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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

I am a 30 year old first time buyer and am going to jump to a 4 bed house as they are not much more money than a crappy 1-2 bed flat in bristol.

4 bed house £200-£220k - £1000 month for 25 years

2 bed flat £180k-200k - £950 month for 25 years

I figure if it goes pear shaped i can live longor/happier stuck in NE in a 4 bed house than a 2 bed flat.

ril

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My friends seem to be unaware that there is any real problem, they ALL have 3 bed semi's/terraces, they are ALL on less than me. They saved up a few grand and bought over 5 years ago or were given a couple of K by thier folks.

I get the old "its a ladder you start on the bottom rung" speech, even though apart from 1 of my friends they all bought 3 bed houses as FTB'rs.

I usually wind the conversations up with comments like "So do i use the money i have now to buy a lotus elise or use it as a deposit on a flat" Usually puts it into perspective.

Edited by theChuz

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Amazing that is.

Watford

£249,950 for a two bed flat in a decent area.

£500,000 - £650,000 for a decent 4-5 bed detached.

It is decent that is the key word, though. Your £250k would buy you a reasonable size house in a cr*ppy part of Watford, but would be nowhere near it in the better parts of town.

I think that ril was comparing a flat in the expensive part of Bristol with a house in a cheaper part.

I have found that a lot of flats tend to be relatively more expensive (£/sqft), partly because they are located more centrally and people are prepared to pay more for the convenience.

This is fast changing with all of the new build 'executive' apartments that are going up now, many of which have the high price tag, but are located on old brown-field sites two miles from the nearest town centre!

Edited by FTB1

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I am a 30 year old first time buyer and am going to jump to a 4 bed house as they are not much more money than a crappy 1-2 bed flat in bristol.

4 bed house £200-£220k - £1000 month for 25 years

2 bed flat £180k-200k - £950 month for 25 years

I figure if it goes pear shaped i can live longor/happier stuck in NE in a 4 bed house than a 2 bed flat.

ril

Makes sense, can also rent out rooms if the pips begin to squeak.

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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

I am afraid this is the more selfish side of human nature coming out. You will notice this more

in SE England (Home Counties) and the closer you get to Central London.

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It is decent that is the key word, though. Your £250k would buy you a reasonable size house in a cr*ppy part of Watford, but would be nowhere near it in the better parts of town.

I think that ril was comparing a flat in the expensive part of Bristol with a house in a cheaper part.

I have found that a lot of flats tend to be relatively more expensive (£/sqft), partly because they are located more centrally and people are prepared to pay more for the convenience.

This is fast changing with all of the new build 'executive' apartments that are going up now, many of which have the high price tag, but are located on old brown-field sites two miles from the nearest town centre!

I am looking at things in the same area, Both below are within 200 meters of each other (There are loads of other example's):

2 bed flat Squires Court Bedminster Parade, Bristol, From £194,500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-721...a_n=11&tr_t=buy

3 bed house Southville,BRISTOL ££224,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-982...pa_n=4&tr_t=buy

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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

What really pisses me off is how house prices have devalued peoples sense of money and value.

In 1998, straight out of uni I looked at buying in Bristol. 3-bed terrace for £52K. I only needed £2500 deposit (5%)

I've now got a savings pot of £30K which in 1998 would have been loads - it would have been 60% of that house and I'd have a mortgage of only £20K on a 3-bed house now.

Fast forward to today, that house is now £160K and my £30K deposit leaves me with a whacking £130K mortgage. Inflation has been benign in that time and yet because my £30K deposit still leaves me with a £130K mortgage today it doesn't feel like £30K is that much.

What a difference 7 years makes.

Buying the same house with £30K deposit

1998: 20K mortgage

2005: 130K mortgage

So the house price has gone up about 3 times but the mortgage required as actually gone up over 6 times.

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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

We get this sort of comment from my other half's father quite alot. He thinks that we should be willing to move to another part of London and live in a studio just to 'get on the ladder'. We now do have what we consider a decent deposit, but as others have pointed out, with the huge prices, it doesn't make as much impact as you feel it should. As we live in London, I have no illusions about buying a four bedroom house, but do want a 2-bedroom flat (with a garden if possible) in an area where I'm not scared to walk home after 7 o'clock.

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I am looking at things in the same area, Both below are within 200 meters of each other (There are loads of other example's):

2 bed flat Squires Court Bedminster Parade, Bristol, From £194,500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-721...a_n=11&tr_t=buy

3 bed house Southville,BRISTOL ££224,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-982...pa_n=4&tr_t=buy

That is interesting. Is that typical for the area, or do you think that those new-build flats are commanding some sort of premium over standard 2 bed flats?

