers are generally older these days, they are a lot more aware of what they are doing and will (generally) not allow emotions to run away with them. This is where the Expats come unstuck (IMO), they are mistaking good sence for pickiness and cheek, it doesn't help them when they celibrate this attitude on their forum. They also fail to see their buyer as a customer, many look down on the buyer as someone 'a step behind them', this is a grave mistake. When I bought a flat a few years ago, the vendor did this to me, she learned the hard way that I wasn't a nieve fool. The valuer from the bank valued the place at £10,000 under the price I'd been convinced by the EA and vendor it was worth. The EA and vendor both phoned me to tell me this happens a lot and I should make up at least half the difference (£5,000+) and that I was effectively getting a bargin. I refused and she was forced to sell at the price the valuer valued it at.

I agree the Expats have a point about being able to afford their next place, but this is their problem, the buyer of their home should not be funding their move. If you wanted a bigger home, you either save, get a larger mortgage, or both. The rise in value of your home is swallowed up in the rise in value of your new home. It seems like the norm these days to expect to get some kind of payment for simply sitting on an asset for a period of time. I heard a story of someone not taking offers on their house because they needed to get the asking price to pay off credit card debts!

I think society in general expects too much, I think that I should pay for my home, it should not pay for my lifestyle. Unfortunately to many home owners think the opposite.

If there are any Expats reading this, please do not take offense, it isn't intended. It is merely the point of view of someone who is being asked to part with a huge amount of money and struggling to justify it.

LG

P.S. I really didn't intend to write this much.

Edited November 3, 2005 by laughing_goat

[jeeps]

I heard a story of someone not taking offers on their house because they needed to get the asking price to pay off credit card debts!

P.S. I really didn't intend to write this much.

Lol, laughing_goat, theres a few of these monkeys in Bolton at the mo, really does my back in when I see ads for houses saying offers not accepted - fixed price- having a laugh ain't ya!

Though agree with others, do love going to vendors and explaining my position and hearing them try to wangle their way with justification

[Brian Potter]

Well after a few days of viewings with my younger bro, its had to be said that there are so many disallusioned vendors out there. Firstly the vendors perspective, the EA told me its worth this much, i.e 10-15% overprice. Ok, so you are numb, hows this then- my bro has £50k as a deposit, has a solicitor waiting to go and the mortgage is also ready, plus can move within the next 4-5 weeks, why can people in Bolton not wake up and smell up the coffee. It is about being realistic, you've made a huge gain anyway!

All he wants is a 4 bedroom detached for around £200k!!! If any vendors are reading this and want to stay away from idiot EA's give us a shout.

As you can see doing me nut in at mo!

Jeeps,

I too live in Bolton and the prices are just nuts. I was recently in the South East and can honestly say that prices up here rival those. Its been pure gold rush. The prices people have been paying over the past couple of years defy belief.

I hope people like jam butties - cos thats all they can afford after the mortgage payments!

[libitina]

This is another one, initially on at £475,000 then reduced to £399,995 after about 6 weeks. No other house on the street has sold for more than £220,000 (according to nethouseprices), why can't they just face reality and stop being greedy?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-456...pa_n=1&tr_t=buy

What strange shaped rooms....

Maybe they mewed to be able to extend it and can now only afford cheap furniture from Ikea and Argos (see photo's), therefore they can't affprd to drop the price....??

[Guest pioneer31]

Vendors are idiots

They wont sell now for £200k but they'll hold out 6 - 12 months and then HAVE to take £180k

[jeeps]

Jeeps,

I too live in Bolton and the prices are just nuts. I was recently in the South East and can honestly say that prices up here rival those. Its been pure gold rush. The prices people have been paying over the past couple of years defy belief.

I hope people like jam butties - cos thats all they can afford after the mortgage payments!

Brian, don't get me started, thinking of sticking an advert in the Evening News asking for properties just stating that can complete within 2-3 weeks but will offer you 20% less than market value. Lets see how many desparados want cash then!

[Guest pioneer31]

Jeeps,

I too live in Bolton and the prices are just nuts.

Me too

There are properties up for £100k that I wouldn't house my dog in

[jellybean]

Maybe they mewed to be able to extend it and can now only afford cheap furniture from Ikea and Argos (see photo's), therefore they can't affprd to drop the price....??

It's the day glow white UPVC that adds that touch of class. The cheapest of everything. Dont supose it matters when they can ask that sort of money for what is to my eye's an abomination.

[StandupBcounted]

..thinking of sticking an advert in the Evening News asking for properties just stating that can complete within 2-3 weeks but will offer you 20% less than market value. Lets see how many desparados want cash then!

Thats a great idea, if he is intent on buying. The more media advertising and coverage of this type of thing the better. Though please don't use the term '20% less than market value' as this would be a contradiction in terms. How about something like:

"Serious non investment buyer, waiting for realistic priced 4 bedroom property. Mortgage approved, no downward chain, can complete ASAP. Serious vendors with a realistic grasp of current market values please contact......."

[New Bear]

What strange shaped rooms....

Maybe they mewed to be able to extend it and can now only afford cheap furniture from Ikea and Argos (see photo's), therefore they can't affprd to drop the price....??

IMO there are three reasons why sellers are not dropping prices (or not enough to revive market volumes). 1) Most home owners have little or no idea how the housing market works. They are not aware or have forgetten about cyclical movements. They are used to an environment of rising prices and will only believe or remember that prices can rise as well as fall when that has already started to happen. The range of market signals of which they are aware is very limited.

2. These signals are are, in any case, still mixed and/or ambiguous. Most people hear only the spin put on them by VIs. There has been little evidence (yet) of a sustained decline in prices. The talk is of a "slow" market (not a falling one) and this gives sellers hope that the market will "pick up" and prices will plateau and maybe rise a little. On the other side there are enough buyers, also ignorant of housing market economics/cycles, still being tempted into the market at these prices to sustain the hope of stable or rising prices.

3. There are a significant group of owners who are in so much debt that they believe they cannot afford to sell except at market top prices. They will not sell until they see consistent evidence of decling prices - some of them not even then because they will be so paralysed with fear. Many will be repossessed or go bankrupt first.

All this adds up to saying that house price deflation unwinds slowly and we are only at the start of the (for some, very painful) process.

[jeeps]

Thats a great idea, if he is intent on buying. The more media advertising and coverage of this type of thing the better. Though please don't use the term '20% less than market value' as this would be a contradiction in terms. How about something like:

"Serious non investment buyer, waiting for realistic priced 4 bedroom property. Mortgage approved, no downward chain, can complete ASAP. Serious vendors with a realistic grasp of current market values please contact......."

Cheers pal,

Sounds good to me pal!

[Nelly]

Thats a great idea, if he is intent on buying. The more media advertising and coverage of this type of thing the better. Though please don't use the term '20% less than market value' as this would be a contradiction in terms. How about something like:

"Serious non investment buyer, waiting for realistic priced 4 bedroom property. Mortgage approved, no downward chain, can complete ASAP. Serious vendors with a realistic grasp of current market values please contact......."

Thats very well put indeed, good shot that man.

[Bedsprings]

What are you on about - they've got black granite worktops - that's classy that is... and a range cooker.