'grey Students' Set To Take Universities By Storm

[winkie]

Yes, but you will not be taken seriously by employers unless you have either that piece of paper or lots of relevant experience (which you probably won't easily get without said piece of paper). And that's in the private sector.

In the public sector you pretty much need that piece of paper full stop no matter your level of skill. IME.

....yes, I don't agree with it......take for example a simple carers job, helping people stay in their homes and lead an independent life as much as possible...they required this qualification and that qualification for something as simple as that....to get what they required you had to pay upfront and travel 30 miles to the uni that could provide the training.....if you didn't have the piece of paper they would take you on minimun wage £6.20 per hour and pay 35p per mile your own transport....what a joke.

Why can't employers make you complete their own test to show you are not stupid, thick, uncaring etc?....just a ploy to pay the absolute minimum for a hard job that has little respect in the working world....then you wonder why our elderly are treated so poorly.....the system is madness.

[SleepyHead]

Maybe these old age pensioners could do a degree in 'Caring for the Elderly'?

Edited July 1, 2012 by sleeping dog

[winkie]

Maybe these old age pensioners could do a degree in 'Caring for the Elderly'?

....no sticking a postcard up in the local newsagents window must be a better easier way.

[Norbert]

Can anyone explain to me what the point of the OU is in this day and age? In fact what the point of formal universties is except for an elite of exteremely intelligent future PhDs?

Seriously, what do you actually get for your money? Some random person standing in front of a group of people rehashing the same crap year-after-year. No decent one-to-one time, no personal tutoring. In many cases, little actual lecture time.

Unless you're dealing with expensive machinery or dangerous/expensive materials, there's nothing you can't study at home with the help of a few books and videos.

So tell me, what exactly do you get from university.... other than STDs and a drug problem?

And with the OU you don't even get the lectures, do you? Surely An OU degree is worth £500-£1000 for the (some bespoke) books and £50-£100 for each exam. It beggars belief how they can fleece you for thousands of pounds. Where is this money going exactly?

[aussieboy]

Big 5 Accountancy/Consultancies and IT System integrators (clients being pretty much any large companies or public sector).

'Officially' (as in the HR part of the process), in the companies I'm familiar with there has been no differentiation across institution for quite a number of years - just degree grade. 'Unofficially', each individual interviewer/panel member may have their own values influencing decisions. Most probably give more weight to Oxbridge/Russell as it's an easy way of assuming someone has to be bright (to get there). In the past I've given a fair amount of weight to OU degrees as the individual has demonstrated they are more capable of self-organisation/motivation than at a bricks and mortar where you're being chased to complete work.

I'm it varies massively by employer/individual recruiter.

Interesting. My experience in finance (medical is a bit different... no OU med degrees so far) was one of serious intellectual snobbery where even a Russell Grp degree was a bit on the nose.

Interesting re the big four. I know of quite a successful (young) partner here in Asia who boasts a BTec as their highest degree. As you say - looks like it varies.

[Democorruptcy]

Ladbrokes, William Hill, etc. should advertise this in their betting shops. Encourage people to get a loan they cannot pay back to have a bet on something.

[Frank Hovis]

So tell me, what exactly do you get from university.... other than STDs and a drug problem?

As has been mentioned, a piece of paper that allows you through the barriers to entry of certain jobs.

This may not be the way it should be, but it is the way is. And when recruiting you want some kind of quality filter as you're not going to sit down and chat to 300 people individually.

[Democorruptcy]

Is this means tested or purely in income?

Can a mature student that has savings but no income take a loan out for the fees and not need to pay it back unless they earn £21k?

I did an HND as a mature student, could I top it up to a degree in something that might get me a visa to go to another country?

[spyguy]

Interesting. My experience in finance (medical is a bit different... no OU med degrees so far) was one of serious intellectual snobbery where even a Russell Grp degree was a bit on the nose.

Interesting re the big four. I know of quite a successful (young) partner here in Asia who boasts a BTec as their highest degree. As you say - looks like it varies.

The degree gives you a start in life. It does not determine how you'll do.

A degree lasts 3-4 years. You'll work for another 45-50.

A good degree gives you a lot of choice and opportunity at 22.

Then you have to work and prove yourself.

In my experience, the better Universities/grade give a better yield of good workers. It does not guarantee.

I've worked in places where people with Poly degrees have been kept and Oxbridge let go - and not cos they were cheaper.

Strange you should mention the Big 4.

Accountancy firms use the vague promise of 'good graduates' as a reason to pad out there fees on what is normally mundane transactions - or complex stuff that falls to bit.

And I'll stay quite on MBAs and management consultants.

[spyguy]

Is this means tested or purely in income?

Can a mature student that has savings but no income take a loan out for the fees and not need to pay it back unless they earn £21k?

I did an HND as a mature student, could I top it up to a degree in something that might get me a visa to go to another country?

I like HNDs.

A good one is great as you can get a lof of information of a subject that normally has some practical value.

I like the OU modular qualifications - you start at Diploma than keep going to get a degree.

I think the snobbery mentioned relates to people looking down at people doing humanity degrees whilst in jail.

[@contradevian]

Is this means tested or purely in income?

Can a mature student that has savings but no income take a loan out for the fees and not need to pay it back unless they earn £21k?

I did an HND as a mature student, could I top it up to a degree in something that might get me a visa to go to another country?

