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Debunking The Myth Of The Hardworking Btl Landlord

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Q.The peak of equity withdrawl was?

A. 3rd quarter 2003.

Q. What was the money principally used for once the exotic holiday and the his and hers Rolex were purchased?

A. Deposit on a 2 bed new build flat.

Q Which profit period, in general terms, is most likely to see a correction?

A. The last 2 years.

This nonsense that the majority of BTL players are sitting on a small fortune is a nonsense. Most arrived badly geared for a party where the only food on the table was left over curled up tongue butties (sandwiches). A further correction of 12-15% from the peak will see nearly all equity made in the last two years evaporate. It has not taken: guts, foresight, intelligence and market savvy to board the gravy train that looped and headed straight back to the station, it was a base function of greed. It also appeared for a short period of time as the lazy man`s way or getting something for nothing. It has not been difficult to obtain a mil or two credit recently. If on paper it looked as though you were worth 200K it was relatively straightforward. When did filling in apllication forms, advertising vacant shells and employing the services of a builder (who has seen it all before) replace genuine hard work and foresight?

There will be those who make a success from property and good luck to them, however, it will not be the crowd who piled into the BTL market over the past two years, unless they can fund the gaps between voids and reduced yields and continue to do so for at least a decade. The guys I know that have made property their business continually tell me its a sector you have to be in for 20-30 years to make it work. The real trick is to spot the cycles at the bottom of the up. Problem is the gap between each house price boom is growing. The next one might not be for another 20 years. The law of diminishing returns not withstanding, if everyone is on to it, better find something else to do, and quickly....just realised it`s too late for most ;)

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I think I detect some missed the boat bitterness there.

As a BTL landlord I have increased my portfolio in 2005 and intend to buy more in 2006. Purely because I am getting a positive yield and I don't anticpate prices dropping.

Thank God I did not listen to the fools who told me to sell my BTL in 2003 / 2004.

Average house price Eng and Wales www.landregistry.co.uk

Q1 2004 WAS £166,404

Q1 2005 WAS £183,486

Q2 2005 IS £184,924

Luckily when all the sheep were saying "crash...crash..." I held my nerve and picked up some more bargains in 2005. Once every realises the HPC has been cancelled in 2006 no will negotiate on price as the FTB rush back in.

Hope that Helps.

PG

Edited by property guru

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As a BTL landlord I have increased my portfolio in 2005 and intend to buy more in 2006. Purely because I am getting a positive yield and I don't anticpate prices dropping.

Hope that Helps.

PG

Glad to hear it, as a guess I would say that your portfolio is based in the north or Scotland, am I right?

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Glad to hear it, as a guess I would say that your portfolio is based in the north or Scotland, am I right?

Nope my portfolio is mainly based in Luton & Chesterfield. I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K.........and guess what people were saying to me then "thats a lot of money,houses are overpriced" "is that 9K price sustainable" "what if the economy gets worse" "what if house prices crash" etc etc

Somethings never change there are always doom mongers saying don't buy what if that ,what if this happens......

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I think I detect some missed the boat bitterness there.

As a BTL landlord I have increased my portfolio in 2005 and intend to buy more in 2006. Purely because I am getting a positive yield and I don't anticpate prices dropping.

Hope that Helps.

PG

No not a boat, a Ship of Fools. No interest in being a property tycoon. I have a very modest mortgage on a 3 bed semi bought 9 years ago, only managed to finish the refurb. out of earnings two years ago, and a detached bungalow which has no debt on it. I rent out the latter to an infirmed relative on a peppercorn. No bitterness, a sense of injustice. I`m not going to flame you buddy and I`m not going to get involved bantering with you either, not my style. However, that post you have just made is nonsense, I reckon my 10 year old lad lies better than you, and he is hopelessly honest. none of the guys I know who have really made it big in property would be on here carping. It`s you that`s obviously hurting man, stop making such a fool of yourself.

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Nope my portfolio is mainly based in Luton & Chesterfield. I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K.........and guess what people were saying to me then "thats a lot of money,houses are overpriced" "is that 9K price sustainable" "what if the economy gets worse" "what if house prices crash" etc etc

Somethings never change there are always doom mongers saying don't buy what if that ,what if this happens......

Glad you could afford the 9k, and the properties you bought this year. Genuinely, I don't have an issue with BTL folk.

But perhaps the "doom mongers" are in fact "unable to afford buy at current prices".

I don't think anyone is suggesting houses should be cheap. Houses are always a lot of money whenever you buy. If you can buy - and this is the current problem for a generation of employed, earning, tax-contributing 20-30somethings.

[incidentally - what was the salary multiple you used to buy your first house?]

