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mad'un

Can You Advise? Getting A Bit Nervous...!

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I have done some searching on the forum, particularly in classics, and there is some good info but could you please offer your 2p worth? (i think this is a potential situation for many people on here?)

Background:

I STR last September and now have a reasonable 60k "deposit" in a savings account.

I have a decent job (over nat' av) at the mo, my wife works part time - soon to finish work we think after the arrival of our 2nd child. I have no sound reason for thinking this, but I work in and around a broad section of UK industry and I am sensing that things are about to get worse FAST.

Question:

If things DO get worse: I lose my job, and as in the early 90's it becomes hard to get employed again - as I understand it I would have to claim JSA :o , rent would be assisted etc etc but how can I make sure that we wouldn't have to use our "deposit" to subsidise ourselves?

(I know there is an ethical argument here, but I feel strongly that we shouldn't be penalised for being careful and debt-free)

At present the account is in my name - If it is in my wife's name would that make a difference?

Can i pass the money to family? I am not willing to lie or evade - but I will try and avoid! :ph34r:

I don't want to be a complete sad-sack, I just want to be prepared in case.

All comments welcome, thanks!

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I can sympathise with people who are told to use their savings.

You take care of money, and pay your taxes and then they make you pay when your

unemployed, whilst Mr & Mrs Chav have spent spent spent.

There is no justice for savers.

Saying that. I do think that if you have a certain amount saved you should have to use some of it.

I know others will disagree.

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I can sympathise with people who are told to use their savings.

You take care of money, and pay your taxes and then they make you pay when your

unemployed, whilst Mr & Mrs Chav have spent spent spent.

There is no justice for savers.

Saying that. I do think that if you have a certain amount saved you should have to use some of it.

I know others will disagree.

I agree with that - fairness dictates that I should be prepared to use some of the proceeds from the house price inflation, I would just want to be able to not lie by saying "I have no savings". Savings not in my name = Clean conscience.

Sneaky? Maybe :P

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If you bought gold or silver, would that still be classed as savings I wonder?

If you bought an expensive work of art, or a car(no good coz they devalue) or something similar that you could resell later on an be fairly confident about getting your cash back this could work.

Do you have savings? No.

Investments? No.

Only a painting and a bar of gold.

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Mad'un

If you've enough NI contirbutions the first 6 months of any JSA claim is contibutions based and therefore not means tested, ie your savings won't come into the assessment. After 6 months you would move to income based JSA which is affected by capital/savings/disposable assets.

Your wife would be included on your claim so passing assets to her would not help. Putting money into other family members name carries with it tax implications and is not guaranteed to solve your problem either.

Transferring assets nearly always leaves a paper trail and depriving yourself of capital/assets in order to make or maintain a claim to benefit is fraud.

The 6 month threshold is in my opinion not long enough for people who have paid there way for most of their lives but thats the way it is at the moment.

If you own property and claim JSA you would not be expected to sell it to realise any gain, after the initial qualifying period you can get up to 100% oy your mortgage interest paid whilst in receipt of JSA.

Hope that helps.

Ps

Tips on how they find out about your stash would require you crossing my palm with silver!

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I was having a similar discussion about this in another thread.

Someone was recommending people to commit benefit fraud by not declaring any savings.

Whatever you do, do not do this.

The reason is that the inland revenue know what interest a person is receiving, and the benefits agencies can cross reference to find out who is defrauding them.

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Thanks guys, Just confirmed everything I know really. I wouldn't commit fraud or lie, and I guess I wouldn't cry too much if I had to use some of the stash. Gold sounds like a great idea, but according to some on here, purchases over 5k invoke govt / IR interest plus there is the security issue and uncertainty. I reckon I would consider buying PROPERTY (only kidding :D )

I would buy art (studied at art college - bit of a buff) or a few older cars I know won't devalue too much.

I feel a bit guilty really for worrying about this when you see the situation in places like Zimbabwe - parents there are watching their children starve to death :( :angry:

Thanks for the advice - lets hope it doesn't get quite that bad

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I have done some searching on the forum, particularly in classics, and there is some good info but could you please offer your 2p worth? (i think this is a potential situation for many people on here?)

Background:

I STR last September and now have a reasonable 60k "deposit" in a savings account.

I have a decent job (over nat' av) at the mo, my wife works part time - soon to finish work we think after the arrival of our 2nd child. I have no sound reason for thinking this, but I work in and around a broad section of UK industry and I am sensing that things are about to get worse FAST.

Question:

If things DO get worse: I lose my job, and as in the early 90's it becomes hard to get employed again - as I understand it I would have to claim JSA :o , rent would be assisted etc etc but how can I make sure that we wouldn't have to use our "deposit" to subsidise ourselves?

(I know there is an ethical argument here, but I feel strongly that we shouldn't be penalised for being careful and debt-free)

At present the account is in my name - If it is in my wife's name would that make a difference?

Can i pass the money to family? I am not willing to lie or evade - but I will try and avoid! :ph34r:

I don't want to be a complete sad-sack, I just want to be prepared in case.

All comments welcome, thanks!