An HND used to allow you a shortened (2 year?) degree (usually at the same establishment) in the same subject. Many colleges for example would offer an HND Business Studies and a Degree in Business Studies. YMMV doing a degree in another institution.

[Authoritarian]

The problem isn't the degrees, its that the student loan book is underwritten by the UK taxpayer. ie. Ponzi Debt QE Financed!

It's more ponzi debt, to prop up the bubble. The young have woken up, and realised there aren't enough jobs. So they aren't entering the ponzi scheme anymore. So HMG in now trying to draw in anyone they can. Bernie Madoff style.

Why does a 65 year old need to do a degree? I mean really, c'mon. It's a waste of resources. The country does not need OAP graduates.

Great post, if the country was in rude financial health with a prosperous future ahead of us I genuinely wouldn't mind if OAPs and teenagers alike want to waste 2-3 years pursuing 'higher' education, but as we know this isn't what its about. The financial leeches in the government/university sector are just sticking their heads in the sand and attempting to keep their ponzi schemes running at all costs, without thinking about the implications for the wider economy. Its this sort of parasitic thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, I wish The Powers That Be would just wake up.

[winkie]

Great post, if the country was in rude financial health with a prosperous future ahead of us I genuinely wouldn't mind if OAPs and teenagers alike want to waste 2-3 years pursuing 'higher' education, but as we know this isn't what its about. The financial leeches in the government/university sector are just sticking their heads in the sand and attempting to keep their ponzi schemes running at all costs, without thinking about the implications for the wider economy. Its this sort of parasitic thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, I wish The Powers That Be would just wake up.

What is worth more investing it B grade rich overseas students or A grade poor UK students?

[Authoritarian]

What is worth more investing it B grade rich overseas students or A grade poor UK students?

Ah yes, our world famous 'knowledge economy'. Well if mega-rich overseas parents are happy to pay a premium to have their children educated here that's one thing I suppose, but lets not kid ourselves, on the whole British education has been reduced to pile of Politically Correct, elfensafety-mad, box-ticking garbage. Sooner or later we're going to be found out.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Authoritarian

[Buccaneer]

Well apart from the fact that you no longer get free bus travel at 60 (it is tied to womens pension age which is rising) that all people living on their own regardless of age get the 25% reduction in their council tax for the single persons discount( full Council tax benefit is not age dependent and is means tested) you are completely correct. I suppose getting one out of your three claims right is not too bad. Dont let a few facts get in the way of a good ageist rant

You are, however completely right about the last point. This is just an attempt to suck (sucker ?) more people into the formal education system. I think it it is designed to tap the locked in equity of retirees property. In effect the education ponzi is trying to feed off the property ponzi.

2.5 out of 3. A free bus pass would currently be available for at least some of the period of the course and full time students are exempt from council tax if they live alone.

The major issue is the extension of the ponzi.

[Norbert]

As has been mentioned, a piece of paper that allows you through the barriers to entry of certain jobs.

This may not be the way it should be, but it is the way is. And when recruiting you want some kind of quality filter as you're not going to sit down and chat to 300 people individually.

You're missing my point. I was making the point that we don't need universities to teach people. It's an aniquated and very expensive concept and is ultimately a disservice to the majority of people who take a degree, as it creates so much debt.

I would like to see almost all students study in an OU model, albeit without the ridiculous expense of the OU. My other point being that OU fees are utterly ludicrous and I'm dumbfounded how they can justify them.

Cheap, well supported on-line courses are the way to go, with minimal loans available to those people who don't have internet access.

I honestly get the impression from my experiences, that many FE and HE establishments exist solely for the purpose of providing employment to underpaid educators so an army of people can manage them on 40K+.

Universities undertaking real, valuable research are another matter.

[Frank Hovis]

You're missing my point. I was making the point that we don't need universities to teach people. It's an aniquated and very expensive concept and is ultimately a disservice to the majority of people who take a degree, as it creates so much debt.

I would like to see almost all students study in an OU model, albeit without the ridiculous expense of the OU. My other point being that OU fees are utterly ludicrous and I'm dumbfounded how they can justify them.

Cheap, well supported on-line courses are the way to go, with minimal loans available to those people who don't have internet access.

I honestly get the impression from my experiences, that many FE and HE establishments exist solely for the purpose of providing employment to underpaid educators so an army of people can manage them on 40K+.

Universities undertaking real, valuable research are another matter.

I don't think I was. I was pointing out that barriers to entry are paper qualifications from the right places, not unvalidated knowledge. Your point being that the latter should be sufficient, my point being that it isn't.

[Norbert]

I don't think I was. I was pointing out that barriers to entry are paper qualifications from the right places, not unvalidated knowledge. Your point being that the latter should be sufficient, my point being that it isn't.

...And my point is that there are other ways to validate knowledge than the current university system

[Democorruptcy]

An HND used to allow you a shortened (2 year?) degree (usually at the same establishment) in the same subject. Many colleges for example would offer an HND Business Studies and a Degree in Business Studies. YMMV doing a degree in another institution.

Yes I took an HND at Wakefield college and was then offered the chance to top it up to a degree at Sheffield Hallam University but declined the offer. Looking back it was a mistake not to do it.

[MarkG]

I was pointing out that barriers to entry are paper qualifications from the right places, not unvalidated knowledge. Your point being that the latter should be sufficient, my point being that it isn't.

Get rid of the 'Human Resources' industry and we can go back to hiring the right people rather than the people with the right paperwork.