Edited by stillill

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Nope my portfolio is mainly based in Luton & Chesterfield. I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K.........and guess what people were saying to me then "thats a lot of money,houses are overpriced" "is that 9K price sustainable" "what if the economy gets worse" "what if house prices crash" etc etc

Although Luton is not as bad as elsewhere in the south east your yeild must still be pretty marginal, a quick look through rightmove suggests something like 6% gross is achievable, after agent's fees, repairs & vacant periods there can't be much left to cover the mortgage interest.

That said prices in Luton look pretty depressed compared with the surrounding area which will keep the yields up.

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Don't get me wrong guys.

If you ask me: Do I agree a hard working policeman, teacher,office worker,bus driver should be able to buy a decent 3 bed semi family home in a ok area of the back of 3.5 X 1 salary ? I say yes, yes,yes.

If you ask me is there going to be a HPC: Alas I have to say No (not to be awkward) but simply based on all the evidence out there(economy,interest rates,mortgage approvals,immigration, demand and dozens of other factors etc etc) I just don't believe there will be one.

Hope that Helps.

PG

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Don't get me wrong guys.

If you ask me: Do I agree a hard working policeman, teacher,office worker,bus driver should be able to buy a decent 3 bed semi family home in a ok area of the back of 3.5 X 1 salary ? I say yes, yes,yes.

If you ask me is there going to be a HPC: Alas I have to say No (not to be awkward) but simply based on all the evidence out there(economy,interest rates,mortgage approvals,immigration, demand and dozens of other factors etc etc) I just don't believe there will be one.

Hope that Helps.

PG

I don't have time to debunk all of your arguments in detail, instead can I suggest you follow this link:

Andrew Farlow

The papers are pretty heavy going but the first two in the house price series contain all that you need to know.

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I think I detect some missed the boat bitterness there.

Thank God I did not listen to the fools who told me to sell my BTL in 2003 / 2004.

Average house price Eng and Wales www.landregistry.co.uk

Q1 2004 WAS £166,404

Q1 2005 WAS £183,486

Q2 2005 IS £184,924

Luckily when all the sheep were saying "crash...crash..." I held my nerve and picked up some more bargains in 2005. Once every realises the HPC has been cancelled in 2006 no will negotiate on price as the FTB rush back in.

Hope that Helps.

PG

Hi PG,

first of all, it's good to have a bit more balance to these debates, your bullish stance makes things more interesting.

However, if you're going to use stats to try and justify your point, then please fill in the gaps:

Q4 2003 was £163,584 (volume = 301405)

Q1 2004 WAS £166,404 (volume = 243914)

Q2 2004 was £175,401 (volume = 299986)

Q3 2004 was £187,971 (volume = 309101)

Q4 2004 was £182,920 (volume = 182920)

Q1 2005 WAS £183,486 (volume = 183486)

Q2 2005 IS £184,924 (volume = 184924)

hmm, so average national prices are currently below Q3 2004 rates by 1.6% (not a great deal, but that's a loss, even before inflation)... oh and volumes have also sharply dropped... doesn't look quite so great now does it.

I hope you're not gambling on short - medium term house price inflation, cos it doesn't look likely.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
first of all, it's good to have a bit more balance to these debates

How can PG add balance to a debate when he's clearly unbalanced?

Edited by Bart of Darkness

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I totally agree with Property Guru that now is the perfect time for him to invest heavily in BTL.............go on PG make my day..........may you RIP

Edited by make my day

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I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K

Wow :o , my old Reading 3 bed terraced in 1972 was £4k (per the deeds) . Recently sold for £160k .

What kind of a Palace-Semi did you get for £9k in 1970 ?

As this is anonymous (apart from dns tracking one supposes) can you tell us your cost and current estimated value of this multitude of properties ?

I'd be really interested :rolleyes:

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Nope my portfolio is mainly based in Luton & Chesterfield. I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K.........and guess what people were saying to me then "thats a lot of money,houses are overpriced" "is that 9K price sustainable" "what if the economy gets worse" "what if house prices crash" etc etc

Somethings never change there are always doom mongers saying don't buy what if that ,what if this happens......

Ah, the old 'doom-mongers' saying nasty things to you, eh...

Nobody is denying that there have been MASSIVE gains to be made in property. The trick is getting the TIMING right. Buy in a trough and your capital gains are healthier. It's not rocket-science.

However, your investment policy is based on the principal that HPI will continue at a level that makes FURTHER investment worthwhile. Is it?

And, whilst proudly publishing increases in Land registry figures for a selective 3 quarts, you also state that you "held your nerve and picked up some more bargains in 2005". So if you've picked up a few 'bargains', would that not suggest a market in decline? Those 'bargains' are the new market level, PG. No doubt you'll be chuffed to pick up a few more next year when the prices drop further...

;)

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Hi PG,

first of all, it's good to have a bit more balance to these debates, your bullish stance makes things more interesting.