If unemployment kicks in high then a good way to protect yourself is too learn a new recession proof trade, ie a Locksmith or Barber.

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Question:

If things DO get worse: I lose my job, and as in the early 90's it becomes hard to get employed again - as I understand it I would have to claim JSA :o , rent would be assisted etc etc but how can I make sure that we wouldn't have to use our "deposit" to subsidise ourselves?

(I know there is an ethical argument here, but I feel strongly that we shouldn't be penalised for being careful and debt-free)

At present the account is in my name - If it is in my wife's name would that make a difference?

Can i pass the money to family? I am not willing to lie or evade - but I will try and avoid! :ph34r:

I don't want to be a complete sad-sack, I just want to be prepared in case.

All comments welcome, thanks!

Buy gold for cash in amounts smaller than £5,000 from different merchants, no more than £10,000 from the same merchant over a rolling 12 months period. In this way they don't have to report you.

If you buy smaller amounts up to a couple of k worth, most merchants won't even ask you for proof of ID so you can give them a false name.

250 gold britannias (about 8 kilos) are worth in excess of 60k. These will be 10 rolls less than 1.5 inches in diameter and less than 3 inches tall, which can be easily stored at home or in any safe place of your choice.

Note cash withdrawals in excess of a couple of k (not sure what the limit is exactly) will be reported by your bank. So you might want to get the cash out in smaller chunks.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
If you buy smaller amounts up to a couple of k worth, most merchants won't even ask you for proof of ID so you can give them a false name.

I've posted this question in the gold coins thread but it may also be relevent here.

I like the idea of not leaving a paper trail, which would be impossible buying over the Internet or by mail order.

Chard (Blackpool) who I believe did not previously request identification for over the counter purchases, now say on their website that:

Identification (Except for Export Sales)

We are legally obliged to obtain and retain identification records for every purchaser.

Baird & Co. have been mentioned as not requesting ID for buyers calling into their shop, has anybody bought from them recently who can confirm this?

I also notice that ATS Bullion don't mention ID for cash purchases (http://www.atsbullion.com/home.php)

I'm assuming that Chard's decision is part of a general tightening up on possible sources of money laundering (my accountant required photo-ID before taking me on for the same reason).

cgnao, do you think that it's worthwhile exercise buying gold in amounts of £1000 to £2000 by mail order or would you only ever feel secure buying in person, for cash?

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I've posted this question in the gold coins thread but it may also be relevent here.

I also notice that ATS Bullion don't mention ID for cash purchases (http://www.atsbullion.com/home.php)

I'm assuming that Chard's decision is part of a general tightening up on possible sources of money laundering (my accountant required photo-ID before taking me on for the same reason).

cgnao, do you think that it's worthwhile exercise buying gold in amounts of £1000 to £2000 by mail order or would you only ever feel secure buying in person, for cash?

i recently purchased 18 maple leafs from baird without showing any id as it was under 5k. above 5k they wanted id.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
i recently purchased 18 maple leafs from baird without showing any id as it was under 5k. above 5k they wanted id.

Cheers debtfree.

Did they ask for anything at all (name, address)?

Edited by Bart of Darkness

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Cheers debtfree.

Did they ask for anything at all (name, address)?

orignally i ordered 20 and it was over 5k. he told me to bring some id. So, i thought ' oh, ok, i'll but 18 then'

he did mention that alot of people buy under 5k because of this reason.

When i turned up, i just gave them the cash and told them my name and address... vaguely ;)

no id show at all. nothing.

hope this helps.

Edited by debtfree

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Guest Bart of Darkness

Cheers debtfree, that info could come in handy as I might be taking a trip Londonwards sometime soon, to somewhere quite close to Baird's & Co.

Just have to see what happens to prices in the meantime.

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I bought from ATS Bullion a couple of months ago (they were slightly cheaper than Bairds) , Krugers and a couple of Britannias, total about £3500. I paid in cash and while the girl went to get the coins she gave me me the receipt to fill out :D any name at anywhere you like with no questions :P

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Guest Bart of Darkness

I bought from ATS Bullion a couple of months ago (they were slightly cheaper than Bairds) , Krugers and a couple of Britannias, total about £3500. I paid in cash and while the girl went to get the coins she gave me me the receipt to fill out :D any name at anywhere you like with no questions :P

Nice one nobody, it's good to know these things. ;)

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gold realy scares governments, its the perfect way to hide wealth, thats why they make you unlike anything else there is declare your spending.

This is how i do it.

i purchase amounts very regular from 3-4 coin dealers who i now know well and who understand me too, i pay cash and i deposit the money directly into there bank account( i trust them ive been dealing with them a ling time), i usually buy like 400-500 pounds worth at a time in sovereigns.While doing so i buy the odd tube of silver eagles or 1kg bar silver or junk usa coinage as i go along off ebay ect.

Once again i always pay cash thus there is no record of it, and i know the guys dont keep records, see people sell single coins all the time and no-one registers single coins in any book with anyone.

Doing it like this i can accumulate a fair amount, and i reckon you could get yourself 50k worth with a year.