In my area, I find the cost of buying a 2 bed flat in a decent part of town is about 20% cheaper than a 3 bed semi 1.5 miles out of town. That same 3 bed house in the decent part (if you could find one), would be at least 60-70% more expensive than the flat.

I always find it amazing how trends differ in different parts of the country. That £195k wouldn't be too far off what you would pay for a 2 bed flat around here (SW London suburb), but the £225k would be miles away from buying a similar house.

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I am looking at things in the same area, Both below are within 200 meters of each other (There are loads of other example's):

2 bed flat Squires Court Bedminster Parade, Bristol, From £194,500

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-721...a_n=11&tr_t=buy

3 bed house Southville,BRISTOL ££224,950

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-982...pa_n=4&tr_t=buy

Southville is probably one of the more expensive areas in Bristol. Lived there briefly.

Bedminster is a hole filled with the kind of people you see on Trisha.

Problem is the areas are neighbours so be careful that the Southville property isn't really in Bedminster. The true Southville area is very very small.

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Agree entirely with the OP. We were very lucky and bought our first house just after I turned 30, around the time of the bottom of the last housing crash. We could comfortably step in and buy a 3-bedroom house with drive and garage and skipped over the one-bedroom "starter homes" and flats. Pure luck, as I was at the right age and met the right girl, but it's meant we could raise a family without moving or taking on ridiculous debt. Of course, we're totally priced out of being able to upgrade to a larger place now so that ladder serves nobody except those exiting the market :angry: - and even worse, even though my salary is 50% more than it was then, we couldn't even afford to buy our current house right now. Bonkers. As I tell my friends - who look at me as if I'm a loon - "I can't wait for the value of my house to collapse along with all the others".

Edited by mikthe20

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We sold to rent because we noticed that houses were much better value (£/per square foot) than flats and that 3 bed houses were not that much more than 2 bed flats. This is presumably because the flats market has been more ramped up by BTL.

In fact BTL probably explains a lot of the property market rise over the past 7 years.

It seems entirely sensible to get out / keep out of the most ramped-up part of the market (studios, 1 beds, 2 beds) and save up to get in higher up the "ladder.

This strategy has worked so far because the market has softened (we're in north London). It should carry on working unless the market suddenly takes off again, although we noticed that house prices were moving more slowly than flat prices, even when the market was very strong.

Edited by geranium

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It's an unfortunate psychological battery that these people are executing upon us because they're now sh1t scared, having drawing inferences from our continued refusal to enter the market.

You don't even need to SAY anything!!!!!

I get this with my bought-in-2000-for-80K same-aged friends quite a lot

I'm afraid I'm not in a position to allay their fears about the market because, as I'm sure many estate agents would leap to point out, I'm not a professional.

;)

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I am 30, my girlfriend is 24. My logic is simple and usually silences any doubters:

on our current wages we would need an extraordinary mortgage to buy somewhere even vaguely habitable. This means - up to 40yrs, till I'm 70 & Being dangerously exposed to any IR rises over a 40yr period. Plus, we could never stop working to raise children, and if one of us lost our jobs then <plop>

but more tellingly for the "get on the ladder" types:

if prices do continue to go up, place #2 will be out of reach and we are trapped in crappy flatsville forever.

if prices come down, we are trapped in NE and hence crappy flatsville forever.

Never mind over-intellectualising things, it's a simple no-brainer, and even the averagely intelligent FTB seems to have sussed this one out now. And this is what will bring the house of cards down... in painfully slow motion.

I take heart though from some of the stories here... of buying at market bottoms. By 2009-10 say, I would hope to have a hefty deposit to set against a very affordable good & sizable property. Of course, there are no guarantees, but I like so many of my peers have little to gain by entering the market now.

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Do you always get accused of not wanting to start at the bottom of the housing ladder by smug home owners?

I experience this alot, but they reject my reasoning out of hand that it makes no difference if I have £2k deposit or the £50k deposit I actually have.

I should start at the bottom!! (In a "Know your place" kind of tone)

What can I say to these people to add strength to my reasoning? I may be a FTB but I'm actually a FTB with a fair bit of cash and at my age (30) I can't really afford to be starting at the bottom.

There seems to be a great deal of bitterness that I am withholding my money from the market place and that I DARE to buy anything more then a one bedroom flat for £150k

Just say that you are too 'rock and roll' to doing something as sensible and responsible as owning a house.

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hhmmmmm

FrozenOut, it's up to you what you aim for but I live on Andrew Reed Court in Watford. Hardly a bad area and you don't have to pay 250k for a 2 bed flat here.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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