However, if you're going to use stats to try and justify your point, then please fill in the gaps:

Q4 2003 was £163,584 (volume = 301405)

Q1 2004 WAS £166,404 (volume = 243914)

Q2 2004 was £175,401 (volume = 299986)

Q3 2004 was £187,971 (volume = 309101)

Q4 2004 was £182,920 (volume = 182920)

Q1 2005 WAS £183,486 (volume = 183486)

Q2 2005 IS £184,924 (volume = 184924)

hmm, so average national prices are currently below Q3 2004 rates by 1.6% (not a great deal, but that's a loss, even before inflation)... oh and volumes have also sharply dropped... doesn't look quite so great now does it.

I hope you're not gambling on short - medium term house price inflation, cos it doesn't look likely.

I think you meant to say that average national prices were below Q3 2004 in Q2 of this year, not "currently". We're now in Q4, and the Land Registry won't be publishing those figures until February next year, so you have no data on what prices are like now.

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Don't get me wrong guys.

If you ask me: Do I agree a hard working policeman, teacher,office worker,bus driver should be able to buy a decent 3 bed semi family home in a ok area of the back of 3.5 X 1 salary ? I say yes, yes,yes.

If you ask me is there going to be a HPC: Alas I have to say No (not to be awkward) but simply based on all the evidence out there(economy,interest rates,mortgage approvals,immigration, demand and dozens of other factors etc etc) I just don't believe there will be one.

Hope that Helps.

PG

Property Guru,

You have shown your ignorance on this topic once and for all.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do my friend....we'll get em' out on the table and see who's is the biggest. Just me and you mate.

PM me and we'll exchange some info and hopefully meet up.

As a landlord for over 20 years I can say with absolute certaintity you are spouting utter sh!t.

I'll bring my Range Rover or Merc for the meet and you bring whatever you've got and we'll have a look at some figures.

My guess is you're an estate agent. Prove me wrong.

Regards

slater.

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I think I detect some missed the boat bitterness there.

As a BTL landlord I have increased my portfolio in 2005 and intend to buy more in 2006. Purely because I am getting a positive yield and I don't anticpate prices dropping.

PG

Hey thats the kind of thing Marketeer was saying on singingpigs last year (while stealthily offloading his portfolio)!!!

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:lol: where you been hiding slater?

hey theres a 'slaters' thats just opened up in town , nothing to do with you is it? :ph34r:

Aye up Chuz!

I've been mighty busy recently.

Alls back to normal now so you'll see lots of bad grammar and lots of......full stops!

Its good to be back...and back to normal.

I hope Property Guru decides to take me up on the meet and I might just invite Charlie down as well. I'd love to meet the old codger! we'd get on like a house on fire... and we could sit and laugh at Property Guru spouting nonesense about the 70's 80's and 90's crash...its all well and good to know the history, but me and Charlie saw it first hand (him even more so, I'm only 38 and Charlie is 399!)

where is Charlie?

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Aye up Chuz!

I've been mighty busy recently.

Alls back to normal now so you'll see lots of bad grammar and lots of......full stops!

Its good to be back...and back to normal.

I hope Property Guru decides to take me up on the meet and I might just invite Charlie down as well. I'd love to meet the old codger! we'd get on like a house on fire... and we could sit and laugh at Property Guru spouting nonesense about the 70's 80's and 90's crash...its all well and good to know the history, but me and Charlie saw it first hand (him even more so, I'm only 38 and Charlie is 399!)

where is Charlie?

Well its good to have you back mate, charlie is around, although its 10pm now he's probably asleep in his chair. I got a feeling he will be up at some point soon to go to the toilet, i better leave it there though or he will moderate my a** out of the door :lol:

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:lol: where you been hiding slater?

hey theres a 'slaters' thats just opened up in town , nothing to do with you is it? :ph34r:

CHUZ,

You've got to let me know what they sell!

I might be able to sue them for infringement of my name!!!

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CHUZ,

You've got to let me know what they sell!

I might be able to sue them for infringement of my name!!!

Actually i think its quite a posh coffee shop - well it looks posh from the outside, ive not been in there. I dont dare go in wearing my 4 year old Fila's :lol:

EDITED:

Tell ya what though if it starts to go downhill and gets that dirty trashy look i let you know, action can be taken then

Edited by theChuz

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Nope my portfolio is mainly based in Luton & Chesterfield. I bought my first BTL in 1970 a 3 bed semi for 9K.........and guess what people were saying to me then "thats a lot of money,houses are overpriced" "is that 9K price sustainable" "what if the economy gets worse" "what if house prices crash" etc etc

....well I hope you know luton well.it is falling like a lead balloon!!...I KNOW,MY MUM LIVES THERE.

I have lots of old copies of the herald,LoS and I would not intentionally make a purchase there.I f***ing hate the place.

28 years there was well more than I could take.I was glad to escape!...but for what it's worth I do peruse the property sections of the rags when I'm over for sunday dinner to see what a lucky escape I had!

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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