When you deciede to sell it dont realy matter too much, people have a right to collect things through there life and sell them as personal belongings tax free and no need to say where the money came to purchase them realy, for all the tax man knows you coulda been buying 1000 pounds worth of coins for the last 30 years, or yer old fella left you some of them in his will and you added a few more to the collection.This is how i will get around the selling and turning my hidden cash into liquid legal cash.

You cold also go to coin shows and buy up a few coins off each table, that kinda thing there are many ways to do it, the golden rule is always pay cash, if your taking it from the bank then take it a few 100 a day every day, for all they know your a gambler or like partying, youve a right to privacy how you spend your own money its no-one elses buisness.This will get you around the large withdrawls.

And be upfront with your dealer explain to him you want no paper trail, these guys know this most of there customers like to do it this way for many reasons, one being many are worried the government might ban the public owning gold in the future, so tell him that.

Dont buy from the bigger dealers ie ats,chards,baird ect, stick to coin dealers not bullion dealers, bullion dealers will definetly insist they keep a record.

If anyone needs any good dealers for this let me know, i know a place you can take your pick of around 12 dealers not one that hasint been established less than 20 years.ones with 100% ratings for 1000s of sales.infact they depend on guys like me that they give a good deal too telling guys like you to go there , thats how it works word of mouth.

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If anyone needs any good dealers for this let me know, i know a place you can take your pick of around 12 dealers not one that hasint been established less than 20 years.ones with 100% ratings for 1000s of sales.infact they depend on guys like me that they give a good deal too telling guys like you to go there , thats how it works word of mouth.

Thanks for the advice. I was wondering how I'd get my cash back out of gold...

Care to post any London suggestions here?

Or should I mail you?

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gold realy scares governments, its the perfect way to hide wealth, thats why they make you unlike anything else there is declare your spending.

This is how i do it.

i purchase amounts very regular from 3-4 coin dealers who i now know well and who understand me too, i pay cash and i deposit the money directly into there bank account( i trust them ive been dealing with them a ling time), i usually buy like 400-500 pounds worth at a time in sovereigns.While doing so i buy the odd tube of silver eagles or 1kg bar silver or junk usa coinage as i go along off ebay ect.

Once again i always pay cash thus there is no record of it, and i know the guys dont keep records, see people sell single coins all the time and no-one registers single coins in any book with anyone.

Doing it like this i can accumulate a fair amount, and i reckon you could get yourself 50k worth with a year.

When you deciede to sell it dont realy matter too much, people have a right to collect things through there life and sell them as personal belongings tax free and no need to say where the money came to purchase them realy, for all the tax man knows you coulda been buying 1000 pounds worth of coins for the last 30 years, or yer old fella left you some of them in his will and you added a few more to the collection.This is how i will get around the selling and turning my hidden cash into liquid legal cash.

You cold also go to coin shows and buy up a few coins off each table, that kinda thing there are many ways to do it, the golden rule is always pay cash, if your taking it from the bank then take it a few 100 a day every day, for all they know your a gambler or like partying, youve a right to privacy how you spend your own money its no-one elses buisness.This will get you around the large withdrawls.

And be upfront with your dealer explain to him you want no paper trail, these guys know this most of there customers like to do it this way for many reasons, one being many are worried the government might ban the public owning gold in the future, so tell him that.

Dont buy from the bigger dealers ie ats,chards,baird ect, stick to coin dealers not bullion dealers, bullion dealers will definetly insist they keep a record.

If anyone needs any good dealers for this let me know, i know a place you can take your pick of around 12 dealers not one that hasint been established less than 20 years.ones with 100% ratings for 1000s of sales.infact they depend on guys like me that they give a good deal too telling guys like you to go there , thats how it works word of mouth.

like the sound of that,just need to be sure the product is kosher.can you weigh the coins/bullion youself to be sure?

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that's really interesting. however i think if I am unemployed for more than six months I will take any job I can get - factory work, call centre - anything. or was it so bad in the early 90s that it was impossible to get ANY work? i don't remember.

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Little less glamorous but if you were to purchase a UK investment bond with say Prudential in joint names then this is viewed as a life assurance contract and as such is certainly not disclosable as an asset under the "16k" rules. Can be surrendered at any time and is currently paying 5% net with no further tax to pay for a basic rate taxpayer.

Also a little less risky on the downside than gold.

Worth some research.

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that's really interesting. however i think if I am unemployed for more than six months I will take any job I can get - factory work, call centre - anything. or was it so bad in the early 90s that it was impossible to get ANY work? i don't remember.

it was bad when i left school 3/4 of my class went straight to the dole queue, the others had fathers in the know to get them a start.Also ya start to find the work that is there pay's so poorly you are no better working that unemployed, thats what i found most worked out.Today that is similar for minimum paid jobs out there hence instead of better wages the companies are importing foriegn labour.

When a recession hits again you will probably find there will be more jobs advertised in the job centre in poland than in the job centre in the uk for british jobs.

people cut everything they can to survive and wages are one of the first to go.

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if you buy a cheap car, CLASSIC and restore... then you are pursuing a hobby, that holds no value... ;)

Non chavs are allowed hobbies,

after all are, chav's plasmer screens included in their asset appraisals?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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